Tampa Bay and MLB Rules

[diehardtwinsfan]

They've had a couple of interesting pitching incidents of late... I think the rule breaking is a bit overblown, but it is interesting (and I'm surprised given our BP situation that we haven't tried it)

 

First, they basically had a position player lobbing in 55 MPH pitches in a blow out, taking a loss. I don't mind personally there, it happens when you're out of guys. We've had players do it, but nothing quite as blatant as that.

 

Second, yesterday they moved their RP to 1B after he got his out and brought in a second reliever. They forfeited their DH in the process. Used the second reliever to get an out and then swapped their pitchers again.  Of course Angel Hernandez had trouble figuring out what to do...

 

I kind of like that second option. Not a bad way to approach late innings if you have a lights out righty and lefty... 

 

They're being accused of breaking the rules. I don't buy that. Boston played the game under protest. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

First, they basically had a position player lobbing in 55 MPH pitches in a blow out, taking a loss. I don't mind personally there, it happens when you're out of guys. We've had players do it, but nothing quite as blatant as that.

 

Adrianza vs the Mets was pretty blatant. I think he broke 60 MPH, but they sure looked like batting practice tosses.

[RedBull34]

I guess I don't see the problem with either.

 

Think about it, the Rays had to forfeit their DH and pull the 2B (in this case) out of the game to do this.

 

That's how you should manage your roster if you can afford to do it.

[MMMordabito]

If there is something to exploit, Tampa will find it.

[SomeGuy]

 

They've had a couple of interesting pitching incidents of late... I think the rule breaking is a bit overblown, but it is interesting (and I'm surprised given our BP situation that we haven't tried it)

 

First, they basically had a position player lobbing in 55 MPH pitches in a blow out, taking a loss. I don't mind personally there, it happens when you're out of guys. We've had players do it, but nothing quite as blatant as that.

 

Second, yesterday they moved their RP to 1B after he got his out and brought in a second reliever. They forfeited their DH in the process. Used the second reliever to get an out and then swapped their pitchers again.  Of course Angel Hernandez had trouble figuring out what to do...

 

I kind of like that second option. Not a bad way to approach late innings if you have a lights out righty and lefty... 

 

They're being accused of breaking the rules. I don't buy that. Boston played the game under protest. 

It is an interesting approach but might be squashed next season with the 3 batter minimum.  You might be able to argue that they are still facing 3 batters just as a position player for some of them.  Start a late inning with a reliever and move him to 1st or OF after facing one hitter.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Seems that Boston's protest was about where the pitchers were inserted into the batting order, since Tampa didn't specify. But it didn't affect the outcome at all, and there is zero chance the protest is upheld.

[JW24]

 

Seems that Boston's protest was about where the pitchers were inserted into the batting order, since Tampa didn't specify. But it didn't affect the outcome at all, and there is zero chance the protest is upheld.

This is my understanding as well, coupled with the original post's reference to Angel Hernandez continuing to be terrible at his job and not understanding what was happening.

 

Really unique idea from Tampa Bay, I wouldn't be surprised to see it utilized more often.

[nicksaviking]

 

They've had a couple of interesting pitching incidents of late... I think the rule breaking is a bit overblown, but it is interesting (and I'm surprised given our BP situation that we haven't tried it)

 

First, they basically had a position player lobbing in 55 MPH pitches in a blow out, taking a loss. I don't mind personally there, it happens when you're out of guys. We've had players do it, but nothing quite as blatant as that.

 

Second, yesterday they moved their RP to 1B after he got his out and brought in a second reliever. They forfeited their DH in the process. Used the second reliever to get an out and then swapped their pitchers again.  Of course Angel Hernandez had trouble figuring out what to do...

 

I kind of like that second option. Not a bad way to approach late innings if you have a lights out righty and lefty... 

 

They're being accused of breaking the rules. I don't buy that. Boston played the game under protest. 

 

I really like the second one and even asked last year why no one ever taught their pitchers how to play LF so they could do this. I guess maybe 1B makes more sense.

 

Anything that makes Angel Hernandez look bad should be celebrated.

[RedBull34]

 

I really like the second one and even asked last year why no one ever taught their pitchers how to play LF so they could do this. I guess maybe 1B makes more sense.

 

Anything that makes Angel Hernandez look bad should be celebrated.

I'd imagine you'd put the LHP in RF and the RHP in LF, which would be kinda neat.

[jeffiedahl]

 

 

:

Second, yesterday they moved their RP to 1B after he got his out and brought in a second reliever. They forfeited their DH in the process. Used the second reliever to get an out and then swapped their pitchers again. 

:

 

This strategy was used by Pop Cooper of the Bisons in 1953 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045958).

 

 

[KidBro]

 

 

:

Second, yesterday they moved their RP to 1B after he got his out and brought in a second reliever. They forfeited their DH in the process. Used the second reliever to get an out and then swapped their pitchers again. 

:

 

This strategy was used by Pop Cooper of the Bisons in 1953 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045958).

 

 

Your first post is history!  Welcome.  

[Platoon]

This is my understanding as well, coupled with the original post's reference to Angel Hernandez continuing to be terrible at his job and not understanding what was happening.

 

Really unique idea from Tampa Bay, I wouldn't be surprised to see it utilized more often.

A unique idea? They have been doing it in kids and amateur ball for decades, to the extent that many tournament and league rules mandate that any pitch is an inning. Also lots of tournaments allow only one appearance as a pitcher in a game. You leave the mound your are done. It may be unique in that MLB managers such as Kelly, Gardy, Molitor, et al have been so hidebound in the "respect for the game" mantra that they couldn't think this far out of a box. The only arguement I would accept against the practice is a concern over the health of the arm of a high priced asset.

[Platoon]

I'd imagine you'd put the LHP in RF and the RHP in LF, which would be kinda neat.

And the ambidextrous one in CF?

[Tomj14]

 

This is my understanding as well, coupled with the original post's reference to Angel Hernandez continuing to be terrible at his job and not understanding what was happening.

 

Really unique idea from Tampa Bay, I wouldn't be surprised to see it utilized more often.

The Mets did this in the 80's with McDowell and Orosco, and McDowell did it for the Dodgers also

[JW24]

 

A unique idea? They have been doing it in kids and amateur ball for decades, to the extent that many tournament and league rules mandate that any pitch is an inning. Also lots of tournaments allow only one appearance as a pitcher in a game. You leave the mound your are done. It may be unique in that MLB managers such as Kelly, Gardy, Molitor, et al have been so hidebound in the "respect for the game" mantra that they couldn't think this far out of a box. The only arguement I would accept against the practice is a concern over the health of the arm of a high priced asset.

 

I'm not saying it is the first time anyone has ever done it or that the Rays are the first to think of it, so lets just calm down a bit here.

 

With the new restrictions coming to how relievers are used, teams will have to get creative like this to still get the pitching match-ups they want, soon to be at the expense of having someone inexperienced playing first base (in the Rays situation) and losing your DH in the order. I would guess this strategy has not been utilized more because teams value having their primary first baseman in the game for both offensive and defensive purposes, and not because of "respect for the game."

 

If you can get an edge over your opponent by any means necessary, teams will find a way to do so.

[rdehring]

If Ohtani were healthy this year, how about this.

 

He could start the game as the first baseman.  Then go to the mound to face every left handed batter.  I know the new 3 batter rule may apply next year, but until then would this work?

[jokin]

 

The Mets did this in the 80's with McDowell and Orosco, and McDowell did it for the Dodgers also

 

Lefty Sam McDowell of the Indians temporarily played .2 innings at 1B and another game for one out at 2B before returning to the mound mid-inning- he even got the put out- good thing he didn't need to make a relay throw on a double play!

[Nine of twelve]

There's this:

 

Rule 5.10(d) Comment (Rule 3.03 Comment): A pitcher may change to another position only once during the same inning; e.g. the pitcher will not be allowed to assume a position other than a pitcher more than once in the same inning.

 

You can move the pitcher to another position and back to pitcher, but only once per inning.

[USAFChief]

Switching a pitcher to another position for a hitter or two isnt new, as noted above. Used to be fairly common. Whitey Herzog used to do it a couple three times per season. The DH made it more complicated.

[ashbury]

Switching a pitcher to another position for a hitter or two isnt new, as noted above. Used to be fairly common. Whitey Herzog used to do it a couple three times per season. The DH made it more complicated.

In an NL game, without the DH, I don't even see where the controversy would have been, in the scenario of this Rays-Sox game. The second pitcher takes the place of the 1Bman (say) in the batting order, since 1B is the guy who left the game and the new pitcher is the one who entered. The first pitcher remains batting ninth (or wherever, if there had previously been a double switch) After the next batter, and the second pitcher goes and grabs some pine, the first pitcher goes back to the mound and a new 1Bman comes in, and the batting order remains obvious, with this once-and-future pitcher still batting ninth.

 

So analogously in an AL game, with a DH, the same logic should apply, with the first pitcher being in the DH's slot in the batting order. Why did this take a quarter hour, and a call to New York? What did Tampa try to say was happening, and what did Boston?

[USAFChief]

 

In an NL game, without the DH, I don't even see where the controversy would have been, in the scenario of this Rays-Sox game. The second pitcher takes the place of the 1Bman (say) in the batting order, since 1B is the guy who left the game and the new pitcher is the one who entered. The first pitcher remains batting ninth (or wherever, if there had previously been a double switch) After the next batter, and the second pitcher goes and grabs some pine, the first pitcher goes back to the mound and a new 1Bman comes in, and the batting order remains obvious, with this once-and-future pitcher still batting ninth.

 

So analogously in an AL game, with a DH, the same logic should apply, with the first pitcher being in the DH's slot in the batting order. Why did this take a quarter hour, and a call to New York? What did Tampa try to say was happening, and what did Boston?

protest never filed.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2019/07/25/red-sox-protest/WnS1KwUJfBR4kQtFyfQ3mN/story.html?p1=HP_TrendingBar

[ashbury]

protest never filed.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2019/07/25/red-sox-protest/WnS1KwUJfBR4kQtFyfQ3mN/story.html?p1=HP_TrendingBar

This article states that Cora interpreted the rule differently than I stated, and now the team is dropping the subject. You can connect the dots as well as I can. If the Red Sox decide to make a managerial change, they know where to find me, just a 30 minute commuter-rail ride away.

[Platoon]

This article states that Cora interpreted the rule differently than I stated, and now the team is dropping the subject. You can connect the dots as well as I can. If the Red Sox decide to make a managerial change, they know where to find me, just a 30 minute commuter-rail ride away.

Train ride? To acquire such a nimble mind I think the Sox could easily throw in a chauffeur driven black Escalade! . Edit: Typing this I found that suggestive type showed this as "humble mind"? Lol. It was an internal struggle as to whether to correct it. But common sense won out.

[TFRazor]

 

 

Anything that makes Angel Hernandez look bad should be celebrated.

 

That is literally everything. Angel Hernandez even makes Angel Hernandez look bad. I feel like he's befuddled 7 out of 9 innings in every game he works.