What do the Twins have in Jake Cave?

[adorduan]

I know SSS, But he sure seems to pass the eye test so far.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think the Yankees were trying to sell high on him when he was traded. His minor league numbers are nothing special, but he broke out in a big way in 2017. 

 

Hopefully, we will get to look back on this and talk about how we fleeced NY.

 

I will say this, I think Grossman's days are numbered. Cave is a more than suitable replacement, and he can play CF.

[TheLeviathan]

A guy worth investing playing time in.

[drivlikejehu]

Cave wasn't really hitting in AAA this year though, and his current BABIP is .417. He does look like he can legitimately play CF, which makes him a good 4th outfielder candidate going forward.

[Riverbrian]

No idea what his future holds but I sincerely hope that he gets enough opportunity to give himself a future with his own hands. 

 

Through 71 AB's... Jake Cave has been our best hitter. 

 

In 2018... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, SLG, OPS and is 2nd in OBP. He is 13th in AB's in 2018.  

 

Over the past 30 days... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS. He is 8th in AB's over that same time frame.  

 

Over the Past 15 Days... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, SLG, OPS and is 3rd in OBP (.429).  He is 7th in AB's over that same time frame. 

 

Over the Past 7 days... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, OBP and OPS and is 2nd in SLG (.778). He is 8th in AB's over that same time frame.  

 

He's getting into the lineup so I'm not complaining about that... but... I am using this as another opportunity to point out how actual performance on the field is not and has never really been the primary consideration when it comes to Paul Molitor giving out playing time or who hits at the top of the order.  

 

He might cool off but until then... Let him keep doing it. 

 

 

 

 

[gunnarthor]

He's a fourth OFer but a decent one.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Cave wasn't really hitting in AAA this year though, and his current BABIP is .417. He does look like he can legitimately play CF, which makes him a good 4th outfielder candidate going forward.

Yep. Good pick up but let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

[Riverbrian]

 

Cave wasn't really hitting in AAA this year though, and his current BABIP is .417. He does look like he can legitimately play CF, which makes him a good 4th outfielder candidate going forward.

 

.417 isn't sustainable but he has been stroking the ball pretty good and I believe coming by it honestly. 

 

However... If that .417 is some sort of indication of luck. I'm cool with that... The Twins could really use some lucky hitters. 

[Riverbrian]

Cave hasn't established a Major League base line yet to be confident about his mean to regress to.

 

 

But, His minor league BABIP numbers are consistently above average. Including .414 last year with the RailRiders over 297 AB's. 

 

Maybe this guy can hit a little... Maybe. 

 

 

[ashbury]

However... If that .417 is some sort of indication of luck. I'm cool with that

I don't believe in luck on the baseball diamond. These are guys trying their best, against opponents also trying their best. The plays come out the way they're going to.

 

I do, however, believe in sustainable versus non-sustainable performance, which seem to come and go without advance warning to the manager.

[Rosterman]

If he works at it, he CAN be the 4th outfielder, or the guy you are happy to have if you need someone out there regularly as an injury replacement. He might be a better bat off the bench than anyone on the bench now, and also could DH. Can he be a regular? Well, he is getting the tryout and Buxton isn't helping himself down at Rochester. You never know how hungry people are to get major league money.

[Riverbrian]

 

 

I do, however, believe in sustainable versus non-sustainable performance, which seem to come and go without advance warning to the manager.

 

I'm also cool with a Manager being surprised by the unpredictable changing tide. 

 

I only ask that the Manager is able to notice when the boat is in the water and notice when the boat is on the beach. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

No idea what his future holds but I sincerely hope that he gets enough opportunity to give himself a future with his own hands.

 

Through 71 AB's... Jake Cave has been our best hitter.

 

In 2018... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, SLG, OPS and is 2nd in OBP. He is 13th in AB's in 2018.

 

Over the past 30 days... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS. He is 8th in AB's over that same time frame.

 

Over the Past 15 Days... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, SLG, OPS and is 3rd in OBP (.429). He is 7th in AB's over that same time frame.

 

Over the Past 7 days... Jake Cave leads the team in BA, OBP and OPS and is 2nd in SLG (.778). He is 8th in AB's over that same time frame.

 

He's getting into the lineup so I'm not complaining about that... but... I am using this as another opportunity to point out how actual performance on the field is not and has never really been the primary consideration when it comes to Paul Molitor giving out playing time or who hits at the top of the order.

 

He might cool off but until then... Let him keep doing it.

in the smaller samples of 15 and 7 days being 8th in ABs means he’s playing most days, but batting 7-9 in the order. Why so slow to change?

[Riverbrian]

 

If he works at it, he CAN be the 4th outfielder, or the guy you are happy to have if you need someone out there regularly as an injury replacement. He might be a better bat off the bench than anyone on the bench now, and also could DH. Can he be a regular? Well, he is getting the tryout and Buxton isn't helping himself down at Rochester. You never know how hungry people are to get major league money.

 

I agree with your sentiment with one small issue.

 

I'm not a starting 9 guy so I'm not comfortable with the designation "4th Outfielder". If you make 25 man roster as an outfielder that is what you are... an "outfielder" on the roster. If you make the 25 man roster and you play better than the "3rd outfielder" that 4th outfielder designation gets pretty silly. 

 

I'm just curious to see if he can help us win games and so far he is helping us win games (more so than others). I hope he is given the chance to continue with no illusions if he can or can't. It's up to Molitor to give him a chance for it to be up to him. 

[Riverbrian]

 

in the smaller samples of 15 and 7 days being 8th in ABs means he’s playing most days, but batting 7-9 in the order. Why so slow to change?

 

Playing most days... batting lower in the order and not facing lefties.

 

Why is he batting 8th today? Molitor obviously believes in some sort of consistency... I assume? 

 

Why did it take 3 months (actually 4 years) before moving Dozier out of the lead-off spot?

 

Why did it take 3 months before Sano was moved out of RF in 2016? 

 

Why did Plouffe have an everyday job just moments before becoming a player barely hanging on to a career in AAA because nobody had a major league job for him? 

 

Why hasn't Morrison been batting 9th or 8th when Wilson catches? 

 

There are many questions like the one you just asked me that I can't answer but assume it is some sort of auto-pilot style of making out the lineup. 

 

 

 

 

[Brandon]

Here is the answer you are all looking for.

 

Cave is this generations Randy Bush but can play CF too.

 

Randy Bush was LH and always 8th-10th in plate appearances on the team and a solid bat.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Here is the answer you are all looking for.

 

Cave is this generations Randy Bush but can play CF too.

 

Randy Bush was LH and always 8th-10th in plate appearances on the team and a solid bat.

does that mean that Molitor is not allowed to move on from the way TK did things 25 years ago?

[SheboyganBrats]

Right now, Jake Cave is Lou Gehrig to Byron Buxton's Wally Pipp.

 

Not saying it's going to be that way over the long run, at least I hope not, but right now.......

[ashbury]

I only ask that the Manager is able to notice when the boat is in the water and notice when the boat is on the beach. 

Also, a prevailing wind versus a gust.

[SheboyganBrats]

It would be nice if Molitor would lick his finger and stick it up in the air once in awhile,

[Riverbrian]

 

Also, a prevailing wind versus a gust.

 

April, May and June Twins Offense. 

 

http://imoviequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/8-Tommy-Boy-quotes.gif

[old nurse]

 

Here is the answer you are all looking for.

Cave is this generations Randy Bush but can play CF too.

Randy Bush was LH and always 8th-10th in plate appearances on the team and a solid bat.

Randy Bush played DH for half of his games.  Hopefully Cave will not.

[Monkeypaws]

Too bad Dave has fallen off the face of the Earth:

 

Cave >> Hicks.

[ChrisKnutson]

While I love that Cave’s getting his shot, and running with it, I’m not sure if he’s capable of sustaining this type of production. Yes, he does pass the eye test, but his BB/K ratio and BABIP say this is a fluke.

 

Honestly, I’d much rather see Lamonte Wade, might not be as exciting as Buxton or Cave, but sometimes “boring” is good, and more sustainable.

[Mike Sixel]

Someone who will never be allowed to face a LH pitcher....and a 4th OF or more. glad he's finally up and playing.

[The Wise One]

 

While I love that Cave’s getting his shot, and running with it, I’m not sure if he’s capable of sustaining this type of production. Yes, he does pass the eye test, but his BB/K ratio and BABIP say this is a fluke.

Honestly, I’d much rather see Lamonte Wade, might not be as exciting as Buxton or Cave, but sometimes “boring” is good, and more sustainable.

Why would it be a fluke? He has a high K rate, a low rate of IFFB . That leads to a higher BABIP.   It could be said that 74 AB is not enough to normalize many statistics  for a batter .   His history would suggest a high K, low bb, low iffb, high babip kind of batter.  That is exactly what he has been. Also stuck behind a highly paid outfield in New York and higher ranked prospects

[ashbury]

Why would it be a fluke? He has a high K rate, a low rate of IFFB . That leads to a higher BABIP.  

Infield flies yes, but I think the designers of BABIP would say that strikeouts neither harm nor help one's BABIP. Strikeouts simply are excluded from consideration for batting average for balls in play.

 

I just took a look at the top-20 BABIP among qualified batters this year, and they're all over the map in AB/SO, some above MLB average and some below - if any trend, they're a little better at not striking out, not worse. Same outcome for the bottom-20 in BABIP. Paradox? No, batters who qualify for the batting title collectively strike out less than league average. This doesn't count as a careful study, but I don't see enough there to suggest anyone carry one out.

[JVLMiami]

Good organizations in any field of endeavor, including baseball, adapt to changing facts and circumstances.  They also are not afraid to admit to a mistake or a change in preference.

Maybe Byron Buxton can be a good 8th and 9th inning defensive replacement, a pinch runner when the Twins need a guy who can score a needed run and the guy who plays outfield on the day game after the night game?  He can still contribute, but in a way that is best fitted to his abilities in conjunction with, and recognition of, the abilities of the other 24 guys on the roster.

[The Wise One]

 

Infield flies yes, but I think the designers of BABIP would say that strikeouts neither harm nor help one's BABIP. Strikeouts simply are excluded from consideration for batting average for balls in play.

 

I just took a look at the top-20 BABIP among qualified batters this year, and they're all over the map in AB/SO, some above MLB average and some below - if any trend, they're a little better at not striking out, not worse. Same outcome for the bottom-20 in BABIP. Paradox? No, batters who qualify for the batting title collectively strike out less than league average. This doesn't count as a careful study, but I don't see enough there to suggest anyone carry one out.

Your link  wants my money to see all of the results. 10-20 have  BABIP between .349-.365. That is above league average and not all over the place.  If you have a high K percent then the difference between BA  and BABIP goes up.   So because the BIABP is high people say it is a fluke. >400 is high. Fluke, no. Not normalized, likely. The batted ball data shows a hitter that does hits to all fields.  more line drive type than fly ball/gb. if all of this is normal and the pitchers do not figure out his holes, this could be a real player.

[bird]

 

Yep. Good pick up but let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.

 

Exactly. He's an incremental improvement as a replacement for Grossman, but that move hardly budges the needle.