Vogelsong and Tepesch: Where's the Excitement?

[ScrapTheNickname]

I posted about the signings late last night, then decided I was in over my head analyzing them, so I pulled the post back.

 

But now, because nobody has posted about it, I'm posting.

 

Not too exciting, I don't think.

 

They are both mediocre pitchers and one of them (Vogelsong) will be 40 years old in July and has a career WHIP of 1.4. Yes, he has post-season experience (3 and 5 years ago) ...

 

And the other (Tepesch) would appear to be a AAAA-level starter at best.

 

Ho hum!

 

Where is the new regime?

 

(I know my stats are general, and others will undoubtedly add something more sophisticated and put me to shame - and that's okay).

 

[gunnarthor]

There's nothing wrong with either signing but it's unlikely either will play in the majors this year.  There's not a lot of pitching out there.  The best FA pitcher left is probably Hammel.  That shouldn't excite anyone.  So the Twins are really in a wait and see mode.  

[nicksaviking]

Minor league deals and camp invites shouldn't be too distressing.

 

Though I'm pretty sure I drove to work this morning past three cops going faster than their two-seamers and didn't get pulled over.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Vogelsong hasn't pitched in the minors since 2010, outside of rehab assignments. He must think he has a pretty good shot to make the MLB club here?

[Vanimal46]

 

Vogelsong hasn't pitched in the minors since 2010, outside of rehab assignments. He must think he has a pretty good shot to make the MLB club here?

Good lord let's hope not. I assume it's going to be a spring training audition for another team, or he could have an agreement like Robbie Grossman had with Cleveland.... Where if he's not called up by May 1st, he can opt-out. 

[strumdatjaguar]

Vogelsong isn't 40, he's just 39.   I'm hoping it's not his Swan-song.

[jimmer]

 

Vogelsong isn't 40, he's just 39.  

Probably why he said Vogelsong turns 40 in July as opposed to saying he is 40 :-)

[Thrylos]

They are the replacements for Andrew Albers and Pat Dean pretty much.  

 

Do I like the signings?  No, because they keep players like Romero, Jorge, and Stewart in lower levels than they need to be... 

 

This is just the same old story of dumpster diving.  Nothing new.

Re: the "new" regime:  Look again.  Only the heads changed.  There is the same farm director and the same player evaluators that have been around for a while.  Sounds like Pohlad is going for a soft transition and 2017 will be an assessment year for the Front Office I suspect, so expect this season to be a quasi-Ryan season, unfortunately.
 

 

 

[Squirrel]

And this was brought up in the FA Minor League signings thread in the minor league forum, here.

[nicksaviking]

Vogelsong hasn't pitched in the minors since 2010, outside of rehab assignments. He must think he has a pretty good shot to make the MLB club here?

How's that Sinatra song go? If you can't make it here you can't make it anywhere....

[Seth Stohs]

 

They are the replacements for Andrew Albers and Pat Dean pretty much.  

 

Do I like the signings?  No, because they keep players like Romero, Jorge, and Stewart in lower levels than they need to be... 

 

This is just the same old story of dumpster diving.  Nothing new.

Re: the "new" regime:  Look again.  Only the heads changed.  There is the same farm director and the same player evaluators that have been around for a while.  Sounds like Pohlad is going for a soft transition and 2017 will be an assessment year for the Front Office I suspect, so expect this season to be a quasi-Ryan season, unfortunately.
 

 

Romero  will likely start in Ft. Myers for a month and move up to Chattanooga. 

 

Jay, Gonsalves, Jorge and Stewart, along with Rosario will most likely start in Chattanooga. The only one of those you could make some argument for starting in Rochester is Gonsalves, though I'd doubt it. 

 

Rochester will have Mejia, Slegers and Wheeler, maybe Hurlbut. Maybe Baxendale. So, these guys can go there (if they don't have opt-outs) and make starts until those AA guys are ready. Also, we don't know where Berrios will be how about Duffey, etc. 

[Squirrel]

 

How's that Sinatra song go? If you can't make it here you can't make it anywhere....

It's from 'New York, New York' and the line is: If I can make it there, I'm gonna make it anywhere, It's up to you, New York, New York

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

And this was brought up in the FA Minor League signings thread in the minor league forum, here.

I did not know that.

[Squirrel]

 

I did not know that.

It's okay It's good you made a thread, though, as there seems to be some who want to discuss this separately. But it was becoming a minor league discussion so I moved it here.

[darin617]

No harm in signing either pitcher. You never know when you will have injuries and need a replacement.

[bird]

They are the replacements for Andrew Albers and Pat Dean pretty much.

 

Do I like the signings? No, because they keep players like Romero, Jorge, and Stewart in lower levels than they need to be...

 

This is just the same old story of dumpster diving. Nothing new.

Re: the "new" regime: Look again. Only the heads changed. There is the same farm director and the same player evaluators that have been around for a while. Sounds like Pohlad is going for a soft transition and 2017 will be an assessment year for the Front Office I suspect, so expect this season to be a quasi-Ryan season, unfortunately.

 

What team doesn't sign guys like these? If what you mean here is that this season will be a quasi-Ryan season because virtually all teams do certain things every single year-you know, like bringing in a few long shots to camp-and the new regime is going to do what all teams do, then I agree. Nothing new.

[DocBauer]

No big deal. They signed a couple AAA flyers to flesh out the rotation...maybe. Gonsalves, Mejia and Wheeler and then what else? You've still got to have 5 starters. Everyone takes flyers like this on guys for AAA. Once in a while you even get lucky and find someone useful. The odds are about as good they are released as actually making the Rochester roster. Nothing to be concerned about.

[nicksaviking]

It's from 'New York, New York' and the line is: If I can make it there, I'm gonna make it anywhere, It's up to you, New York, New York

Sorry I forgot the sarcasm emoji.

[beckmt]

This could be as a result of the paper Neil Allen wrote on fastball control.  It could be most of the better prospects will be held back a year to work on it.  Therefore you need filler until the advance starts again.

[Gagne Fan]

It's bad when these guys get spring training invites and guys like Hildenberger and Baxendale don't

Hasbeens over youth is never good

Same ole same ole

[Thrylos]

 

Romero  will likely start in Ft. Myers for a month and move up to Chattanooga. 

 

Jay, Gonsalves, Jorge and Stewart, along with Rosario will most likely start in Chattanooga. The only one of those you could make some argument for starting in Rochester is Gonsalves, though I'd doubt it. 

 

Rochester will have Mejia, Slegers and Wheeler, maybe Hurlbut. Maybe Baxendale. So, these guys can go there (if they don't have opt-outs) and make starts until those AA guys are ready. Also, we don't know where Berrios will be how about Duffey, etc. 

 

I think that Slegers and Baxendale will stay as relievers.  Top of my head rotations with staff right now

 

Twins:

 

Santana
Hughes
Gibson
Santiago
May
(Duffey in pen)

Rochester:

 

Berrios
Mejia
Wheeler
Vogelson (*)
Tepesch (*)
Greenwood (*)

 

Chattanooga:

 

Rucinski (*)
Gonsalves
Jay
Stewart
Jorge
Hurlbut
Eades

 

Fort Myers:

 

Romero
Rosario
Centeno (*)
Steele
LeBlanc
Clay
Stashak

 

(*) = new/re-signed MiLB FAs

 

Not to mention any player(s) who will come in return for Dozier.

 

As you see it is overflowing.  Take those 4 (*) from AAA and AA, move the appropriate people up and everything flows much better.... 

[gunnarthor]

 

It's bad when these guys get spring training invites and guys like Hildenberger and Baxendale don't
Hasbeens over youth is never good
Same ole same ole

Hildenberger will be 26 next year, has thrown 38 innings - all as a reliever - above A ball.  And he's never made a professional start.  He's not being blocked by these signings.

Baxendale is also 26.  While he has made starts above A ball, he hasn't been good at them.  He was moved to the bullpen where he's looked a bit better.  He's not being blocked by these signings.

 

The Twins ST non-rosters invitees include Reed, Slegers and Wimmers who are all better bullpen options than Baxendale and Hildenberger.

[Seth Stohs]

 

I think that Slegers and Baxendale will stay as relievers.  Top of my head rotations with staff right now

 

Twins:

 

Santana
Hughes
Gibson
Santiago
May
(Duffey in pen)

Rochester:

 

Berrios
Mejia
Wheeler
Vogelson (*)
Tepesch (*)
Greenwood (*)

 

Chattanooga:

 

Rucinski (*)
Gonsalves
Jay
Stewart
Jorge
Hurlbut
Eades

 

Fort Myers:

 

Romero
Rosario
Centeno (*)
Steele
LeBlanc
Clay
Stashak

 

(*) = new/re-signed MiLB FAs

 

Not to mention any player(s) who will come in return for Dozier.

 

As you see it is overflowing.  Take those 4 (*) from AAA and AA, move the appropriate people up and everything flows much better.... 

 

I agree with a lot of this.

Slegers has never pitched out of the bullpen, so I would be surprised if he did, especially since the Twins like him enough to invite him to big league camp. 

And, again, I just don't see which players are the "appropriate people" to move up. Gonsalves is the one from Chattanooga that maybe could go to Rochester. Steele and Rosario could start in Chattanooga. But there are always injuries and they need depth.

I also wonder if the Twins and Vogelsong have a deal in which if he's not on the MLB roster on Opening Day, they'll release him. Certainly he'll have an early opt-out date. 

[Gagne Fan]

I disagree with the Wimmers - Baxendale comparison

 

Look at there numbers out of the pen at Rochester, not even close

Wimmers era = 3.62

Bacendale era = 1.29

 

Wimmers promotion was a token so the FO could cover themselves and say another first rounder made it to the big leagues.

 

Compare Chargois and Baxendale's numbers from Rochester

[Gagne Fan]

Also, you say Baxendale hasn't been good in his starts above A ball. You might want to check the stats.

He was a AA All-Star as a starter in 2015 + 2016

 

In his 4 full seasons, he has been an All-Star in 3 of them

[mikelink45]

The Twins news just keeps coming - signing minor league worthy ex-mlbs, talking to Bautista's agent, speculating on Santiago's arbitration and if we have none of these major efforts we can always talk about why the Dodgers aren't opening their minor league vaults for Dozier.  Wow - Spring Training is really getting exciting. 

[lukeduke1980]

There's a good chance that the Vogelsong plan is to get him going a little then invite new Phillie Scout TR to come see him, and make the appropriate deal...

[gunnarthor]

 

I disagree with the Wimmers - Baxendale comparison

Look at there numbers out of the pen at Rochester, not even close
Wimmers era = 3.62
Bacendale era = 1.29

Wimmers promotion was a token so the FO could cover themselves and say another first rounder made it to the big leagues.

Compare Chargois and Baxendale's numbers from Rochester

 

Also, you say Baxendale hasn't been good in his starts above A ball. You might want to check the stats.
He was a AA All-Star as a starter in 2015 + 2016

In his 4 full seasons, he has been an All-Star in 3 of them

I think you're scouting the stat lines a bit.  Baxendale isn't high on many Twins prospect lists.  Fangraphs most recent list didn't even mention him (Chargois was # 15) and Sickels list doesn't have him in the top 20 (Chargois was #10).  While it's nice that he's been an all-star it doesn't really tell us much.  

[Gagne Fan]

Isn't performance on the field all that matters

 

Twins failed "top" prospects

 

Levi Michael

Travis Harrison

Hudson Boyd

 

All we know about a player is how they perform....period

[ashbury]

Isn't performance on the field all that matters

 

Twins failed "top" prospects

 

Levi Michael

Travis Harrison

Hudson Boyd

 

All we know about a player is how they perform....period

Moderator's note: Inviting yet another retrospective upon the old front office's late-first-round draft picks goes pretty far afield of the topic of this thread: two minor league signings of veteran pitchers. Please start a different thread if such a discussion appeals to you.