I'd love to hear any rationale

[yarnivek1972]

Gonna be interesting to see the nine names chosen to be the Twins bullpen in the post season. Picture one game, and maybe two, being relief pitcher games against the Royals. At best, Odorizzi may start and pitch three innings in the finale on Sunday. I imagine they have to look at Perez again, although I would rather they did what they did with Gibson and see how he does as a middle inning relief guy.

There’s no reason to hold Odorizzi back THAT much. ALDS game one is Friday, October 4. That would be normal rest for Odorizzi.

 

I could see him throwing 70-80 pitches.

[bighat]

To keep things interesting?

[bighat]

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that Rogers should not be anywhere near the ninth inning in a close game against the Yankees. If there is a time when he should be used in a flex role, it's against the Yankees.

 

 

You'd prefer Sergio Romo throwing 85 MPH frisbees to Stanton, Encarnacion, and Judge in Yankee Stadium with a 1-run lead?  No thanks. I'm sticking with Rogers. He's had a couple bad outings but he's been the guy for most of the year. I think he can do it.
 

[Brock Beauchamp]

You'd prefer Sergio Romo throwing 85 MPH frisbees to Stanton, Encarnacion, and Judge in Yankee Stadium with a 1-run lead? No thanks. I'm sticking with Rogers. He's had a couple bad outings but he's been the guy for most of the year. I think he can do it.

 

Duffey.

[yarnivek1972]

Gregorius is having a pretty bad season and the Twins will have Smeltzer/Thorpe or Rogers on tap to get out a LHB if they really need it.

 

I'm far more worried about the 7-8 RHB mashers the Yankees with throw at the Twins 4+ times a game than a weathered Gregorius and Brett Gardner.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that Rogers should not be anywhere near the ninth inning in a close game against the Yankees. If there is a time when he should be used in a flex role, it's against the Yankees.

Gardner has been very good. And they aren’t going to use Rogers to go through the order more than once under any circumstances. So, he would never face him twice. What if you need to get him out in the 6th and then again in the 8th? I can foresee zero situations in which I would use Perez, Gibson or Thorpe. They have been terrible for more than a month.

 

And yes, I am aware that O’Rourke hasn’t pitched at the MLB level since July or anywhere at all for 2-3 weeks. I’ve been calling for him to be added since he was acquired. And I would STILL rather have him than the terrible trio.

[SpicyGarvSauce]

 

Except that the TIGERS were 4 for 10 against him. The last time he had what I would call a good outing was August 3, and even that was against the Royals. It’s blatantly clear to me that Gibson is a non-factor for the rest of the season and postseason. I’d rather Baldelli try some of the younger guys and see if they might be an option. If they put Gibson back on IL now, the 10 days will be used before the start of the ALDS and they could petition for injury replacement. Ryan O’Rourke is still around somewhere. I think I would rather have him than Gibson, Perez or Thorpe.

 

3 of those were not hit hard...that happens sometimes. He was getting BABIP'ed.

[Tomj14]

 

"Gibson can't throw his curve for strikes."

By Old Twins Cap.

 

Whether as starter or reliever that is the problem. Plus he can't spot his fast ball either. I think he should just aim for the middle of the K zone and rely on his lack of control to go to the edges. Using him in a critical situation in the playoffs is a scary proposition. 

He did throw 32 of 43 pitches for strikes last night. I only heard on the radio last night but the first inning sounded pretty good, 95/96 on the fast ball and two weak hits. The second inning was a hard hit double and another hard it ball to left, hard hit double, and grounder and a K.

Again on the radio it sounded better than the last game.

 

[laloesch]

 

To be fair, I think its quite possible his health was a factor and we don't know where he is in that process.   Maybe he is simply recovering and getting stronger.  Sounded like he was throwing in the mid 90's and he wouldn't be the first guy that wears out in extended innings so can throw harder in a short stint.    That said, I think the staff should be Berrios, Odorizzi, Rogers, Romo, May, Duffey, Graterol, Littell, Smeltzer, Dobnak, Stashak and then you hit the nail on the head on who should be on the bubble.   Pick one of Gibson, Perez and Thorpe.   I would still lean toward Thorpe but am not going to lose any sleep over the last pick as long as the first 11 are in.

 

Or maybe he's just falling back onto old habits prematurely. I vividly remember previous years were it took him the first 2-1/2 months of the season to get into the swing of things and finally start pitching decent games and winning. This is Kyle Gibson. He's a 4 or 5 starter on a good team at best IMO.

[yarnivek1972]

He did throw 32 of 43 pitches for strikes last night. I only heard on the radio last night but the first inning sounded pretty good, 95/96 on the fast ball and two weak hits. The second inning was a hard hit double and another hard it ball to left, hard hit double, and grounder and a K.

Again on the radio it sounded better than the last game.

Which would suggest that stamina is an issue.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Still hoping yankees finish with the best record so we don't have to play them the first round

Seems very unlikely at this point -- the Astros are 1.5 games up on the Yankees, *and* the Astros hold the tiebreaker over them.

 

Even if the Yankees win out -- 4 in a row, including 1 more vs Charlie Morton in Tampa and 3 in Texas including one vs Lance Lynn -- the Astros would only have to go 3-2 in their remaining 5 vs Seattle and a Trout-less (and Ohtani-less, and Upton-less) Angels team.

 

If the Yankees lose even one of their remaining games, Houston would only need a 2-3 finish to secure the top seed.

 

Not impossible for the Yankees, but not too likely either. Best start planning for NYY now.

[Miggy's Little Helper]

The situation made little sense.  You need to get the magic number down to 0 before you trust Gibson in that situation.  

 

BUT...Gibson was objectively good last night.  His control was excellent and he had true swing and miss stuff.  Did he give up a couple hard hit balls?  Yes, but the Gibby we saw last night was mighty encouraging.  If he can pitch like that, he's a valuable piece for the playoffs.  

[yarnivek1972]

It's all about finding if there's a post season role for Gibson. We are going to need long relief - Berrios can go 6 or 7 tops, Odorizzi 6 tops and Dobnak 5 or 6 tops. We;re going to need a lot of 2 to 3 inning releif appearances. Expect Rocco to audition Gibson, Perez, Smeltzer, Thorpe, and maybe even Graterol for that role. There's probably room for 2 or 3. Who gets it?

Graterol has thrown more than one inning once at the MLB level and a max of 25 pitches. So, I doubt he is being considered for a multi-inning role.

 

Can Gibson or Perez eat innings? Not if they can’t get outs. Gibson needed 40 plus pitches to get through two against the Tigers. Perez needed 50 plus to get 7 outs against the Royals. These are not guys I would allow pitch in the postseason under ANY circumstance.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Didi Gregarious and Brett Gardner are LHB.

FWIW, O'Rourke faced Gardner 3 times in our 2015 pennant race, and failed to retire him --  1 hit and 2 walks.

 

He faced Gregorious twice, giving up a fly ball to RF on a 1-0 count, and a first-pitch RBI sac bunt.

 

(Against other Yankee LHB that year, he walked McCann and gave up a 2 run HR to Stephen Drew -- although he did limit Ellsbury to a 1-for-4 line and struck out Greg Bird and Garrett Jones.)

 

O'Rourke is an interesting guy, but his viability vs LHB in the postseason is still doubtful.

 

Worth noting that May and Duffey have a comparable wOBA vs LHB batters this year as O'Rourke's career MLB line vs LHB (and probably in higher leverage too). So even O'Rourke's one potential trick isn't all that special compared to the Twins staff.

[Miggy's Little Helper]

 

Graterol has thrown more than one inning once at the MLB level and a max of 25 pitches. So, I doubt he is being considered for a multi-inning role.

Can Gibson or Perez eat innings? Not if they can’t get outs. Gibson needed 40 plus pitches to get through two against the Tigers. Perez needed 50 plus to get 7 outs against the Royals. These are not guys I would allow pitch in the postseason under ANY circumstance.

 

If you want to objectively criticize his pitching performance, fine.  But 40 pitches to get through 2 innings when you strike out 4 and give up 2 weak hits (flyball exit velo 69 and grounder exit velo 84), you are doing fine.  Good luck to anyone hitting the change last night, Tigers or not.  

[ashbury]

Which would suggest that stamina is an issue.

He said so, in a post-game interview, weeks ago.

[nicksaviking]

 

Gardner has been very good. And they aren’t going to use Rogers to go through the order more than once under any circumstances. So, he would never face him twice. What if you need to get him out in the 6th and then again in the 8th? I can foresee zero situations in which I would use Perez, Gibson or Thorpe. They have been terrible for more than a month.

And yes, I am aware that O’Rourke hasn’t pitched at the MLB level since July or anywhere at all for 2-3 weeks. I’ve been calling for him to be added since he was acquired. And I would STILL rather have him than the terrible trio.

 

Gardner is about the 8th batter in the Yankees lineup I'd be concerned about. Gregorious would be the 9th. In fact, OPS says that is exactly the case. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Gardner is about the 8th batter in the Yankees lineup I'd be concerned about. Gregorious would be the 9th. In fact, OPS says that is exactly the case. 

FWIW, Gardner has been on a tear lately -- leads MLB with 9 HR this month Also has a 1.022 OPS in September to lead the Yankees, while guys like LeMahieu, Voit, and Urshela (and Gregorious) have slowed down. .924 OPS since July 1st as well (Sano is at .949 in the same time frame).

[yarnivek1972]

Gardner is about the 8th batter in the Yankees lineup I'd be concerned about. Gregorious would be the 9th. In fact, OPS says that is exactly the case.

The Yankees have been batting Gregorious 3rd or 4th the last couple weeks. Gardner hits pretty much anywhere. Which simply indicates you can’t pitch around them, or around the guys that surround them. And both are very dangerous hitters, especially in that ballpark.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

FWIW, Gardner has been on a tear lately -- leads MLB with 9 HR this month Also has a 1.022 OPS in September to lead the Yankees, while guys like LeMahieu, Voit, and Urshela (and Gregorious) have slowed down. .924 OPS since July 1st as well (Sano is at .949 in the same time frame).

Gardner has been hot and should not be ignored but how much sense does it make to make a roster decision to counter Gardner at the expense of seven Gardner+'s also on the roster?

 

And that's my point. Focusing on one or even two Yankees LHB is missing the forest for the trees. The Yankees can kill you nine different ways. I'll focus on the eight similar ways they can kill me over the one oddity of the group when it comes to dedicating finite resources against them.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Gardner has been hot and should not be ignored but how much sense does it make to make a roster decision to counter Gardner at the expense of seven Gardner+'s also on the roster?

 

And that's my point. Focusing on one or even two Yankees LHB is missing the forest for the trees. The Yankees can kill you nine different ways. I'll focus on the eight similar ways they can kill me over the one oddity of the group when it comes to dedicating finite resources against them.

Yeah, no argument from me there. I wouldn't worry too much about rostering a LOOGY instead of Gibson or Perez, especially when said LOOGY would be Ryan O'Rourke.

[yarnivek1972]

Gardner has been hot and should not be ignored but how much sense does it make to make a roster decision to counter Gardner at the expense of seven Gardner+'s also on the roster?

 

And that's my point. Focusing on one or even two Yankees LHB is missing the forest for the trees. The Yankees can kill you nine different ways. I'll focus on the eight similar ways they can kill me over the one oddity of the group when it comes to dedicating finite resources against them.

I don’t think I’m missing the forest for the trees at all. I don’t think Gibson or Thorpe (or any other guy who isn’t far ahead of those two in the pecking order) has a chance against ANYONE in the Yankee lineup. A loogy like Perez at least might be useful against Gregorious and Gardner. So, better a loogy that might be able to be useful than a guy who IMO would be useless.

[KirbyDome89]

Maybe it's an honest tryout, although I think more likely the Twins want him on the postseason roster and if he can show even a modicum of success they'll use it as rationale for keeping him.

 

[notoriousgod71]

I will try to explain myself somewhat succinctly rather than the panicked meltdown post immediately following six beers.

 

Nothing Gibson does in the next week is going to change my opinion on whether he can help this team or not. I certainly do not want him pitching in a close game. Yes, Rocco's move "worked out" in the fact he didn't give up three runs in two innings, but it was not a quality outing.

 

The bullpen was rested after a day off so there were countless options available and Rocco didn't need to make a split second decision as the new pitcher would have had all the time he needed to get loose following an injury.

 

If you want to get Gibson some work wait for a 12-4 game to get him an inning or two. Or at least wait until they have actually clinched the division.

 

The tying run came to the plate last night and it would have been very demoralizing to blow a late inning lead to the Tigers, when you arguably went with your eighth bullpen option.

[bighat]

 

If you want to get Gibson some work wait for a 12-4 game to get him an inning or two. Or at least wait until they have actually clinched the division.

 

The tying run came to the plate last night and it would have been very demoralizing to blow a late inning lead to the Tigers, when you arguably went with your eighth bullpen option.

 

Man, I completely agree with you.

 

2 IP, 4 hits, 1 ER and the tying run came to the plate. It wasn't a quality outing. I know some people are blinded by the 4 strikeouts, but honestly that doesn't affect my opinion of what Gibby brings to the table at this point in the year.

 

I do feel sorry for the guy. He's been with the team for 6.5 years, finally became a top-tier guy last year, and all of a sudden he's found himself auditioning for the last bullpen role on a playoff team. I'm sure he and many other folks would be disappointed if he didn't make the post-season roster. But frankly I'm just not sure there's anything left in the tank for Gibby.

 

Once (IF) the Twins clinch the division, let him pitch to his heart's content.

[ewen21]

 

One of the reasons is Rocco is a terrible coach when it comes to pitching management. No reason at all to bring him in.

I am a pretty critical fan, but I don't understand the vast criticism Falvey/Levine got this offseason about "not addressing the bullpen" nor can I understand the almost nightly hand-wringing over Rocco's decisions.

 

This team was 78-84 iast year and it is quite possibly going to win 100 games.  Rip the players when they don't hustle or do the same silly things over and over again, but I can't pretend to believe I can do better than our GMs and Rocco have this year.

 

To say he made a bad decision last night is one thing.  To say he's "terrible" makes no sense to me

 

 

[BrianTrottier]

 

I don’t think I’m missing the forest for the trees at all. I don’t think Gibson or Thorpe (or any other guy who isn’t far ahead of those two in the pecking order) has a chance against ANYONE in the Yankee lineup. A loogy like Perez at least might be useful against Gregorious and Gardner. So, better a loogy that might be able to be useful than a guy who IMO would be useless.

 

That's a little hyperbolic, given that even bad BA against requires that the pitcher relieve hitters 70%+ of the time.

[notoriousgod71]

FYI, I am fine with however Rocco wants to use Gibby in the KC series now that we have clinched, but I will continue to have meltdowns if he is used in the postseason.

[Squirrel]

 

FYI, I am fine with however Rocco wants to use Gibby in the KC series now that we have clinched, but I will continue to have meltdowns if he is used in the postseason.

If it goes well this weekend, I'd keep your tranquilizers handy.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

FYI, I am fine with however Rocco wants to use Gibby in the KC series now that we have clinched, but I will continue to have meltdowns if he is used in the postseason.

Meltdowns, plural? Like, four or five meltdowns, one meltdown for every time Gibson pitches, all the way through the postseason? So like one meltdown in the ALDS, a couple meltdowns in the ALCS, and then a couple more meltdowns when...

 

You mean like that?

[yarnivek1972]

That's a little hyperbolic, given that even bad BA against requires that the pitcher relieve hitters 70%+ of the time.

In his most recent outing, Gibson retired just 60% of the hitters he faced. Against the TIGERS. That’s not good.