"Resting" players

[USAFChief]

 

How many people are watching your 10 hour work day under a thick microscope?  How many people call you out when you dog it the last 2 hours or your day?  Take an extra 10 minutes for lunch?  Not carry the max load every single time to a jobsite? 

 

And the real question is....does your company have people lined up to take your spot when your back is a little sore and can't haul as much?  A "sore muscle" or a "tweaked back" or a "strained hamstring" is the difference between making a throw, making an extra base, 5-6 MPH on your fastball..  With professional athletics, especially baseball, there is such a thin line between being a capable major league player and not.  If a guy can't run to first, he isn't playing period.  If my pitcher who throws 95, can only get 88 because of something in his arm, he isn't playing.  He isn't good enough too.  "The shucks, you don't do much, rub some dirt on it" doesn't apply because there are people who can get it done.

 

 

I absolutely hate the argument that athletes are above us and need to work harder when everything they do is live for the world to see.  Eddie doesn't hustle down to 1st on a grounder to the pitcher? We light him up on the forum.  A guy is held out of the lineup with a sore back?  We light up him in the forum.  There is no one watching me intensely right now thinking..."Wow, swainzag is posting on that dang Twins Daily site again instead of doing his work paperwork again let's get rid of him"

How is any of this relevant in any way to resting players?

[Mike Sixel]

Rest is critical for peak performance. I don't know how this is even up for debate.

[Seth Stohs]

 

Two comments on Rocco the Rester. I am not a fan of "scheduled" days off. I have read he makes out lineups a week in advance? Don't you paint yourself into a corner doing that. Keeping players happy while making out a lineup is not that easy as is. Secondly, much has been made of the catcher situation. Healthy, decent to good numbers. Is this the result of some grand plan, or is this the result of having differing splits for a RH and a LH hitting catchers?

 

I don't know if it's a week in advance, but it's certainly before every series. And I do like it. Obviously, it does can be adjusted based on injury...

 

Also, let's be honest, Rocco isn't making these decisions or even the lineups on his own. He's getting input from players, coaches, the analytics team, and even Falvey and Levine. 

 

And, as Brock pointed out above, injury has played a much bigger role in time off. Obvously they have a plan at catcher for playing that has worked incredibly well this year. Obviously Nelson Cruz, at 38, was going to get scheduled time off. Obviously keeping bench guys fresh is a goal, and that has played out pretty well too. But guys like Polanco and Kepler have played pretty much every day until not healthy. Same with Rosario. Buxton and Sano would be every day guys when healthy. 

[MN_ExPat]

They're all a bunch of wimps. Try doing construction work for 10 hours a day Monday thru Friday and 5 hours on Saturday every week for 12 months out of the year.

How much "work" do these over-paid well-conditioned athletes really do? I understand there is more to their day than just playing the game but really! Physically they don't exert themselves unless they're running on the field somewhere. Almost half the game they're sitting in the dugout. That 2 hours on the field waiting for the ball to get hit to them must be strenuous. I suppose swinging for the fences everytime can cause oblique strains and tweaked wrists, sore shoulders and pulled muscles but then maybe you should be smarter than that and not swing harder than you need to. I laugh everytime I hear someone isn't playing because they need rest. He can rest after the game and on scheduled off days.

 

RV, I’m not replying to blast you on this but I simply can’t disagree more. The amount of work these guys put in is way more than most of us realize. Granted there are the bloated air sacs who take everything for granted and make the rest of the players who give a darn look bad, but the vast majority of players have sacrificed far more than we may realize.

 

For example, my son is just a sophomore in HS but he spends about 30 to 40 hours a week on top of school (and this is just in the off-season) on training and practice. This isn’t counting the travel and games he has (for those who don’t know his “season” is year round) all because he wants to play in college.

 

Now factor in the bumps, bruises and strains he (and the big boys) get on a daily basis that he and they have to find a way to safely play with. Heck, I’ve seen my son alone take some pretty hefty bumps, bruises and stitches. So to call them “wimps” does them all a huge discourtesy and isn’t fair at all.

 

They are good athletes, but they are still human.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Because we are human and need rest. And God created the Sabbath specifically for that reason. 

and unions created Saturday!

[Cooper Carlson]

 

Next year, I hope Rocco (and the front office) recognizes the futility of "resting" players during the regular season.

Rocco has given players way too much scheduled time off, to what benefit? All you do is willingly hold your better players out of too many games.

It does little to nothing in terms of keeping them healthy, or "rested."

All it does is intentionally reduce the number of games played by your best lineup.

If Rocco and the front office knew what they were doing maybe the Twins would be winning the division! Wait.... You seem to have forgotten they know what they are doing.

[ashbury]

If Rocco and the front office knew what they were doing maybe the Twins would be winning the division! Wait.... You seem to have forgotten they know what they are doing.

One year Dave Dombrowski is sipping champagne. Less than 12 months later, he has been told his services are no longer required.

 

I'm just saying, Appeal to Authority is one of the oldest fallacies in the logic book.

 

If we have to bow to the front office and dugout's authority, there is precious little to discuss here on an internet site.

[Cooper Carlson]

 

One year Dave Dombrowski is sipping champagne. Less than 12 months later, he has been told his services are no longer required.

 

I'm just saying, Appeal to Authority is one of the oldest fallacies in the logic book.

 

If we have to bow to the front office and dugout's authority, there is precious little to discuss here on an internet site.

Ok sure, but resting players has not been a bad thing. In fact I think resting them more often might be better. The injuries this season have racked up rapidly lately and with October basically a guarantee, there is no point in running guys like Kepler and Cruz out there if they are tired or sore because we need them later.

[ashbury]

And I'd like the regulars to play 155 games, minimum. 158 is more like it, and truth be told, 162 isn't asking too much.

In 2018, 15 American Leaguers played in 155 games. six played 158, and one played 160.

 

It isn't the norm anymore.

 

Fire Rocco and get someone else, and you'd likely have similar playing-frequency choices.

 

(OK, if you're hiring and firing, you can set the hiring criteria, but you see what I mean.)

[USAFChief]

 

In 2018, 15 American Leaguers played in 155 games. six played 158, and one played 160.

 

It isn't the norm anymore.

 

Fire Rocco and get someone else, and you'd likely have similar playing-frequency choices.

 

(OK, if you're hiring and firing, you can set the hiring criteria, but you see what I mean.)

I'm not asking for Rocco to be fired. I'm asking him to change this particular management technique.

 

I'm assuming, like most (successful) managers, he adapts and changes as he gains experience. 

[ashbury]

I'm not asking for Rocco to be fired. I'm asking him to change this particular management technique.

 

I'm assuming, like most (successful) managers, he adapts and changes as he gains experience. 

12 of his 14 AL peers appear to be similarly inexperienced, excluding Bob Melvin, who has shown remarkable discipline this year in writing Robbie Grossman's name into the lineup seemingly as often as humanly possible, and Alex Cora, who has turned in a season that has gotten his boss fired.

[USAFChief]

 

12 of his 14 AL peers appear to be similarly inexperienced, excluding Bob Melvin, who has shown remarkable discipline this year in writing Robbie Grossman's name into the lineup seemingly as often as humanly possible, and Alex Cora, who has gotten his boss fired.

Lindor doesn't get many days off either. He missed the start of the season. Nor Carlos Santana, Acuna, Albies, Semien, Solar, Merrifield, Freddie Freeman, Matt Chapman, Betts, Devers, Jose Abreu. All are over 140 games played (except Lindor), and that's just a quick search.

 

Plenty of players still get few scheduled off days. Injuries are something else, of course.

[ashbury]

Lindor doesn't get many days off either. He missed the start of the season. Nor Carlos Santana, Acuna, Albies, Semien, Solar, Merrifield, Freddie Freeman, Matt Chapman, Betts, Devers, Jose Abreu. All are over 140 games played (except Lindor), and that's just a quick search.

 

Plenty of players still get few scheduled off days. Injuries are something else, of course.

And our own Hip-Hip Jorge is fourth in the league in PA. Seems to me that Kepler and Buxton and Cruz and Rosario at very minimum would likewise be reaching the 140 game threshold if not for injury. Schoop too, if he hadn't been outplayed and lost his starting job to all intents and purposes.

[rv78]

We are talking about REST correct? I never mentioned that someone who is hurt shouldn't get a day or two off or be placed on the IR. I understand the grind a catcher goes thru. I have nothing against giving a player a day off if he is gassed and tells the Manager he needs it. But to automatically give guys a day or two of rest because it is scheduled is not using your players to the maximum possibility. I can just see Kirby Puckett coming to the ballpark and being told that he couldn't play because it was his scheduled day of REST.

[Sssuperdave]

Actually, I remember reading in Kirby Puckett's autobiography something to the effect of "there's nothing as nice as a scheduled day off".

[Tom Froemming]

 

Next year, I hope Rocco (and the front office) recognizes the futility of "resting" players during the regular season.

Rocco has given players way too much scheduled time off, to what benefit? All you do is willingly hold your better players out of too many games.

It does little to nothing in terms of keeping them healthy, or "rested."

All it does is intentionally reduce the number of games played by your best lineup.

 

I'd love to see any concrete data that supports any of these claims.

 

Honestly. If that's such a thing, it'd make for a great article.

[USAFChief]

 

I'd love to see any concrete data that supports any of these claims.

 

Honestly. If that's such a thing, it'd make for a great article.

Conversely, I'd like to see any concrete data that disproves it.

 

It certainly hasn't gotten the Twins to September healthy and rested. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Conversely, I'd like to see any concrete data that disproves it.

 

It certainly hasn't gotten the Twins to September healthy and rested. 

 

REally? We are now going with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc as some kind of argument? 

 

You really think athletes don't need rest?

[USAFChief]

 

REally? We are now going with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc as some kind of argument? 

 

You really think athletes don't need rest?

I think playing one baseball game a day, 6 days a week, along with associated workouts and warmups, doesn't require add'l rest, in most cases.

 

I doubt sitting a day adds anything to the mix. 

 

And the "data" argument goes both ways, btw. Provide some evidence sitting a day helps a baseball player perform better, or stays healthier. Or the added performance results in higher bottom line production than the production you lost by sitting the player. 

 

Show me that 5 games of X performance is better than 6 games of X-whatever, if your contention is that not sitting hurts performance.*

 

*not proven, by the way.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think playing one baseball game a day, 6 days a week, along with associated workouts and warmups, doesn't require add'l rest, in most cases.

 

I doubt sitting a day adds anything to the mix. 

 

We'll certainly disagree on this. And neither is going to change the other's mind......but it was fun while it lasted.....

[old nurse]

 

Conversely, I'd like to see any concrete data that disproves it.

 

It certainly hasn't gotten the Twins to September healthy and rested. 

You are the one making the claim what he is doing is bad. Show your work other than having a Gardy Gut feeling.

[prouster]

After a terrible year like this one, how could they not rest players less?

[Huskertwin]

 

I like this because someone recognizes that 1B defense IS important. Sadly, thats not as widely held an opinion as I would think it should be. I will say I am not sure Cruz was who you meant? Cron?

Yes, I meant Cron. Duh! for me.

[Cody Pirkl]

 

Next year, I hope Rocco (and the front office) recognizes the futility of "resting" players during the regular season.

Rocco has given players way too much scheduled time off, to what benefit? All you do is willingly hold your better players out of too many games.

It does little to nothing in terms of keeping them healthy, or "rested."

All it does is intentionally reduce the number of games played by your best lineup.

I'm fine with resting players throughout the season, especially through the first 2/3 of the season. My issue is that Rocco has said he's done it for guys like Garver so they could be fresh for the end of year stretch. As we've seen, he can't help himself and that was just a blatant lie. Garver is one of the few players actually hitting right now, and Rocco won't even allow him to take at bats in consecutive games. He's playing with fire, and it would be perfect Minnesota sports to see all the "rest days" along the way and blow this division by half a game or something. I've definitely lost a lot of faith in Rocco as we've seen his decision making crumble in big spots, both in individual games (bunting, leaving pitchers in too long, bringing guys like Parker into high leverage spots repeatedly) or now when the season is still very much in question (resting our best hitters, leaving Rosario in the cleanup spot). There's rookie mistakes, and then there's just ignoring statistics. The latter is just unacceptable.

[Brock Beauchamp]

it would be perfect Minnesota sports to see all the "rest days" along the way and blow this division by half a game or something.

That would be quite the feat, for sure.

[twinsnorth49]

It's almost as if teams are actually researching this crazy notion......

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-teams-focusing-on-improved-rest-to-help-their-players-perform-better/

[twinsnorth49]

Baseball is a relentless schedule, resting players certainly doesn't guarantee they don't get injured, but no team actually believes that and it isn't the reason they do it. Less wear and tear is definitely going to give your body a better chance of staying stronger. Baseball is not the only sport addressing this issue, basketball has been doing it for years.

[HighHeat]

In a sport where Hall of Fame success is failing less than 70% of the time, but only by the slimmest of margins, the crux of most of this debate seems to only include half of the equation. The mental grind contributes as much as the physical portion to the need for players getting an off day. I’m not sure how you quantify that part precisely, but the idea that Rocco has lost his marbles with his approach in 2019 is comical. We are either getting trolled or found the leading candidates for the get off my lawn club.

 

Now, should we be worried the pendulum could swing too far, that’s a fair question. However, the dynamics of facing 3-4 pitchers for your 4-5 AB’s daily should not be discounted as part of the challenge either. Given the choice, I think most hitters would have loved to play 30-50 years ago when they got to regularly face a starter 3-4 times per game.

 

I’m excited for the new rules next year about minimum batters faced. I think it could help restore health to relievers, as they’ll have less back to backs, but also improve the offenses chances late in games. As a fan, there isn’t much worse than trailing by 1-2 after 5 innings versus the Yankees and feeling like the game is done because of their bullpen.

[h2oface]

Rhythm of life. 

 

The ol' stay in rhythm and play all the time - or take time off to perform better. The player that gets too much rest says I need to play more and I'm out of rhythm. I would be hitting if only I would play every day. 

 

2010 history. September 22 the Twins had just clinched the day before, had a comfortable lead and a record of 92-60, and Gardenhire started resting players to get them "fresh" for the playoffs, and let them "heal" from the little dings that they, and all teams, were now feeling from the long season, and took it them out of the rhythm that had gotten them there. They started the culture of losing (that seemed to go into 2011 and the 63-99 fiasco), finished the season 2-8, 0-3 in the ALDS - went 2-11 to end their season. 

 

I don't think analytics considers human rhythms yet, do they? It seems to be a thing that has been happening for quite some time, though.

[h2oface]

 

Baseball is a relentless schedule, resting players certainly doesn't guarantee they don't get injured, but no team actually believes that and it isn't the reason they do it. Less wear and tear and is definitely going to give your body a better chance of staying stronger. Baseball is not the only sport addressing this issue, basketball has been doing it for years. 

 

It always seems that the team that wins a series early, and has to sit a week and wait and rest..... is never quite the same to me..... but I have did not reasearch the actuality of what the results have been.