Article: Would a Six-Man Rotation Make Sense?

[jorgenswest]

Someone is going to figure out how to utilize the pitching staff to get the numbers back down to an 11 man staff.

 

The decrease in bench spots has taken away true platooning from baseball.

 

Look at the 1991 Twins roster. They must have had a 10 man staff at times. Look at the possibilities on the bench. You have a true platoon at 3B. You have bench bats in Larkin, Bush, Leius/Pags and Munoz. They still had a spot for a back up catcher in Ortiz and middle infielder in Newman. How would the Twins have configured that roster if they had to carry 12 or 13 pitchers? They would have to have Newman and Ortiz. They were lucky to have a starting corner OF who could move to CF allowing them to carry a guy like Bush. If it is a 13 man staff, that is it. No Leius, Larkin or Munoz.

 

Let's be the team that figures out how to increase the bench and reduce the size of the pitching staff. The first step is to utilize and reconfigure the bullpen very differently.

[Kwak]

It seems like a poorly conceived idea. The Twins lack quality in the starting pitcher category, therefore it make more sense to reduce the number of SPs. Use a 4-man rotation, limit to 5 innings and have 4 designated middle/long relief (one for each) to pitch 2-3 innings. Add 3 setup/extra innings guys and one closer for a total of 12 pitchers.

[Boom Boom]

Someone is going to figure out how to utilize the pitching staff to get the numbers back down to an 11 man staff.

 

The decrease in bench spots has taken away true platooning from baseball.

 

Look at the 1991 Twins roster. They must have had a 10 man staff at times. Look at the possibilities on the bench. You have a true platoon at 3B. You have bench bats in Larkin, Bush, Leius/Pags and Munoz. They still had a spot for a back up catcher in Ortiz and middle infielder in Newman. How would the Twins have configured that roster if they had to carry 12 or 13 pitchers? They would have to have Newman and Ortiz. They were lucky to have a starting corner OF who could move to CF allowing them to carry a guy like Bush. If it is a 13 man staff, that is it. No Leius, Larkin or Munoz.

 

Let's be the team that figures out how to increase the bench and reduce the size of the pitching staff. The first step is to utilize and reconfigure the bullpen very differently.

 

A couple things TK did differently in 1991 was that he a) allowed his pitchers to throw more than 100 pitches if they could, and he brought Aguilera in for saves in the 8th inning if it was a platoon advantage.

[johnnydakota]

I fully expect Nick Blackburn to be spoon fed innings this spring training(softer minor leaquers)so his numbers appear better then they should, giving the Twins an exscuse to bring him north, so there is 1 spot that will be opening up in may or june for Pelfrey or Gibson

[ashbury]

I can see two main objection to a 6-man: a) it takes innings away from your best, or two best, or three best starters (not an issue for a last-place team like the Twins who lack a defined ace), and it takes away an available relief arm, making it usually necessary to add another pitcher to the staff (already discussed).

 

So I think the main time it would make sense to go this route is if you have a rotation composed entirely of 5.00 ERA innings-eaters - guys who can be counted on to usually give you seven innings at which point they've given up 2-to-5 runs, which you then turn over to the bullpen depending on how much you are ahead or behind.

 

A rotation of fragile-armed starters is kind of the opposite of that criterion.

 

Also, I would prefer to do it with a manager who was more comfortable with an 11-man staff (when using 5 starters), and that is a rarity these days. If Gardy would go to the 6-man rotation only if he had 13 pitchers on the roster, and given his preference for 3 catchers, it would mean also the batting lineup needs to be nearly set with productive regulars at every position, which is far from the case, again this shaping up as a last-place team.

[krada1212]

I'm just afraid that not even 5 of these guys will be serviceable, let alone 6. Maybe try it out for the first couple of weeks to weed out the worst guy.

[darin617]

You can view the page at Twins Daily - Would a Six-Man Rotation Make Sense?

 

So if the Twins would go with a 6 man rotation they would have to add 3 more starters.

Diamond

Worley

Pelfrey

FA

FA

FA/ Dudeno?

[noonespecial]

Since Twins pitchers are limited to 100 pitches they should go with a 4 man rotation and keep 2 in reserve as needed. Our current staff would hit 100 pitched by the 6th inning. With off days there is a reduced need for a 5th starter. The 2 extras could be used in relief and then as starters when they play a bunch of games without a break. I wish Gardy and Andy would get more creative.

[noonespecial]

Since Twins pitchers are limited to 100 pitches they should go with a 4 man rotation and keep 2 in reserve as needed. Our current staff would hit 100 pitched by the 6th inning. With off days there is a reduced need for a 5th starter. The 2 extras could be used in relief and then as starters when they play a bunch of games without a break. I wish Gardy and Andy would get more creative.

[TheLeviathan]

As for the 6 man rotation approach, if you had 6-7 #3 starters, I might buy in to it because you could shave your bullpen by one arm. But when you've got 6-7 back-end starters, you need to keep a full contingent of bullpen arms..

 

Yeah...pretty much this.

[twinsnorth49]

I've got to side with going with the best 5, that may change from time to time at the back end but taking away starts from your top 3, whoever they might be, isn't giving you your best shot of winning.

 

I'm also not sure how going with a six man rotation saves your bullpen with less arms available.

[kab21]

The problem is that a 6 man rotation almost certainly means that the team would have 13 pitchers on the team. The bullpen isn't going to be used less and if you are concerned about injuries then you shouldn't be randomly using any of these pitchers out of the bullpen. Pick 5 starters and have Gibson/Harden ready to go in AAA.

[mako83]

Why not have Diamond and Worley every five days and have the other four rotate thru that so a rotation within a rotation deal.

[Shane Wahl]

A few things:

 

Gardenhire is never doing anything besides a traditional rotation, but that aside . . .

 

I don't think the 6-8 pitchers (or more) up for this are equal. Diamond would have to regress pretty damn far for that, and Worley is certainly up there with him. After that it drops to Correia aside from improvements from Hendrik, Deduno, Walter, BLACKBURN, Vasquez, and DeVries, or a hopeful breakout from Hernandez. All until Pelfrey (who, again, isn't good by any means) and Gibson, who is in the first group and might be at the top.

 

It would seem that a 4-man rotation is a better idea, especially given pitch counts . . . and that fact that aside from the first inning debacle, Twins pitching seem to break down around inning 5 and 6 (though Liriano was a big culprit for both). This would add to the bullpen and create for more situational matchups which might actually be good. Now if someone is really cruising along and goes deep into or completes a game, they just get an extra day.

 

I am not sure how a team struggling to come up with 5 legitimate starters would INCREASE the size of the rotation instead of decreasing it to create more lefty/righty situations.

[fairweather]

How do you make a 6 man rotation out of 2 1/2 starting pitchers? Worley and Diamond are the 2 and Gibson the half. So far this off season we've heard that the Twins were going to go hard at starting pitchers. Then Deduno was taken off the MLB roster and I said then that makes sense because the Twins CLAIM that they are going to add 3 MLB pitchers better than Deduno. Well to make a long explanation short I just don't see how Pelfrey in his first year after TJ surgery or Correia are better than Deduno or DeVries for that matter. I'm hoping the Twins still take a flyer on Brandon Webb.

[Shane Wahl]

How do you make a 6 man rotation out of 2 1/2 starting pitchers? Worley and Diamond are the 2 and Gibson the half. So far this off season we've heard that the Twins were going to go hard at starting pitchers. Then Deduno was taken off the MLB roster and I said then that makes sense because the Twins CLAIM that they are going to add 3 MLB pitchers better than Deduno. Well to make a long explanation short I just don't see how Pelfrey in his first year after TJ surgery or Correia are better than Deduno or DeVries for that matter. I'm hoping the Twins still take a flyer on Brandon Webb.

 

Yes to Webb because why not? Deduno or DeVries available for 1/10 the cost and probably the exact same result as Correia. I agree that it is much easier to get 4 starters out of this bunch than 6.

[Nick Nelson]

I myself have said Gibson should probably start in the minors, but the more I think about it, the more I think he won't. He was essentially major-league ready when he got hurt, and last year he pitched basically the entire second half, working his way back up to Triple-A then making six starts in the AFL.

 

The Twins are going to want to take their best five starters north from Ft. Myers. I'm pretty sure they view Gibson as one of those five and he'll likely reinforce that in spring training.

[howeda7]

Assuming they have 12 pitchers either way, I'm not a fan of a 6-man rotation unless 2 of Pelfrey, Gibson and Harden are in the rotation at once. I'd much rather have Corriea/Blackburn as a long man in the bullpen and have a quicker hook when a guy is having an off night.

[Curt]

"It's easier to find four good pitchers than five."

 

Earl Weaver on why he had a four man rotation rather than five, which all other teams had moved to.

[glanzer]

Given what Gardy has to work with, I'd say a 9-man rotation might make sense. For the first time since I started cheering for the Twins in 1993 I have no hope at all going into the season.

[jlovren]

As completing 6 innings might be a task also, there would still need to be the large bullpen. That would leave the bench short. A regulars day off would be called playing DH that day.

 

 

With the current make up of the rotation, we do not currently have any guys to take us into the 7th-8th innings on a regular basis. I totally agree that in order for a 6 man rotation to work you would need to carry 12 pitchers. Our bullpen has been inconsistent and we simply don't have that kind of staff where we could sustain any positive results. I think we need to take a cautious approach with Gibson, Pelfrey and Harden (if he even makes the club) to ensure there are no set backs from recovery.

[IdahoPilgrim]

An intriguing idea. I suspect that, right now, everything is on the table. They don't really know what they have to work with right now; they'll use spring training to assess that. My guess is they customize their pitching plans based on what they see in February and March.

 

And who knows? Perhaps the season won't be as bad as everybody is anticipating? Look at the Vikings. Nobody expected them to be even close to contending, and they made the playoffs. I'm not predicting post-season play for Gardy and the boys, but it would only take a couple of the gambles the Twins have made this offseason to work out to make things interesting.

 

Just as a rule of thumb, it's when everybody else is predicting disaster that I look for upside surprise.

[h2oface]

I still miss the 4 man rotations.

[TheLeviathan]

I think someone should do a follow-up to this entitled "Would playing three of our middle infielders every day make sense?"

 

Same principle,

[Shane Wahl]

I think someone should do a follow-up to this entitled "Would playing three of our middle infielders every day make sense?"

 

Same principle,

 

Haha, I agree. I don't understand how a 4-man rotation, given this crop of "talent" wouldn't make more sense. Obviously, Gardy is going with a 5-man rotation, but the principle matters. The Twins have 2 goodish pitchers and several varying question marks. Keep the question marks low at 4, maximize the utility of the bullpen (which would be 8 guys), and keep me sane.

[Mike Sixel]

Right, two man rotation, and a lot of 2-3 inning guys.