Reusse on Twins

[gunnarthor]

http://www.startribune.com/falvey-leaves-players-open-mouthed-by-sending-park-to-rochester/417665353/

 

I love Reusse and, unlike some, I don't think he makes **** up or pushes an agenda.  I think he legitimately wants the Twins to be good.  He's saying that players were shocked that Park didn't make the roster and Reusse thinks he knows why:

 

"Molitor wanted veteran Nick Tepesch added to the roster as his long reliever. Falvey made him keep Justin Haley, the Rule 5 draftee, over Tepesch. And since Haley doesn't figure to be reliable as a pitcher to get the Twins from say the fourth to the seventh when needed, it was decided to have two long relievers already on the 40-man roster -- meaning, Tyler Duffey to go with Haley."

[Mike Sixel]

Is Haley likely better than any of these:

 

Duffey

Berrios

Mejia

Gonsalves

Romero

etc.

 

Tepesch

Chargois

Burdi

Meltaksos (sp?)

Hildenberger

Reed

Slegers

etc

 

Why stash a guy with such low upside? And if he has great upside, why not trade a couple of those names for him?

 

And I'm shocked, shocked, that Molitor wanted another veteran on the roster.

 

John Bonnes stated in his thread that it was clear the team was either shocked or angry over the Park decision. Way to work on chemistry, new FO!

[Otto von Ballpark]

I wouldn't mind Haley, but paired with a low-upside veteran bullpen, it's a little uninspiring.

[gunnarthor]

I have no idea where Haley falls on those lists.  He's more ready now than Gonsalves, for instance, but how much that matters?  -shrug-

 

The Twins need SP depth.  I'm not sure he helps there but that's my assumption.  But I'm really worried that he doesn't seem to have Molitor's trust.  We saw how that worked last year for Meyer and Berrios.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

John Bonnes stated in his thread that it was clear the team was either shocked or angry over the Park decision. Way to work on chemistry, new FO!

I'm sure Craig Breslow will get this straightened out!

 

Team meeting!

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't know if Haley really helps "SP depth."  He's a Rule 5 pick.  How many of those guys have made anything more than a few spot starts in their Rule 5 seasons?  Is Haley any more valuable "SP depth" than Wheeler?

[Vanimal46]

 

The Twins need SP depth.  I'm not sure he helps there but that's my assumption.  But I'm really worried that he doesn't seem to have Molitor's trust.  We saw how that worked last year for Meyer and Berrios.  

 

Yep.. It's becoming an alarming trend that there's 1 player hidden in the pitching staff the last 3 seasons... (Graham, Stauffer, Meyer, now Haley) 

If Molitor doesn't trust him, they're wasting another roster spot for a pitcher who will only pitch when they're down or up by 4+ runs. 

[drjim]

 

I don't know if Haley really helps "SP depth."  He's a Rule 5 pick.  How many of those guys have made anything more than a few spot starts in their Rule 5 seasons?  Is Haley any more valuable "SP depth" than Wheeler?

 

I assumed Haley was kept as a long man, but reading more does seem like they are going to hide him. Just doesn't seem worth it.

 

Probably should have kept Wimmers instead, at least he's usable. Keep Park, put Duffey in AAA to get a couple more starts while they check out Hughes. Seems like a better overall roster.

[Willihammer]

I haven't watched a single pitch from Haley this spring. Is his stuff any good? Better/worse than Tepesch's?

[gocgo]

People don't buy tickets to see the 2nd long reliever.  People will buy tickets to see a guy hit a baseball 450 feet though.

[clutterheart]

 

I don’t want to overreact to this absurd decision on Park from the Twins' first-ever Chief Baseball Officer, but does the name of the Timberwolves' first President of Basketball Operations, David Kahn, ring a bell?

 

Comparing Levine to Kahn?  

 

Yikes.  Kahn was probably the worse  team president in MN sports history.  I really really really hope this is the last we see of that....Twins fans have suffered enough.  

[Respy]

 

I haven't watched a single pitch from Haley this spring. Is his stuff any good? Better/worse than Tepesch's?

 

Without consulting the scouting reports, and just going off the little bit I saw this spring, it seemed to me that Haley and Tepesch are rather similar pitchers.  Tepesch seemed to have a bit more control and Haley had a bit more movement.  I think Haley is a tad more deceptive.  Neither was particularly inspiring though.

[Doomtints]

Needing two long relievers says as much about the starting staff as it does about Haley. Haley's inexperience would be much less of a factor if Molitor felt he could trust more than one of the starting pitchers.

[GP830]

My biggest concern here is that the players rolled their eyes upon hearing the news. This may be detail added by the writer, or even a misinterpretation of the situation. But, dissent in the ranks is a much larger problem than not choosing the correct 25 to go north, which can and will likely be rectified in the coming weeks. It tells me that the players are already tired of the decision making process here-- or they're tired of the lack of consistency in these choices. Or simply, they've lost respect.

 

[Blake]

After reading the article by Mr. Reusse, and consulting my navel for a bit, I came up with this:

 

The Twins see no reason to sit Joe Mauer early in the season, so, they gave up the platoon, temporarily, in order to find out where certain pitchers are, such as Hughes. 

 

I think there is a least one pitcher who is on a very short leash and will be gone early, making room for either Vargas or Park.

 

Or, the new FO is giving Molitor lots of rope. 

 

Maybe a bit of both.

[TheLeviathan]

Molitor isn't wrong about Haley.  Basically, Molitor asked for 13 pitchers because one of the 12 guys basically doesn't count.

 

And he's not wrong.  If we have that little faith in Haley, expose him to waivers and balance the team better.

[gunnarthor]

 

Molitor isn't wrong about Haley.  Basically, Molitor asked for 13 pitchers because one of the 12 guys basically doesn't count.

 

And he's not wrong.  If we have that little faith in Haley, expose him to waivers and balance the team better.

Well, he'd go back to Boston, he wouldn't be exposed to waivers.

 

But generally I agree.  My understanding with Haley was that he was a low ceiling/high floor backend starter type that might be in the mix for the 5th spot.  The Twins had the first pick in the rule v draft.  There were players with incredibly higher upside than Haley that we knew would have to be buried in the bullpen but we took a guy who might be ready to pitch in the majors soon.  Haley isn't that guy so it doesn't really make sense to hide him.  Hell, even JR Graham saw a lot of action and got an occasional spot start.  

[KirbyDome89]

The phrase two wrongs don't make a right comes to mind...

 

If Haley really isn't ready then he shouldn't be taking up a roster spot, and Boston can take him back. If the FO is that adamant that he stay on the 25 man then Molitor needs to get over it and use him as the long reliever. Having 13 pitchers at the expense of another bench player (HELLO PARK AT DH!) to start the season is bad enough but when you're carrying 2 long relievers because the manager refuses to throw one of them, its f$%#ing ridiculous. 

 

Molitor can't be trusted at this point to play younger guys and it pisses me off to no end. However, in this instance I would've rather they just granted him another burn out bullpen piece if it meant Park actually started the season in Minnesota. 

 

I see both the decision to force Haley onto the 25 man, and bringing on another long reliever as decisions that hurt the team overall. I can't understand how the Twins can fine with the conclusion. Seriously.....

[howieramone2]

 

My biggest concern here is that the players rolled their eyes upon hearing the news. This may be detail added by the writer, or even a misinterpretation of the situation. But, dissent in the ranks is a much larger problem than not choosing the correct 25 to go north, which can and will likely be rectified in the coming weeks. It tells me that the players are already tired of the decision making process here-- or they're tired of the lack of consistency in these choices. Or simply, they've lost respect.

If they can accept Sano as the starting 3B, this is small potatoes.

[alarp33]

 

Molitor isn't wrong about Haley.  Basically, Molitor asked for 13 pitchers because one of the 12 guys basically doesn't count.

 

And he's not wrong.  If we have that little faith in Haley, expose him to waivers and balance the team better.

 

You don't even need to expose him to waivers. You need to only expose him to Boston (I believe)

[Squirrel]

I haven't watched a single pitch from Haley this spring. Is his stuff any good? Better/worse than Tepesch's?

I wasn't impressed with Tepesch the few times I saw him. But what do I know ... just wasn't all that impressed. Not really with Haley, either, but maybe slightly more than Tepesch.

[USAFChief]

 

I wasn't impressed with Tepesch the few times I saw him. But what do I know ... just wasn't all that impressed. Not really with Haley, either, but maybe slightly more than Tepesch.

Saw Haley throw 3? innings this week.  89-91, touched 92 I think (and supposedly the Hammond Stadium is "hot.")  Nothing particularly noteworthy about off speed stuff.  Decent command, I guess.  *JAG, IMO.

 

 

 

I don't get the entire Justin Haley thing...from why we somehow had the 1st pick in the rule 5 but ended up with the 8th pick--with no known benefit--to the seeming overwhelming need to keep him on the 25 man, so much so they apparently took an extra pitcher to cover for him.

 

*Just A Guy

 

[drjim]

 

Saw Haley throw 3? innings this week.  89-91, touched 92 I think (and supposedly the Hammond Stadium is "hot.")  Nothing particularly noteworthy about off speed stuff.  Decent command, I guess.  *JAG, IMO.

 

 

 

I don't get the entire Justin Haley thing...from why we somehow had the 1st pick in the rule 5 but ended up with the 8th pick--with no known benefit--to the seeming overwhelming need to keep him on the 25 man, so much so they apparently took an extra pitcher to cover for him.

 

*Just A Guy

 

You would think if they were going to keep an additional pitcher to hide the Rule 5 pick, they'd at least take a guy who can throw hard and might need some work on command or a second pitch.

 

I don't get especially worked up about the Rule 5 because the odds are so long, but this seems like it was just a big waste that probably made the team worse, both in the near future and the long run.

[gocgo]

 

Saw Haley throw 3? innings this week.  89-91, touched 92 I think (and supposedly the Hammond Stadium is "hot.")  Nothing particularly noteworthy about off speed stuff.  Decent command, I guess.  *JAG, IMO.

 

 

 

I don't get the entire Justin Haley thing...from why we somehow had the 1st pick in the rule 5 but ended up with the 8th pick--with no known benefit--to the seeming overwhelming need to keep him on the 25 man, so much so they apparently took an extra pitcher to cover for him.

 

*Just A Guy

My understanding on Rule 5's is that they have to STAY on the 25 man roster all year or be offered back to Boston for 25K (we paid 50K).  So, it isn't like this is a temporary thing.  If he isn't truly ready, we are playing a man down all year.

[nicksaviking]

 

Molitor isn't wrong about Haley.  Basically, Molitor asked for 13 pitchers because one of the 12 guys basically doesn't count.

 

And he's not wrong.  If we have that little faith in Haley, expose him to waivers and balance the team better.

 

Sorry, but you're going to have to be more specific, that could be anyone.

 

I thought Molly was supposed to be a lame duck manager. If so why isn't Falvey telling him that he'll get what he gets and he won't throw a fit. My 6-year-old taught me that one.

[drjim]

 

Sorry, but you're going to have to be more specific, that could be anyone.

 

I thought Molly was supposed to be a lame duck manager. If so why isn't Falvey telling him that he'll get what he gets and he won't throw a fit. My 6-year-old taught me that one.

 

How do you know Falvey didn't want this too? He knows what he's got in Haley and 3/5 the rotation.

[Willihammer]

 

My understanding on Rule 5's is that they have to STAY on the 25 man roster all year or be offered back to Boston for 25K (we paid 50K).  So, it isn't like this is a temporary thing.  If he isn't truly ready, we are playing a man down all year.

Correct.

 

I think we're all struggling to make sense out of it.

[ashbury]

If so why isn't Falvey telling him that he'll get what he gets and he won't throw a fit. My 6-year-old taught me that one.

Some kids learn how to take charge early in life.

[Squirrel]

Sorry, but you're going to have to be more specific, that could be anyone.

 

I thought Molly was supposed to be a lame duck manager. If so why isn't Falvey telling him that he'll get what he gets and he won't throw a fit. My 6-year-old taught me that one.

Maybe they are giving Molly what he wants to build a case he needs to go ... yeah, I like a good conspiracy theory. That really isn't one.

[John Bonnes]

I'm glad someone posted this story. I generally agreed with most of what Patrick said, but I'll add a few small changes.

 

1) I don't think this is just about Haley. I think it'a about Haley AND Tonkin. The front office essentially shorted him two relievers and so this is the way he's getting one back - by carrying 13 pitchers.

 

2) I wonder, if there was any thought of leaving any of the other 12 position players off the roster. If so, I would've thought Santana or Escobar, but they would've lost those guys. 

 

3) Reusse mentions Buddy Boshers. He would've been the guy taken off the 40-man, and I'm pretty sure he would've been claimed, or at least I know scouts were there from other teams and asking if he was the one likely to be left off if both Gimenez and he made the roster. But Molitor also said they had talked about who they might move off the 40-man roster and it wasn't a problem. So I can't believe they sweated Boshers.

 

4) In my story a few days ago, I asked a scout about getting someone through waivers lnext week. He said he thought it was easier, because teams don't want to change up their roster unless the guy on waivers is a clear improvement. I guess I could see the Twins doing something like that: waiving Boshers next week to try and get him through and then adding Park and demoting Duffey.