Why We Can't Have Nice Things

[shortround81]

First Zach Plesac gets Ubered back to Cleveland for going out with friends. Now this in Oakland. You're embarrassing us, MLB.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/as-outfielder-defends-bench-coach-ryan-christenson-after-apparent-nazi-salute-213617303.html

[Vanimal46]

I don’t understand the anger towards the A’s coach. Looking at the video it’s obviously unintentional.

[shortround81]

In 2020 how does an adult with a basic high school education NOT know what that was. Even after Hendricks tried to pull his arm down, he did it again.

[Vanimal46]

Not the first or last time different people see a video and come up with different conclusions....

 

Breaking: Gyms all over the US becoming Nazi Centric using 10 lb weights to mask their Nazi Salutes

[Squirrel]

 

Not the first or last time different people see a video and come up with different conclusions....

Breaking: Gyms all over the US becoming Nazi Centric using 10 lb weights to mask their Nazi Salutes

That's a really bad comparison and you know it.

 

While I'm not sure he meant it, momentarily 'forgot', or whatever ... I'd like to get to a point where something is so ingrained it's not something you 'forget', but maybe that's impossible. I don't know. But, I think it is a big deal. I'm not saying the guy should be tarred and feathered, but I also hope that he really learned something from his momentary thoughtlessness and understands that and never does it again. The minute we start levying excuses such as 'Oh, he didn't mean it' doesn't really ingrain the idea of 'don't ever do it again' and just why it isn't good to momentarily forget such things.

[Minny505]

This is a complaint looking for a problem. Very McCarthyist. Let's not.

[Vanimal46]

 

That's a really bad comparison and you know it.

 

While I'm not sure he meant it, momentarily 'forgot', or whatever ... I'd like to get to a point where something is so ingrained it's not something you 'forget', but maybe that's impossible. I don't know. But, I think it is a big deal. I'm not saying the guy should be tarred and feathered, but I also hope that he really learned something from his momentary thoughtlessness and understands that and never does it again. The minute we start levying excuses such as 'Oh, he didn't mean it' doesn't really ingrain the idea of 'don't ever do it again' and just why it isn't good to momentarily forget such things.

 

I'm sure he's learned a valuable lesson not to raise his arm without bending his elbow going forward. 

[shortround81]

 

I'm sure he's learned a valuable lesson not to raise his arm without bending his elbow going forward. 

 

I'm proud of you for using sarcasm to minimize a hurtful and racist gesture. 

[Vanimal46]

Thanks!

[twinbythebay]

I really don't think this needs to be a big deal, and I really hope it doesn't become one. Does anyone actually think that he's secretly a Nazi or that he meant to throw up a racist gesture? I think it's good that they acknowledged it and clarified that it wasn't done on purpose, and I would hope that he can manage to not do it again in the future. No punishment necessary, from where I sit.

 

Now, Plesac on the other hand... 

[shortround81]

 

I really don't think this needs to be a big deal, and I really hope it doesn't become one. Does anyone actually think that he's secretly a Nazi or that he meant to throw up a racist gesture? I think it's good that they acknowledged it and clarified that it wasn't done on purpose, and I would hope that he can manage to not do it again in the future. No punishment necessary, from where I sit.

 

Now, Plesac on the other hand... 

 

One doesn't have to be a Nazi to use that gesture. Whether he meant to be racist or not he should've known that wasn't okay. Know better. Do better. 

[twinbythebay]

 

One doesn't have to be a Nazi to use that gesture. Whether he meant to be racist or not he should've known that wasn't okay. Know better. Do better. 

Agreed. But again, by acknowledging and apologizing, I do think they've handled it the right way so far. Do you think additional punishment would actually do anybody any good?

[Squirrel]

 

I really don't think this needs to be a big deal, and I really hope it doesn't become one. Does anyone actually think that he's secretly a Nazi or that he meant to throw up a racist gesture? I think it's good that they acknowledged it and clarified that it wasn't done on purpose, and I would hope that he can manage to not do it again in the future. No punishment necessary, from where I sit.

 

Now, Plesac on the other hand... 

 

I think 'big deal' has different connotations. As I said, I don't think he needs to be tarred and feathered or made an example of, so, no, not a big deal in those terms. However, I think it is a big deal in terms of ... I hope he's learned a lesson about thoughtless, racist gestures and not to do it again. That's it for me. These things shouldn't be a 'go to' or 'common place' for anyone, and it doesn't sound like it is for him, at all ... but it's time we get past the 'Oh, he didn't mean it that way' as an excuse to let it go by. I mean, perhaps most of us have done the Nazi 'heil' at some point in our lives, jokingly ... and maybe it's time we learn, that some things just shouldn't be made a joke, because of what they truly represent. 

[shortround81]

 

[...] but it's time we get past the 'Oh, he didn't mean it that way' as an excuse to let it go by. 

 

Exactly. I'm glad he apologized. Although, I do feel like the "I thought I was doing a karate chop" excuse seemed like a weak explanation. Do I think punishment would do any good? Yes. It'll show MLB will not let something like this go by. Does he need to be banned for the season? No. But, maybe a game suspension and sensitivity training (which I know is probably corporate BS that people don't get a lot out of) would send a message across the league racism; unintentional or not, will not be tolerated.  

[jud6312]

My opinion is that it was neither accidental or malicious.

 

I don't think he's a secret Nazi, but I also don't think he was clueless as to what he was doing. I'm in the same general age group as him, and I think it's pretty universally known that that's one of those things you just don't do.

 

If I had to venture a guess, he thought he was making a joke and being funny with his buddies and got caught by the cameras. 

 

Definitely shouldn't make it less offensive to the Jewish community and he should absolutely be "shamed" - to an acceptable level.

[bighat]

 

I don’t understand the anger towards the A’s coach. Looking at the video it’s obviously unintentional.

Agreed. Clearly just a brain fart by the A's coach.

 

He should have apologized and did. Read the comments from the players and coaches who know this guy.

 

Anyone who has hailed a cab has maybe unintentionally, once in their lives, accidentally realized that they were making this pose and then quickly altered their body language and hoped nobody saw them. I think this was one of those things.

[mikelink45]

In this time of so much anger and the Nazis showing up all over the country it is not excusable and I am glad he was punished.

 

[shortround81]

 

In this time of so much anger and the Nazis showing up all over the country it is not excusable and I am glad he was punished.

 

Yep. Not that it would've been okay in previous years, but this year especially people need to be more cognizant of how "harmless jokes" are actually very harmful to those who have been in positions of being oppressed. 

[nicksaviking]

I have no idea if it occurred to him what that gesture looked like, but it was already a foregone conclusion that a 46-year-old was going to screw up the new secret handshake all the young guys were doing.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

One doesn't have to be a Nazi to use that gesture. Whether he meant to be racist or not he should've known that wasn't okay. Know better. Do better.

 

That gesture is used ritually at church services now. Didn’t used to be.

[Trov]

My analysis of looking at the video.  I see the coaches standing waiting for team to come off the field.  They cannot high five per rules, but they can forearm bump.  If you look at the coach in front of the coach in question he has his arm up and bent across his chest.  As players come in he extends his arm away from his chest hitting players coming off the field in celebration.  The player that moves the coaches in question arm to put across his chest similar to the coach in front. 

 

This appears to be a planned celebration that either was poorly executed by the bench coach to do the forearm bumps where he was not moving it in and out like the coach in front of him, or he intentionally was doing it, either as a joke of how it looks when doing it, or not as a joke.  Either way if it was intentional it was in bad taste.  If it was a poor execution of the celebration, I hope the team reevaluates their choice of ways to substitute the high five. 

 

If you have an issue with the bench coach, you should also have an issue with the coach standing in front doing similar, but not as exaggerated motion.    

[notoriousgod71]

 

This is a complaint looking for a problem. Very McCarthyist. Let's not.

This.

[MMMordabito]

We won't get to watch the Twins tonight because some stupid cop decided he needed to unload 7 rounds into a black guy.  I'm sure the Twins and Tigers won't play, because if they do they'll be labeled racist or something.

 

Stupid cops and lemmings is the story of the day.

[Craig Arko]

 

We won't get to watch the Twins tonight because some stupid cop decided he needed to unload 7 rounds into a black guy.  I'm sure the Twins and Tigers won't play, because if they do they'll be labeled racist or something.

 

Stupid cops and lemmings is the story of the day.

Poor you.

[MMMordabito]

 

Poor you.

 

It's a meaningless gesture.  The game will just be made up the next day or next series.  Fans have already had 102 games taken away, so what's the point other than for owners to pretend like they care? Everyone is already used to a bunch of disruption by now.  If they want to do something that matters, how about make a deal with the city to fire one arbitrator for every Twins win the rest of the season?

[twinbythebay]

 

It's a meaningless gesture.  The game will just be made up the next day or next series.  Fans have already had 102 games taken away, so what's the point other than for owners to pretend like they care? Everyone is already used to a bunch of disruption by now.  If they want to do something that matters, how about make a deal with the city to fire one arbitrator for every Twins win the rest of the season?

Speak for yourself. It may be meaningless to you, but it certainly doesn't sound like it's meaningless to the players. It doesn't sound like the owners had anything to do with this either, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

[Shaitan]

 

It's a meaningless gesture.  The game will just be made up the next day or next series.  Fans have already had 102 games taken away, so what's the point other than for owners to pretend like they care? Everyone is already used to a bunch of disruption by now.  If they want to do something that matters, how about make a deal with the city to fire one arbitrator for every Twins win the rest of the season?

Just like it was meaningless to postpone a game after the I-35W collapse?

 

Community matters. It's right in the name "Minnesota Twins." When tragedies happen, communities react. This means a lot to a lot of people. I'm sure you can find something else to watch on TV instead.

[D. Hocking]

Some of the athlete interviews I have seen over this in general clearly show this is a very personal issue to some of them,   This not something they have only experienced by watching the news, and they are not making these decisions or statements lightly.

[twinbythebay]

Here's a great example of how much this means to some players. Powerful statement by Dominic Smith.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/dominic-smith-kneels-during-national-anthem

[Platoon]

 

It's a meaningless gesture.  The game will just be made up the next day or next series.  Fans have already had 102 games taken away, so what's the point other than for owners to pretend like they care? Everyone is already used to a bunch of disruption by now.  If they want to do something that matters, how about make a deal with the city to fire one arbitrator for every Twins win the rest of the season?

I guess if one thinks it’s just about a game none of this makes any sense. But It is if you think it’s about the players feeling empathy and using their status and visibility to make a statement. And as is obvious by this post, other posts, and media attention keep the issue front and center in the public eye. The players and owners can’t change years of systemic racism, but they can use their fame and name to help move the country to make that change.