Astudillo

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

He didn't catch the first time up because he hadn't caught in AAA for nearly 40 days. 

 

I am not going to shed a singe tear when Molitor is fired but this one is on either the AAA club or the FO.

 

 and 40 nights ?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If you are just looking at his baseball card stats and his position versatility, there's no reason not to want this guy to come back next year. I would like to see him take a walk, however, or at least know what an Astudillo base on balls looks like, or I fear his numbers will plummet with opponents getting better information about him. 

 

[Vanimal46]

Nothing was his fault?

 

Or have you just reached the point where you are dismissing anything I mention directly out of hand.

I made my personal opinion about Molitor known on the thread specifically about him.

 

You're implying in the OP I responded to that Molitor is so obtuse, so simpleminded that it's inconceivable he can think outside of rigid player roles. When the truth is Molitor thought way out of the box for Astudillo. He put him in CF where he had zero experience. He played him at 2B where he also has zero experience. 3B, C, etc.

 

I'm wondering if it's possible for people to say anything positive about the guy anymore.

 

Because I hate to break it to folks, but odds are he's coming back next season. Will the bitching and moaning continue as long as he's the manager? If so, I'm going to have to start ignoring people I used to really enjoy engaging with on this site.

[Ben Noble]

 

If you are just looking at his baseball card stats and his position versatility, there's no reason not to want this guy to come back next year. I would like to see him take a walk, however, or at least know what an Astudillo base on balls looks like, or I fear his numbers will plummet with opponents getting better information about him. 

 

Sure, but I guess the glass-half-full version is that I'd like to know what an Astudillo strikeout looks like, since I missed...both of them.

 

I don't think it's just the baseball card stats, either. I think his offensive profile is so nontraditional that it could potentially benefit an offense if not overused, kind of like a submarine pitcher, to give the other team a different look. Would other teams pitch and defend him differently in certain late-game situations knowing that he's practically guaranteed of putting the ball in play? Maybe. Or maybe his numbers will plummet once the book gets out on him.

 

But I think he'd make a great 25th man until those numbers actually do plummet: has options, crazy defensive versatility, unique offensive profile. And while he might not hustle any harder than other players, it sure physically looks like it and it's fun to watch, and that can't hurt the clubhouse.

[yarnivek1972]

Some people are just good at putting the bat on the ball. Usually, they sacrifice power. Joe Mauer, for example.

[Riverbrian]

 

I made my personal opinion about Molitor known on the thread specifically about him.

You're implying in the OP I responded to that Molitor is so obtuse, so simpleminded that it's inconceivable he can think outside of rigid player roles. When the truth is Molitor thought way out of the box for Astudillo. He put him in CF where he had zero experience. He played him at 2B where he also has zero experience. 3B, C, etc.

I'm wondering if it's possible for people to say anything positive about the guy anymore.

Because I hate to break it to folks, but odds are he's coming back next season. Will the bitching and moaning continue as long as he's the manager? If so, I'm going to have to start ignoring people I used to really enjoy engaging with on this site.

 

Let's you and I get something very clear.

 

You are using the words "Obtuse" and "Simpleminded" and attaching it to me... STOP DOING THAT.  You are escalating the discussion with your perception of my intention and if you are using "Obtuse" or "Simpleminded" you are miles away from what I think and putting words in my mouth to make your point about what is coming out of my mouth.  Don't do that.  

 

You will not find a single post on Twinsdaily where I use those words or any words that mean anything close to that. When I question Molitor it is because I have questions. I do and I am asking them. 

 

And for the future... If you wish to debate my questions, thoughts or convictions... feel free... I post them for debate. But do not ever take your debate to ridiculous levels wayyyyyy beyond the border to prove your point, such as "Molitor was the brains and finances behind 9/11". That post has no substance whatsoever and all you are trying to do, when you do that, is minimize my point as ridiculous and do the same to me simultaneously. That is you intentionally showing me a complete lack of respect.  

 

If I were to respond back "Yeah You'd vote for Molitor for President" or "Bobby Wilson is the next Johnny Bench". It wouldn't be an accurate representation of your thoughts. It would just be extreme garbage to be an ******* on purpose. I won't do that. 

 

Back to the discussion... I'm asking specifically about Catcher in regards to Bobby Wilson.

 

I would have loved to see him play both 3B and C. Yes I'm all for flexibility although I don't believe Astundillo in CF or 2B is what I mean by flexibility. 

 

Take a step further... Now that Astundillo is playing catcher... Who is playing 1B?  That would be Chris Gimenez. 

 

This is why I have questions. I am allowed to ask them. 

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

If you are just looking at his baseball card stats and his position versatility, there's no reason not to want this guy to come back next year. I would like to see him take a walk, however, or at least know what an Astudillo base on balls looks like, or I fear his numbers will plummet with opponents getting better information about him.

How so? He's not getting by on BABIP. In fact, his BABIP has been well below average this year. His power might regress down, but that BABIP could regress up to make up for it.

 

If he can keep avoiding strikeouts, he can be successful whether he walks or not.

[ashbury]

How so? He's not getting by on BABIP. In fact, his BABIP has been well below average this year. His power might regress down, but that BABIP could regress up to make up for it.

 

If he can keep avoiding strikeouts, he can be successful whether he walks or not.

I was about to tackle the BABIP angle myself. For instance, I wondered whether his peculiar batting profile would lead to chronic low BABIP for some reason. But it appears not - some years he's been above .300 BABIP in the minors, other years below. So if anything, his low BABIP might mean we haven't even seen his potential yet.

 

There's a chance that opponents find some key weakness to exploit. But, if the choice comes down to e.g. swinging at out pitches below the strike zone, I think Willians is a smart player, and will lay off. His minor league walk rates are low, but there have been times he's been willing to take a walk - not at a level you might want to see, but I don't see sheer ornery stubbornness in his numbers.

[Otto von Ballpark]

He didn't catch the first time up because he hadn't caught in AAA for nearly 40 days.

  

and 40 nights ?

Perhaps there was a biblical number of rainouts for Rochester?

[Riverbrian]

 

I was about to tackle the BABIP angle myself. For instance, I wondered whether his peculiar batting profile would lead to chronic low BABIP for some reason. But it appears not - some years he's been above .300 BABIP in the minors, other years below. So if anything, his low BABIP might mean we haven't even seen his potential yet.

 

There's a chance that opponents find some key weakness to exploit. But, if the choice comes down to e.g. swinging at out pitches below the strike zone, I think Willians is a smart player, and will lay off. His minor league walk rates are low, but there have been times he's been willing to take a walk - not at a level you might want to see, but I don't see sheer ornery stubbornness in his numbers.

 

I think there is value in putting the ball consistently in play. All those nasty K's will kill the ole' BA.

 

He also might be one of the guys who benefits from major league pitching because the pitching is better. 

 

He seems to be able to hit anything so he might be able to take advantage of pitchers that are around the plate more.

 

I'm hoping he is one of those guys who can you just toss the minor league stats away and let him write a new MLB book. 

 

I'm not predicting anything for him. But... based on what I'm seeing right now. He can certainly play on this current Twins team. 

[nicksaviking]

I'm wondering if it's possible for people to say anything positive about the guy anymore.

 

Will the bitching and moaning continue as long as he's the manager? If so, I'm going to have to start ignoring people I used to really enjoy engaging with on this site.

I tend to do both. I did with TR and Gardy and do with the new front office. No one's getting unconditional praise or condemnation from me though the scale can tilt heavily in one direction. I am struggling to find enough things I appreciate about Molitor currently though. He seems humble and willing to try out new suggestions, I'll give him that.

[Platoon]

There is a saying in golf, "no one ever made a putt that was left short"! In baseball, no one who strikes out ever (as a rule) reaches base. It's why I simply cannot understand the current lack of concern over strike outs. As to working counts? Last night, I TiVo'ed the game and frankly didn't pay attention to who said this, but it was a Twins color man. Sounded like Roy. A Yankee was 2-0 and got a fast ball. Didn't hit it, then got a slider for 2-2. He made the point, why not hit the fastball if it's in a decent spot, why wait for that slider? Getting ahead in the count, and hitting your pitch makes sense. Getting ahead in the count, and taking a good pitch does not. I can't believe that if stats like how many pitches a player averages per AB are bandied about as being significant, it doesn't cause hitters to become squeamish early in the count. Baseball games are not won on pitches per AB, they are won by runs per game. It used to be bullpens were weak rejected starters, those days are gone. It's not always such a great idea to "work" your way into a bullpen.

[DocBauer]

Astudillo should be kept around. And not because he's a fun story. And I have no idea why he was brought in as a catcher, then suddenly not allowed to catch, and then suddenly returned to catching again. But from what I have seen and read, he looks pretty competent behind the dish.

 

His entire milb career, and what hes shown in SSS at the ML level, he can hit some, and make contact. His power has been escalating this season. One year? Or maturity for a still 26yo ballplayer? The jury is out.

 

But what little we've seen of him vs Wilson? All I can dare to think is Wilson was there to caddy for Garver. Maybe that's what Giminez is doing now. (And I respect both guys). But for a team starved for catching help, even with Castro hopefully coming back in 2019, and the "young" and talented Garver...and make no mistake he does have some talent and potential...we are still starved for depth.

 

40 man, or a big AAA contract and ST invite, this is the kind of guy to hold on to and bring back.

[Riverbrian]

 

I tend to do both. I did with TR and Gardy and do with the new front office. No one's getting unconditional praise or condemnation from me though the scale can tilt heavily in one direction. I am struggling to find enough things I appreciate about Molitor currently though. He seems humble and willing to try out new suggestions, I'll give him that.

 

Molly is shifting, he is experimenting with the "Opener" concept. I give him credit for that. 

 

I'm not even calling for his head yet. 

 

But... What is going on with Astundillo still confounds me. 

[jorgenswest]

In defense of the Twins decision to use Wilson and perhaps a reason the Cubs looked to add him in August.

 

Berrios has thrown to Wilson for about half of his batter faced this season. With Wilson, Berrios has struck out 28.1% of batters. Without Wilson his rate is 20.9%.

[Riverbrian]

 

In defense of the Twins decision to use Wilson and perhaps a reason the Cubs looked to add him in August.

Berrios has thrown to Wilson for about half of his batter faced this season. With Wilson, Berrios has struck out 28.1% of batters. Without Wilson his rate is 20.9%.

 

Good point. 

[DocBauer]

Molly is shifting, he is experimenting with the "Opener" concept. I give him credit for that. 

 

I'm not even calling for his head yet. 

 

But... What is going on with Astundillo still confounds me.

 

Agreed. And also still 100% confused. He's finally playing and producing! Why did it take so long? Grossman, for example, should NEVER be batting 4th! But he is right now because he has a hot bat? That's a concept Molitor SHOULD have been embracing all along. And I've argued many, many times that if Grossman's chief attribute is working the count and getting OB, then shouldn't he be batting 1st or 2nd if Mauer is out? And I absolutely love his use of Polanco going back to last season even.

 

So is Molitor progressive and experimental? Or is he stubborn as he'll and pigeon holing players? I'm honestly not sure.

[David HK]

 

Looking at his game logs it looks like at Rochester he caught near exclusively in May, then only had a spot inning or two after June 2nd followed by his MLB promotion on June 30th.

 

Yeah, I guess in June someone looked at the Twins organizational catcher depth and said, "Nah, we're good here".

Well, even after BWilson, they kept on adding cuppa-coffee guys like Cameron Rupp and Jordan Pacheco and Juan Graterol and giving them reps in Roch, hoping one of 'em might stick.  So they moved Willians around to accomodate those guys.  Pffffft....

[caninatl04]

 

Choosing Bobby Wilson for any reason is hard to explain.

Maybe he's Belisle's preferred catcher.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

How so? He's not getting by on BABIP. In fact, his BABIP has been well below average this year. His power might regress down, but that BABIP could regress up to make up for it.

If he can keep avoiding strikeouts, he can be successful whether he walks or not.

As I think about it, you are probably right. As long as Astudillo remains a part time player, opponents probably won't spend much time dissecting his swing, and he can hobble along as an all-contact utility guy that way.

 

Although I note that he has no doubles and one very unusual triple, so, singles hitter who doesn't walk, with a couple nice dingers mixed in. But I think his contact skill and defensive versatility has value, and despite the jokes has ok baserunning speed, if statcast is to be believed. Don't know what his exit velo is or projects to be.

[Jham]

and 40 nights ?

He gave up catching for lent.

 

Lent?

 

Well, summer lent.

 

Summer lent?

 

It's when turtles recognize lent.

 

10 4

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In defense of the Twins decision to use Wilson and perhaps a reason the Cubs looked to add him in August.

Berrios has thrown to Wilson for about half of his batter faced this season. With Wilson, Berrios has struck out 28.1% of batters. Without Wilson his rate is 20.9%.

How meaningful is a partial sample of a partial season of this stat, though?

 

FWIW, Berrios had +5% K rate with Gimenez as compared to Castro in 2017. Is that less meaningful to the Cubs or Twins?

[jorgenswest]

 

How meaningful is a partial sample of a partial season of this stat, though?

 

FWIW, Berrios had +5% K rate with Gimenez as compared to Castro in 2017. Is that less meaningful to the Cubs or Twins?

 

The samples are 360 (with Wilson) and 358 (without Wilson). They are not random though as Wilson eventually became Berrios' primary catcher and caught the middle months of the season. 

 

Strikeout rates stabilize earlier than any other plate appearance outcome. If random it might start to become reliable at 150 PAs. It isn't random though.

 

My point was that it might be his ability as a receiver. In my opinion he is the most skilled receiver that Twins have put behind the plate in several years. Some in baseball may not value that skill. I think the Cubs are an organization that does value that skill. Why else would they be interested in him? His very poor bat is well established. 

 

To be clear, my original reply was in response to reading comments similar to ...

 

"How was Wilson able to block Astudillo from playing time?"

 

Maybe I should have just said that it might be his receiving skills rather than highlighting some data.

 

I don't plan on replying and getting into another belabored exchange. I will read your response.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

My point was that it might be his ability as a receiver. In my opinion he is the most skilled receiver that Twins have put behind the plate in several years. Some in baseball may not value that skill. I think the Cubs are an organization that does value that skill. Why else would they be interested in him? His very poor bat is well established.

 

If that's the case, why did the Twins trade him for no discernable benefit? Even when hurt, wouldn't we want to keep him around to help Garver or even Astudillo? If not help our young pitchers in September once he is healthy himself?

 

Also, the Cubs weren't necessarily acquiring Wilson to play him, at least not in the same role as the Twins were doing. They have 2 catchers already -- they could have simply looked to Wilson as a no-cost upgrade over Gimenez for 3rd string. Which doesn't really speak to whether they think his overall skill set is worth regular playing time.

[Linus]

So he just made one of the most athletic plays I have seen from a twins catcher in quite some time. It’s inexplicable to me how he isn’t getting 75% of the remaining innings

[Richie the Rally Goat]

So he just made one of the most athletic plays I have seen from a twins catcher in quite some time. It’s inexplicable to me how he isn’t getting 75% of the remaining innings

i still wanna see Garver get the majority of time behind the dish, but agreed Astudillo should get more than he has gotten.

[TheLeviathan]

I have (I think understandably) tuned out the Twins.  Anyone have a quick and dirty take on his defense so far?

[ashbury]

I have (I think understandably) tuned out the Twins.  Anyone have a quick and dirty take on his defense so far?

QnD: he's been good.

 

The stats show 60 innings so far, he's thrown out 2 of 5 basestealers, no passed balls, 1 wild pitch. This confirms my eye test while watching on teevee. No drama back there. I've said before, he's "quiet" behind the plate, a good trait. I've noticed a reasonable number of well-framed pitches on the corners for strikes - I'm not sure he's a magician but he's not giving away strikes either.

 

I was expecting much different. The one game I saw him in person, that game in Pawtucket, they were hiding him in LF.

 

Catcher is sometimes like Sherlock Holmes's dog that didn't bark. If you have to stop and think about the guy, maybe it means he's doing things right.

[jorgenswest]

I am hopeful. These observations come from watching TV and therefore probably aren’t worthy of writing down.

 

I love his energy and he seems athletic. The tag out play was awesome.

 

He seems to have a good arm and can block pitches.

 

His glove could be more quiet receiving the ball on the edges. He can try to jerk the ball into the zone.

 

There seems to be a communication problem at times. Some at bats are lengthy and he gets shaken off. Is that because he isn’t executing the game plan? Take a look at the last at bat. Hildenberger got ahead and then they couldn’t connect on how to proceed. At 2-2 Perez asked for time twice as Hildenberger and Astudillo couldn’t get on the same page. Pitchers have to have confidence in his pitch calling. He has to know the plan though I am not sure the Twins have any clue on how to pitch to Perez.

 

From my view on the couch it seems like he has enough skill to be at least a mediocre defensive catcher.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

Escobar is only a utility player, that was a said over and over again yet he kept producing. Astudillo just keeps producing so...

quit looking for reasons why he shouldn't be a major league and let the results speak for themselves.