Trevor May will be a Starter

[Mike Sixel]

 

Because it's not clear he utterly dominated AAA.

 

Other than the stats showing that he did, what evidence would you want?

[Linus]

There are a whole bunch of things that have to go the Twins way for them to be competitive this year. Better catching, Sano being ready and May in the rotation are three of them. So we have that going for us....

[USAFChief]

 

Other than the stats showing that he did, what evidence would you want?

Speaking only for myself, while I hope Berrios is in the opening day starting rotation, I don't really care all that much what he did in Rochester.

 

We have 14 starts and 58 innings of big league ball of evidence.  He might not have been ready.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Speaking only for myself, while I hope Berrios is in the opening day starting rotation, I don't really care all that much what he did in Rochester.

 

We have 14 starts and 58 innings of big league ball of evidence.  He might not have been ready.

 

If you wait until a prospect is "ready", you've lost a year or two of major league playing. Very few prospects are finished products, and as the league gets younger and younger, that's more true than ever. At least that's what guys like Maddon and others say in interviews. I kind of trust them....

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't get why anyone wants Berrios in AAA at this point. If your best coach is in the majors, and he utterly dominated AAA, what is the point? 

 

As for Hughes, he's had about half good years, and half bad years. He's had one great year. It is hard to see a LIKELY path where he is great this year.

 

I really believe he could be a very good to great RP, though, and I'd start him there this year, unless he's just blowing serious fastballs this spring.

 

I don't want him back in AAA but if the new front office believes Neil Allen's --**alleged**-- assessment that there was some kind of organizational negligence in pitching development, I could see lots of young pitchers repeating or going back a level to adjust to what the new guys want them to do.

 

And frankly, if someone DOES happen to have an idea as to why so many of the pitchers are struggling, I'm more than willing to give them a shot to fix it, even if it's not the via the method I'd like; that is learning at the MLB level.

 

[USAFChief]

 

If you wait until a prospect is "ready", you've lost a year or two of major league playing. Very few prospects are finished products, and as the league gets younger and younger, that's more true than ever. At least that's what guys like Maddon and others say in interviews. I kind of trust them....

Well you haven't actually "lost" a year or two of MLB time.  You've pushed the start date farther into the future, but you get the same number of years.

[alarp33]

 

Well you haven't actually "lost" a year or two of MLB time.  You've pushed the start date farther into the future, but you get the same number of years.

 

Do you? Pitchers blow out arms all the time.  Would you rather him use up his live bullets in AAA than MLB?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Well you haven't actually "lost" a year or two of MLB time.  You've pushed the start date farther into the future, but you get the same number of years.

 

Other than:

 

1. Pitchers lose velocity over time

2. Pitchers tend to get hurt over time

 

 

sure....

[drjim]

Other than the stats showing that he did, what evidence would you want?

Again, his stats provide hints that his command was not as sharp last year, combined with reports he was struggling throwing quality strikes and lacked plane on the fastball. Not surprising that he struggled with walks and bombs in the bigs.

 

This isn't utterly dominating to me.

[USAFChief]

 

Other than:

 

1. Pitchers lose velocity over time

2. Pitchers tend to get hurt over time

 

 

sure....

Sure, but balance that against wasting a year of service time on someone not ready, to the tune of a 8.02 ERA.

 

It's a tradeoff for sure.  One that is difficult to handicap based off nothing but viewing AAA stats.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, since we don't sit in Rochester and watch games, not sure what people want...

 

It is definitely a trade off.

 

If Berrios can't start, and you can't trade Dozier, and you aren't likely to outbid other teams for SP in FA, well, they are going to need some serious luck.

[Dantes929]

 

I don't get why anyone wants Berrios in AAA at this point. If your best coach is in the majors, and he utterly dominated AAA, what is the point? 

 

As for Hughes, he's had about half good years, and half bad years. He's had one great year. It is hard to see a LIKELY path where he is great this year.

 

I really believe he could be a very good to great RP, though, and I'd start him there this year, unless he's just blowing serious fastballs this spring.

 I am not an advocate for Spring Training being akin to a tryout but this would seem a likely case.  His stint in the majors last year did not go well and I got the impression it was partly because he was trying to listen to Bert, Jack, Eddie, Ervin and Allen all at once and maybe partly nerves.    If he has a good ST he should be #2 behind Santana, IMO.    He has nothing to prove in AAA but confidence can be an iffy thing.

[drjim]

 

 I am not an advocate for Spring Training being akin to a tryout but this would seem a likely case.  His stint in the majors last year did not go well and I got the impression it was partly because he was trying to listen to Bert, Jack, Eddie, Ervin and Allen all at once and maybe partly nerves.    If he has a good ST he should be #2 behind Santana, IMO.    He has nothing to prove in AAA but confidence can be an iffy thing.

 

I agree with this. I look say it would be a mistake to have Berrios penciled into the rotation on Day 1 as Plan A, but absolutely he can earn his way into the opening day rotation. It's not like he's beating out a bunch of studs.

 

But saying he utterly dominated AAA, which is debatable at best, and saying he has nothing to learn at AAA, which was proven pretty wrong from his debut last year, so put him in the bigs, is a massive mistake. I'm confident no major league front office would do that. He definitely has to earn it.

[Mike Sixel]

I didn't say he had nothing to learn......I said nearly every prospect in  baseball comes up before they have nothing left to learn. I literally said that.....so who are you arguing against on that point?

[jimmer]

Other than:

 

1. Pitchers lose velocity over time

2. Pitchers tend to get hurt over time

 

 

sure....

then some get labeled as not very good because they are 'older propsects' :-)

[Vanimal46]

 

Sure, but balance that against wasting a year of service time on someone not ready, to the tune of a 8.02 ERA.

 

It's a tradeoff for sure.  One that is difficult to handicap based off nothing but viewing AAA stats.

He still retains his rookie status this year, so no blood lost. I wanted to see him last year regardless if he was "ready" or not. I want to see him this year as well. Preferably from day 1 in the rotation, and Hughes in the bullpen. 

[d-mac]

 

Personally, I'd be willing to give Duffey another shot at starting. He might need to start in AAA at the beginning of the season, but I'm not quite ready to give up on him there yet.

 

My problem is that I don't want Santiago in the rotation.

 

Santiago really should have been non-tendered. 

[d-mac]

Thank God. May could, you know, actually be a good starter for us if given the chance. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I didn't love the decision to put May in the pen in 2015 but I understood the reasoning. The Twins were contending and they badly needed bullpen arms.

 

But there was no excuse for 2016 to happen. I'm glad to see May going into Spring Training as a starter.

[Physics Guy]

 

He still retains his rookie status this year, so no blood lost. I wanted to see him last year regardless if he was "ready" or not. I want to see him this year as well. Preferably from day 1 in the rotation, and Hughes in the bullpen. 

If you are referring to Berrios, and I believe you are, I'm pretty sure he exceeded his rookie limits.

[ashbury]

I didn't love the decision to put May in the pen in 2015 but I understood the reasoning.

I understood the reasoning too, in the sense that it was expressed in complete sentences with subjects and predicates.

 

I did not understand how they could fail to take into account how much more valuable a good starting pitcher can be than a bullpen arm, if you develop one.

 

I also did not understand how they could take seriously the idea they were in a pennant chase. Yes, embrace a bluebird season when one comes along; acquire a relief pitcher like Jepsen, for PR purposes, sure. (Although paying with any kind of starting prospect exceeded my own threshold of PR value.) But keep a clear-eyed, not-for-publication view of the actual state of your rebuild, and don't jeopardize an actual piece of your future who is already acclimating to his important role in the rotation. This didn't look clear-eyed, and more like they were caught up in the hype too.

 

I understood, but I didn't.

[Mike Sixel]

 

If you are referring to Berrios, and I believe you are, I'm pretty sure he exceeded his rookie limits.

 

I believe you are correct sir (or madam, or other ).

[Vanimal46]

 

If you are referring to Berrios, and I believe you are, I'm pretty sure he exceeded his rookie limits.

You're right I was talking about Berrios. My bad, didn't think he reached 1 year service time yet. 

[laloesch]

I just wonder how much of a money wrench Molitor will try to throw into the situation.  We have 7 potential starters again? (Duffey, May, Gibson, Santiago, Meija, Santana and Berrios).  I guess you could count Haley and Vogelsong but they are on the fringe looking in. 

[drjim]

 

I understood the reasoning too, in the sense that it was expressed in complete sentences with subjects and predicates.

 

I did not understand how they could fail to take into account how much more valuable a good starting pitcher can be than a bullpen arm, if you develop one.

 

I also did not understand how they could take seriously the idea they were in a pennant chase. Yes, embrace a bluebird season when one comes along; acquire a relief pitcher like Jepsen, for PR purposes, sure. (Although paying with any kind of starting prospect exceeded my own threshold of PR value.) But keep a clear-eyed, not-for-publication view of the actual state of your rebuild, and don't jeopardize an actual piece of your future who is already acclimating to his important role in the rotation. This didn't look clear-eyed, and more like they were caught up in the hype too.

 

I understood, but I didn't.

 

I do think the value of a starter over a reliever is overstated in the short term, such as half a season or less. This is especially true when he was not a clear upgrade over a handful of starts. Certainly massively more upside, but not clear he would have outperformed the rest of the year. Development is nice, but winning is even better.

 

The blunder, as stated, was putting him back in the bullpen in 2016, or at the very least not moving him to rotation soon after it was evident it was a lost season (so, week 2).

[Vanimal46]

 

I just wonder how much of a money wrench Molitor will try to throw into the situation.  We have 7 potential starters again? (Duffey, May, Gibson, Santiago, Meija, Santana and Berrios).  I guess you could count Haley and Vogelsong but they are on the fringe looking in. 

It wouldn't surprise me if they defaulted to an all-veteran rotation to start the year - Santana, Gibson, Santiago, May, possibly Hughes...) 

Let's hope they have a quick trigger finger if they struggle. If at the end of the day they're a 70-ish win team, I'd like to see a revolving door and give most pitchers on the 40 man an opportunity to pitch in Minnesota. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I understood the reasoning too, in the sense that it was expressed in complete sentences with subjects and predicates.

 

I did not understand how they could fail to take into account how much more valuable a good starting pitcher can be than a bullpen arm, if you develop one.

 

I also did not understand how they could take seriously the idea they were in a pennant chase. Yes, embrace a bluebird season when one comes along; acquire a relief pitcher like Jepsen, for PR purposes, sure. (Although paying with any kind of starting prospect exceeded my own threshold of PR value.) But keep a clear-eyed, not-for-publication view of the actual state of your rebuild, and don't jeopardize an actual piece of your future who is already acclimating to his important role in the rotation. This didn't look clear-eyed, and more like they were caught up in the hype too.

 

I understood, but I didn't.

Well, they were in a pennant chase. They were still in it until the last series of the season.

 

Had they acquired another bullpen arm before Perkins' disastrous All-Star Break collapse (when they lost three or four games in the 8th/9th over the course of two weeks), they're probably in it until the very end and maybe get into the WC game.

 

That's why I understood the move in 2015. But, again, there was no excuse for 2016.

[Doomtints]

May happened to have a terrible start right before Santana came back.  30 pitches, 1 out, 6 runs. He picked the wrong moment to have a bad game.

 

He was overused last year as a reliever. The Twins clearly wanted him to be the primary set up man. It's harder for me to say that's why he was injured than it is for the rest of you.

[Riverbrian]

Personally I don't care if Berrios starts with the big club or in AAA. 

 

I also don't have a strong opinion on which 5 should make up our rotation on opening day. I'd like to see everybody considered for the rotation and this includes not only May but Rogers and Duffey along with the prospects and pick your best and let's see what happens with the ole' short leash. 

 

Because... I do feel very strongly that there should be extreme intolerance for poor pitching performances. If we go through another year with Plus 5 ERA's in the rotation while the decision makers wait for them to straighten out.... That's when I will become very disappointed.

 

We did that last year.

 

This year... it's time to perform or get tossed into the bullpen or out the door. 

 

The starting pitchers have their framing catcher.... We have an emerging offense... It's time to show you belong in the bigs. I know it can be tricky roster management but it has to happen... the entire rotation besides Santana put in a full season of "I don't belong here numbers"... There shouldn't be another season of that. 

 

Pitch Well or Be Re-Assigned Elsewhere. That should be the 2017 team slogan. Who wants to make up T-Shirts? 

[Loosey]

 

First Sano is in great shape and will be playing largely 3B, and now May is a starter. Things are looking good. I know people wish Falvey/Levine had done more this offseason, but all or nearly all of the moves/decisions they HAVE made have been pretty good so far.

Don't forget Mauer is in the best shape he has been in years.