Should Baldelli Platoon Jorge Polanco?

[twins1095]

Here are Jorge Polanco's batting splits:

 

2019 against RHP's:

 

Splits: .308 - .379 - .548 - .927 

Stats: 56 runs - 25 2B - 4 3B - 14 HR - 39 RBI - 35 BB - (312 ABs)

 

2019 against LHPs: 

 

Splits: .266 - .305 - .381 - .686

Stats: 5 2B - 1 3B - 3 HR - 16 RBI - 5 BB (139 ABs)

 

(Stats per 312 ABs: 11 2B - 2 3B - 7 HRs - 36 RBIs - 11 BB)

 

2018 against RHP's: 

 

Splits: .317 - .387 - .457 0 .844 

Stats: 13 2B - 3 3B - 3 HR - 29  RBI - 21 BBs (199 ABs)

 

2018 against LHPs:

 

Splits: .233 avg - .259 OBP - .369 SLG - ..628 OPS

Stats: 5 2B - 0 3Bs - 3 HRs - 13 RBIs - 4 BBs

 

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/position/ss/sort/OPS/order/true

 

Jorge Polanco, against lefties, is not only arguably the worst Twins hitter on any given day--but he's also among the worst in the MLB at the shortstop position.  I have attached a list of MLB shortstops that qualify this season.  Jorge Polanco is among the league's worst everyday shortstops as a hitter against left-handed pitching over the last 2 seasons.   As right-handed batter, Polanco becomes a hitter who has almost no power, no plate discipline, and below average contact skills...all while playing average to below average defense as SS.

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Should the idea of platooning Polanco be explored?  Should the idea of Polanco ditching the right-handed side of the plate be explored?  Polanco seems to be able to hit for more power and has a much better eye from the left side of the plate.  Even if he makes contact less against the same handed pitcher, more power and on base skills would likely translate if he hits more as a lefty.  Further, the only burden of proof he has to beat is a mid-600 OPS and a mid-200s batting average.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[MMMordabito]

All of his days off should definitely come against lefties.

[yarnivek1972]

Who do you have in mind for a platoon partner?

 

That kinda matters.

 

 

A close to .700 OPS isn’t great but he still has an obp over .300 vs LHP so he isn’t an automatic out.

 

I would say “below average contact” is an inaccurate characteriztion. 26 K in 150 PA is one every 6 PA. MLB average is about 1 K per 4 PA.

 

No power isn’t accurate either. 1/4 of his hits are for extra bases. Going back to 2017, his first long exposure to MLB, he was considerably better vs LHP than RHP. So, I would suspect that the change is mostly from seeing LHP less. Polanco is going to get ~ 450 PA vs RHP this year and 200 vs LHP. It’s also worth noting that he’s better in 2019 than 2018.

 

 

I would say it is something he needs to work on. Platoon? No. Several reasons.

 

1) Rarely see platoons at all anymore simply because teams only have 3-4 bench players.

 

2) Even more rare, would be a platoon at SS, arguably the second most important defender on the field.

 

3) Polanco’s numbers vs LHP aren’t that terrible. We’re not talking about Jacque Jones who carried a .500ish OPS vs LHP for most of his Twins tenure. You slot him between a couple lefty mashers (like Garver and Cruz) and take the chance that he can get a good pitch to hit or make a productive out.

 

4) Why? Is offense a problem for the Twins against LHP? It is not. The Twins are considerably better as a team vs LHP, even with Polanco bringing those numbers down.

 

5) The only reasonable platoon partner is Adrianza. While he is currently hitting LHP at a .900 plus OPS, I think he is best used as a reserve. He’s struggled when given the opportunity to start regularly.

 

Conclusion: Have Polanco work more on his RHB swing and maybe spot him against some of the tougher LHP. Platooning him? No. Don’t see the value, because even in games with a LH starter he’s probably going to get 1-2 PA vs RHP. Also, next year when the 3 batter minimum takes effect, slotting him between lefty mashers negates bringing in a LH reliever to face him.

[twins1095]

 

Who do you have in mind for a platoon partner?

That kinda matters.


A close to .700 OPS isn’t great but he still has an obp over .300 vs LHP so he isn’t an automatic out.

I would say “below average contact” is an inaccurate characteriztion. 26 K in 150 PA is one every 6 PA. MLB average is about 1 K per 4 PA.

No power isn’t accurate either. 1/4 of his hits are for extra bases. Going back to 2017, his first long exposure to MLB, he was considerably better vs LHP than RHP. So, I would suspect that the change is mostly from seeing LHP less. Polanco is going to get ~ 450 PA vs RHP this year and 200 vs LHP. It’s also worth noting that he’s better in 2019 than 2018.


I would say it is something he needs to work on. Platoon? No. Several reasons.

1) Rarely see platoons at all anymore simply because teams only have 3-4 bench players.

2) Even more rare, would be a platoon at SS, arguably the second most important defender on the field.

3) Polanco’s numbers vs LHP aren’t that terrible. We’re not talking about Jacque Jones who carried a .500ish OPS vs LHP for most of his Twins tenure. You slot him between a couple lefty mashers (like Garver and Cruz) and take the chance that he can get a good pitch to hit or make a productive out.

4) Why? Is offense a problem for the Twins against LHP? It is not. The Twins are considerably better as a team vs LHP, even with Polanco bringing those numbers down.

5) The only reasonable platoon partner is Adrianza. While he is currently hitting LHP at a .900 plus OPS, I think he is best used as a reserve. He’s struggled when given the opportunity to start regularly.

Conclusion: Have Polanco work more on his RHB swing and maybe spot him against some of the tougher LHP. Platooning him? No. Don’t see the value, because even in games with a LH starter he’s probably going to get 1-2 PA vs RHP. Also, next year when the 3 batter minimum takes effect, slotting him between lefty mashers negates bringing in a LH reliever to face him.

 

1) Tons of good teams these days platoon players and play more players more often at more positions than ever before to rest players and get the best match-ups.

 

2) Polanco is not a plus defender.  Throughout his career he's been a minus defender who has improved to somewhere close to average this season.   He is in the lineup because of his bat at a position where normally teams don't get much offense.  If he isn't providing that offense, he's not carrying the team and providing positive value with his glove.

 

3) His numbers against LHP are pretty bad.  He's the worst regular in the Twins lineup when the Twins face lefties.  He'd be the 3 worst SS by OPS to play every day when he hits as a right handed batter.

 

4) That is a team-wide argument and not an argument of whether the Twins would be better or worse if Polanco is in the lineup or not in the lineup.  Polanco hits at the top of the Twins order against LHP's and is the Twins worst hitter against LHP's.  This is a huge hole in the lineup and will become an even bigger problem when the Twins face better pitching in the playoffs and/or in late game situations when teams can easily plug in a reliever to get Polanco out or essentially neutralize him as a threat of any magnitude.

 

You said it.  Adrianza is better defensively and as you suggested better on offense against LHPs.  Playing against LHP's (not as many) is not playing everyday.  Going forward, the Twins should also take this into account when thinking about if they should trade players like Arraez and Gordon and their middle infield rotation.

 

Polanco's contact and on base skills comparatively go way down against LHP's.  His walk rate is below average and his power, evidenced by his slugging percentage, is Nick Punto like.  Contact skills are more than strikeout rate.  Polanco may be able to make weak contact, but that's about it.

 

League average OPS, SLG%, and OBP% are .758, .435, .323 this season.  He's a below average hitter.  At best, Baldelli should slide Polanco down to the bottom of the order like he does for other players like Kepler (who came into this season with platoon type splits against lefties and righties).

[MMMordabito]

At least Polanco's contract doesn't put a damper on this possibility.  Don't get me wrong, I like Polanco and I'm confident his numbers against LHP will improve with seasoning.  He obviously gets fat on RHP (glad it isn't the other way around).  I am open-minded on how to improve the team though.  Ehire Adrianza's capability at SS and 134 wRC+ against LHP this season should give pause to any drastic moves though.  It's pretty easy to just offer him Arb again in 2020.  Adrianza's career 93 wRC+ against LHP is still quite a bit better than Polanco's 82.  

 

Given all that and the fact that getting constant above average offense from SS can sometimes be a luxury, I don't think this is a priority on the list of shortcomings that the Twins have as a whole.

[jkcarew]

Season splits against LHP are always pretty SSS. I'd rather look at career splits when it comes to splits against LHP. Adrianza is at .725; Polanco at .697. (Although, Adrianza is hot against lefties this year so far.)

 

I don't think the FO extended Polanco through 2024 (team option 2025) with the idea that we would platoon him. I think he continues to work on the swing from the right side as is reasonable...and in the meantime, you give him his off days against certain lefties.

[JW24]

 

League average OPS, SLG%, and OBP% are .758, .435, .323 this season.  He's a below average hitter.  At best, Baldelli should slide Polanco down to the bottom of the order like he does for other players like Kepler (who came into this season with platoon type splits against lefties and righties).

I think this is a better idea than a platoon, moving Polanco down in the order. I wouldn't be opposed to Rocco moving Buxton (when healthy) up to 2 against a lefty and dropping Polanco down to 9.

[stringer bell]

Polanco has slumped noticeably from both sides. Without looking, I would guess the slide is more pronounced as a right handed hitter. Scheduling his days off when a lefty starts makes sense, but a strict platoon? Not so much.

[BrianBuchanan]

 

Polanco has slumped noticeably from both sides. Without looking, I would guess the slide is more pronounced as a right handed hitter. Scheduling his days off when a lefty starts makes sense, but a strict platoon? Not so much.

 

This seems like the most reasonable answer. No harm in trying to get Polanco a few extra days off (Rocco rode him more than the other starters in the first half) and Adrianza has proven more than adequate in relieving him on a limited basis.

[Dantes929]

I don't know why people have such a problem with this.    The idea that it won't work because we only have 3 or 4 bench players is kind of silly.   Its not like if Adrianza starts we lose a bench player.   Polanco simply becomes that guy.    For the record I was always advocating that Hicks would have great value as our 4th outfielder and as a sub for Rosario or Kepler when facing lefties because his minor league and major league splits were so much better from the right side.    Keeping him  in that role might not have been great for his career but great for the Twins.   Partly because he doesn't hit the game tying home run and make the game saving catch this year.     Also because he would be playing instead of Cave now.   I am wrong as much as anyone here but I still think that would have been a better move.

[Tomj14]

 

I don't know why people have such a problem with this.    The idea that it won't work because we only have 3 or 4 bench players is kind of silly.   Its not like if Adrianza starts we lose a bench player.   Polanco simply becomes that guy.    For the record I was always advocating that Hicks would have great value as our 4th outfielder and as a sub for Rosario or Kepler when facing lefties because his minor league and major league splits were so much better from the right side.    Keeping him  in that role might not have been great for his career but great for the Twins.   Partly because he doesn't hit the game tying home run and make the game saving catch this year.     Also because he would be playing instead of Cave now.   I am wrong as much as anyone here but I still think that would have been a better move.

lets not forget Hicks was not good his first year with the yanks, he was great his 2nd year, but only played 88 games, I am pretty sure if he was a bad for the Twins 2016 as he was with the Yanks, he probably would have been gone any way, maybe for less than that catcher who will not be named.

[twins1095]

 

I think this is a better idea than a platoon, moving Polanco down in the order. I wouldn't be opposed to Rocco moving Buxton (when healthy) up to 2 against a lefty and dropping Polanco down to 9.

 

I agree the title was ultimately a little bit provocative.  I think there are other viable options that are not as drastic and should be looked at such as moving him down in the order.  I also think that it's possible that Polanco should just work on his left handed swing and focus on learning to pick up the ball better as a left handed hitter.  

 

The thing that worries me most is the lack of power shown over his career from the right handed side.  I think that really limits his upside as a hitter compared to the left side.  I think he's got more upside as a hitter and there's a higher likelihood of improvement with Polanco learning how to pick up pitches from lefties and swing at the good ones he gets with an already good swing than retool his right handed swing to be more of a threat.  Again, it's not that he's striking out as a righty more often it's just that he struggles to make good or hard contact.  

 

Polanco already likely needs to work on better pitch recognition as a righty along with his swing.  As a full-time lefty he just has to do one.  Further, the burden of proof for his lefty swing versus lefties is only better than his mid-600 OPS as a right-handed hitter.  I believe that he can do better than that swinging from the other side.

[lukeduke1980]

Could Marwin get some SS time?  I see he has .774 OPS vs LHP.  Not necessarily advocating a platoon, but an option besides Adrianza.  

[Number3]

Team offense was not the problem in the last 2 losses so I would go more by Polanco's attitude and physical shape than strictly numbers. He and Rosario both seemed to be a bit tired ( for lack of a better word) in the last 2 against the Braves. I hope they are all honest with Rocco so he can simply put the best team on the field that he can as the season winds down.

Hardest thing to do in sports is close the deal. Twins have been in first place all year but all that counts is the next month and 3 weeks or so.

[Riverbrian]

Platooning a player is the best way to develop a platoon player. 

 

I'd rather Polanco develop into a complete player.

 

Give Polanco some select days off. Just like you give other players select days off. 

 

 

[alarp33]

No. 

[Battle ur tail off]

No. That is all. He is your starting shortstop and part of the heart and soul of this team. 

[twins1095]

 

Platooning a player is the best way to develop a platoon player. 

 

I'd rather Polanco develop into a complete player.

 

Give Polanco some select days off. Just like you give other players select days off. 

 

The question is purposefully proactive, but Polanco is hurting the team as a right-handed hitter.  The question was meant to get into a conversation about ways for Polanco to make a better and more complete impact.   

[yarnivek1972]

The question is purposefully proactive, but Polanco is hurting the team as a right-handed hitter. The question was meant to get into a conversation about ways for Polanco to make a better and more complete impact.

 

How is he hurting the TEAM? Even with him “underperforming” vs LHP the TEAM is better vs LHP. So, why fix something that isn’t broken? On the list of problems the Twins have, this doesn’t crack the top 10.

[Riverbrian]

 

The question is purposefully proactive, but Polanco is hurting the team as a right-handed hitter.  The question was meant to get into a conversation about ways for Polanco to make a better and more complete impact.   

 

I understood the premise and the reasoning for a platoon. 

 

We are not talking about a 35 year old on the backside of his career with large collection of numbers that suggest that he mashes one side and doesn't mash the other side. Those are the players that you platoon and I personally question letting players like that take up valuable roster space. 

 

With Polanco... We are talking about a player pre-prime who can still get better unless you pull the plug early on one of the sides and say "Platoon Player". In that case, you might as well just DFA him now so we can give the SS job to a more complete player because the right side of that platoon is gonna get hurt and we will have to throw Polanco to the wolves eventually with no training for the wolves. 

 

As for "hurting the team". I don't believe Polanco is hurting the team at all. 

[ashbury]

Give Polanco some select days off. Just like you give other players select days off. 

Yeah, when there's a platoon disadvantage.

 

 

_{^{/ ducking...}}

[twins1095]

 

Polanco has slumped noticeably from both sides. Without looking, I would guess the slide is more pronounced as a right handed hitter. Scheduling his days off when a lefty starts makes sense, but a strict platoon? Not so much.

 

His numbers were even worse last season as a right handed batter.  I do believe that Polanco can get better as a hitter, but when we're talking about a potential stretch run where every single game and AB matters more and more a in the playoffs when those ABs become even more magnified... I think optimizing your lineup is definitely worth a conversation.  Currently, your worst hitter in your projected lineup against right handed hitters is your #2 hitter.  

 

There are a number of ways where you could really improve probable outcomes in key moments and in a key position in your lineup.  It could be the difference between a win and a loss in some games during this stretch run and eventual playoffs.

 

 

[yarnivek1972]

His numbers were even worse last season as a right handed batter. I do believe that Polanco can get better as a hitter, but when we're talking about a potential stretch run where every single game and AB matters more and more a in the playoffs when those ABs become even more magnified... I think optimizing your lineup is definitely worth a conversation. Currently, your worst hitter in your projected lineup against right handed hitters is your #2 hitter.

 

There are a number of ways where you could really improve probable outcomes in key moments and in a key position in your lineup. It could be the difference between a win and a loss in some games during this stretch run and eventual playoffs.

Which suggests he’s already working on improving that part of his game.

 

Again, the TEAM with Polanco hitting 2nd vs LHP is doing just fine. So, keeping him there isn’t hurting the TEAM at all.

[twins1095]

 

Which suggests he’s already working on improving that part of his game.

Again, the TEAM with Polanco hitting 2nd vs LHP is doing just fine. So, keeping him there isn’t hurting the TEAM at all.

 

I mean it's well within a small sample size (250-300 ABs) worth of statistical noise of no improvement. 

 

The TEAM doing well against LHPs including games THE TEAM plays against NON-PLAYOFF TEAMS or NON-ACE CALIBER PITCHERS =/= how well the TEAM could perform IN THE PLAYOFFS.

 

Even in the regular season, playing against lots of bad teams and pitchers mixed in that sample you are talking about, just because the team is and has played well doesn't mean that they wouldn't play better if you better optimized the lineups.

 

I think this is an EXTREMELY important conversation as games and individual at bats start to matter more and more.   This hasn't been an issue during the bulk of the regular season especially as the Twins were winning games and building a huge cushion.  This is an EXTREMELY important and hard conversation to have as we enter this stretch run and a potential playoff run.

 

The fact of the matter is, the Twins lineup is not optimized against LHPs and a player they are currently relying on in the middle of the order is one of their weakest hitters.  The current position in the lineup for Polanco exacerbates this issue as much as possible.

 

There are a number of things you could do to shield and limit the impact of this weakness.  Baldelli has shown the willingness to do it with other hitters.  There is no argument against the fact that THIS YEAR during THIS STRETCH RUN and during THIS PLAYOFF RUN.  Polanco will negatively IMPACT the TEAM's ceiling against LHP's at the top of the order.  The TEAM may or may not be able to carry that weight.  

 

There are a number of good arguments in this thread against my own, this argument that you've been pushing is not one of those.  

 

 

[Seth Stohs]

Is it OK to just say "No."

[twins1095]

 

Is it OK to just say "No."

 

It is okay to say no!  The post was meant to lead into a discussion of if Polanco should still be hitting 2nd in the lineup and if he could potentially be a better player by sticking on the left handed side of the plate.   I do kind of regret the title and the way I phrased it.  

 

That was not the best way to get to the productive meat of the conversation.  I believe there is a good one to be had.  

 

We talk about Sano tweaking his swing or Kepler needing to get better against lefties (pre-2018), why not open up the same conversation for Polanco?

[Mr. Brooks]

This is insane and I have no idea how this topic even has traction. Polanco is one of the best players in the league, he's solid defensively and he's got 133 hits this year. Tied for 10th in the majors. You know who he's tied with? Chicago's Javier Baez.

 

Polanco is 20th in the league in batting average. You know who's stats are almost identical to Polanco? Ozzie Albies.

 

What if Cubs fans started complaining about Baez, or Braves fans about Albies. You'd think they're nuts.

 

Just because he's had a cold-ish week should not diminish your ability to see that he's been a huge key to the Twins overall success. Should he get more days off? Sure. But who you gonna put in? Schoop? Adrianza? They any better?

 

I'm sorry but this topic is a real stretch. We can be angry about the Twins losing a few games to ATL, but suggesting that Polanco should now be sitting against lefties is ridiculous. Good grief.

With the numbers vs lefties presented, I thought it was a perfectly legitimate discussion topic, even if one I disagree with.

Perhaps we read different articles?

I saw nothing in it as reactionary as your resort seems to suggest.

[Riverbrian]

 

Yeah, when there's a platoon disadvantage.

 

 

_{^{/ ducking...}}

[bighat]

 

With the numbers vs lefties presented, I thought it was a perfectly legitimate discussion topic, even if one I disagree with.
Perhaps we read different articles?
I saw nothing in it as reactionary as your resort seems to suggest.

 

Suggesting sitting one of the best players in the league? Dude he's batting .265 against lefties, what's so bad about that? Max Kepler is batting .270 against lefties, should sit him against lefties too? 

 

This team has plenty of issues to nit-pick. There are plenty of adjustments this team could make. Complaining about Polanco is like complaining the thread count on your sheets while the house is on fire. He's only a month removed from serious MVP consideration and is as solid a player as this team has.

[Mr. Brooks]

Suggesting sitting one of the best players in the league? Dude he's batting .265 against lefties, what's so bad about that? Max Kepler is batting .270 against lefties, should sit him against lefties too?

 

This team has plenty of issues to nit-pick. There are plenty of adjustments this team could make. Complaining about Polanco is like complaining the thread count on your sheets while the house is on fire. He's only a month removed from serious MVP consideration and is as solid a player as this team has.

There is more to baseball than just batting average.

Max Kepler has an .810 OPS versus lefies. Polanco has a .686 OPS versus lefies.

There is also the fact that any platoon partner with Kepler is going to be a steep downgrade on defense, as Kepler is an elite defensive corner outfielder.

Whereas a platoon partner for Polanco (Adrianza) would be a significant defensive upgrade, as Polanco is average to slightly below average defensively.

 

I would let him try to figure out left handed pitching, personally, especially since we have the luxury of a great lineup around him. But I don't find anything preposterous about the discussion, if you just look at the numbers versus lefies only.

 

I also couldn't find any examples of the author "complaining" about Polanco. Perhaps you could point them out to me.