Mike Napoli

[gunnarthor]

 

Napoli will have no trade value at the deadline.
How often do DH's get moved at the deadline?
He was a 1 WAR player last season, and I can't see him improving on that. And his age and K rate make him a big time regression candidate.

Well, Marlon Byrd was hitting .237/.286/.448 with 23 HR and traded from Cincy to SF in so Napoli could have value.  Teams value power down the stretch.  If he's hitting like that, the return wouldn't be much but some team would probably give up something.

 

Not sure how often DH's get moved but it's fairly common.  Probably a couple a year - last year Beltran was picked up by the Rangers and used almost exclusively at DH.  Steve Pearce was a 1B/DH guy that was moved.  The year before you saw guys like Byrd and Napoli moved.  

 

I agree with your last part which is why I'd rather go with Park.  

[clone52]

 

If it's leadership you want to sign him for, I'd rather take Hunter or Cuddyer out of the front office.  They could give us outfield defense as good as Grossman with a decent bat and just as realistic as Napoli without clogging the 1B/DH situation.  Just say no to Napoli.

 

Do we really know if the new front office feels the 1B/DH situation is clogged?  They already let ABW go for nothing.  Do we know how they feel about Park and Vargas?  They might not be high on Vargas or Park. 

 

Lets say that the Twins pull off a Dozier for Bellinger/De Leon trade.  That hopefully sets up 1B for the future.  What value does Vargas have to the Twins then?

 

I say, if you can bring a guy in that can maybe show the younger guys who to be professionals and that losing is unacceptable, its worth doing.

 

Napoli has been on 90 win teams all but 2 seasons of his career.  If anyone knows what it takes to be a winning team, its him.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

If Park and/or Vargas are pieces to trades that bring back Pitching or starting caliber slick fielding Shortstop then I'd be ok w/ signing Napoli  

[Mike Sixel]

 

The benefit Napoli could have long term is instilling a winning culture.  Maybe he could show these young kids that losing is unacceptable.

 

I'm sure they just aren't trying and don't care...

 

Also, you know, you only get 25 roster spots, if one is used up to be a coach, you are now down to 24....also, he legit blocks Vargas and Park, and maybe Sano.

 

What if Sano hurts his arm, for the third year in a row? Play with 24 players, effectively?

[Mike Sixel]

 

If Park and/or Vargas are pieces to trades that bring back Pitching or starting caliber slick fielding Shortstop then I'd be ok w/ signing Napoli  

 

Uh, neither is being traded for a MLB player. They couldn't even make a 103 loss team last year.

[clone52]

 

I'm sure they just aren't trying and don't care...

 

Also, you know, you only get 25 roster spots, if one is used up to be a coach, you are now down to 24....also, he legit blocks Vargas and Park, and maybe Sano.

 

What if Sano hurts his arm, for the third year in a row? Play with 24 players, effectively?

 

I'm just going by Cuddyer's comments on changes in the culture in the Twins minor league system.  Over his career, it went from "win, win, win" to "I, I, I".

 

Hey, I like Vargas, but its not like he a sure thing as the future of 1B.  We're also probably only talking about 1 year of Napoli.  And for all we know, the front office maybe doesn't like Vargas and see him in their future plans at all.  The same things could be said about Park.

[Mike Sixel]

Cudddy spent, what, 2 weeks or 4 in the minors? Over what time frame?

 

As for park and Vargas.....ok, fine, he replaces them for 1 year (blocking Sano and Mauer)....then what the next year?

[clone52]

 

I'm sure they just aren't trying and don't care...

 

Also, you know, you only get 25 roster spots, if one is used up to be a coach, you are now down to 24....also, he legit blocks Vargas and Park, and maybe Sano.

 

What if Sano hurts his arm, for the third year in a row? Play with 24 players, effectively?

 

If the front office thinks Park or Vargas is the real deal and the future at 1B, then no need to sign Napoli.  If the front office doesn't see Vargas or Park in the long term plans, then bringing in a veteran like Napoli has no downside.

 

For all we know, they could be looking at Napoli as purely a pinch hitter/bench player.  I don't know.

[Brandon Warne]

Love it. Has the personality the team should identify with, won't require a long-term commitment and is a f***ing masher. 

 

Also signals a commitment to Sano at third base -- which I love. 

[clone52]

 

Cudddy spent, what, 2 weeks or 4 in the minors? Over what time frame?

 

As for park and Vargas.....ok, fine, he replaces them for 1 year (blocking Sano and Mauer)....then what the next year?

 

Do you really think Cuddyer is wrong?  There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that shows it.  How many times have we heard of players who instead of listening to coaches and working on their flaws are instead just trying to put on a home run show during batting practice?  How many people have complained that Joe Mauer isn't a leader?  How many people complained that the team's veterans didn't really speak up and tell the young guys how to act?   Plus, the fact that Torii Hunter turned things around so significantly in his one season back here also points to this as a big issue.

[USAFChief]

Not necessarily happy about Napoli, specifically.

 

Ecstatic if it signals a belief that they can and should try to compete in 2017.

 

And sign me up for Joey Bats!

[USAFChief]

Uh, neither is being traded for a MLB player. They couldn't even make a 103 loss team last year.

Then what's the problem with moving on from them?

[Pardon My Dinger]

I understand he throws one hell of a party. 

[jimmer]

Plus, the fact that Torii Hunter turned things around so significantly in his one season back here also points to this as a big issue.

That is NOT a fact. Please Prove that his presense is what caused us to do what happened in 2015. It is a logical fallacy called post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

We had one incredible month in May. Our runs scored for the season was way out of whack with our actual offensive stats.

[CJP]

I would gladly take the clubhouse leadership that he provides and the additional power at first base and DH would be big. But given how bad our pitching is it doesn't make sense to invest in veterans until we start to become more competitive again. Vargas or Park may surprise us this year should they remain healthy. If we perform poorly again this year we can at least get good picks in the draft. There is no incentive in paying extra money to be a below average team.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

Uh, neither is being traded for a MLB player. They couldn't even make a 103 loss team last year.

I didn't say 1:1, I said pieces. Maybe unlikely, but say in the Dozier trade deal that returns a good package, Park or Vargas are floated as pieces of the deal. It would be reasonable to sign Napoli as a replacement.

[gunnarthor]

 

Do you really think Cuddyer is wrong?  There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that shows it.  How many times have we heard of players who instead of listening to coaches and working on their flaws are instead just trying to put on a home run show during batting practice?  How many people have complained that Joe Mauer isn't a leader?  How many people complained that the team's veterans didn't really speak up and tell the young guys how to act?   Plus, the fact that Torii Hunter turned things around so significantly in his one season back here also points to this as a big issue.

Yeah, this is sort of how I feel.  I thought last years team gave up pretty early in the season.  Sure, you can complain about the roster all you want but that team massively under achieved.  Molitor doesn't seem able to fix/understand it so maybe you find some vocal clubhouse leaders who can.  I don't know if it'll work but it's worth trying.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Do you really think Cuddyer is wrong?  There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that shows it.  How many times have we heard of players who instead of listening to coaches and working on their flaws are instead just trying to put on a home run show during batting practice?  How many people have complained that Joe Mauer isn't a leader?  How many people complained that the team's veterans didn't really speak up and tell the young guys how to act?   Plus, the fact that Torii Hunter turned things around so significantly in his one season back here also points to this as a big issue.

 

I have no idea...and if you think Hunter was the secret sauce, why did NO ONE sign him for the following year? I mean, if he can single handedly help a team win 10-20 games, that is worth, what, $80-100MM per year, right?

[DocBauer]

He provides a veteran presence and possibly leadership and a big power bat to offset the lost of Dozier. I doubt he'd be overly expensive or long term.

 

But absolutely nit unless you are going to somehow, someway move Mayer-Vargas-Park for something. Grossman can also DH some. Just doesn't make any sense unless there is some house cleaning taking place.

[Thrylos]

 

If they are going to at all attempt to be competitive in 2017, wouldn't you argue that Napoli is an upgrade over Vargas and Park? I mean, maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but he certainly was a lot better in 2016 than either of them were.

 

I'm not saying I want the signing to happen, but I can almost see the rationale.

 

Competitive in 2017?

 

This would require:

 

No Dozier or Santana trades, getting Phil Hughes back 100%, getting 2 SPs better than Hughes, Santana, Gibson (who would be the tail end of the rotation), getting 2 bullpen arms as a closer and set-up man.

 

(good luck)

 

In other words, getting maybe 1 more win than the Vargas and Park duo can provide vs Napoli, is really more like chapstick (not even lipstick) on that 2016 pig...

[Mike Sixel]

 

Then what's the problem with moving on from them?

 

We don't know, at all, if Park is good. No one does. I'd rather take a chance on Park or Vargas, than have a guy around for 1 year, who will then leave.

 

Let's pretend that Napoli is some magician, that can help a team win 10 games as a leader:

 

a: why is he not signed for YUGE dollars?

b: what good does that do THIS TEAM for 1 year?

[Jerr]

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[darin617]

I was thinking they were gonna bring him in to either play short, starting pitcher, or make him into a closer. Not sure which of the 3 they have in mind.

[gunnarthor]

 

I have no idea...and if you think Hunter was the secret sauce, why did NO ONE sign him for the following year? I mean, if he can single handedly help a team win 10-20 games, that is worth, what, $80-100MM per year, right?

No one thinks Hunter is worth 10-20 million.  But a solid clubhouse might help teams from underachieving.  I know you like baseruns.  The 2015 team was a 76 win baserun team, the 2016 team was a 71 win baserun team.  This Twins team was brutal to watch and it did seem to observers that the players generally didn't give a ****.  I don't see why the idea of improving the clubhouse culture is even remotely controversial.  Every article about the current T-Wolves is a version of 'they have to learn to win.'  

 

I think we should give Park another shot but seeing how he hits AAA pitching for a month might not be the worst idea.  Vargas is not a ML quality player.  Mauer is almost done and fragile.  They'll probably need to improve their options at 1B/DH.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

I'm not sure it would signal win now.... It signals more to me that they don't have any faith in Park and/or Vargas. 

We've been preaching that Sano should get all of 2017 to sink or swim at 3B... Can't imagine Napoli would sign a multi-year contract. 

Napoli would surely sign one, but I'm sure Levine would not offer one to him.

[Mike Sixel]

 

No one thinks Hunter is worth 10-20 million.  But a solid clubhouse might help teams from underachieving.  I know you like baseruns.  The 2015 team was a 76 win baserun team, the 2016 team was a 71 win baserun team.  This Twins team was brutal to watch and it did seem to observers that the players generally didn't give a ****.  I don't see why the idea of improving the clubhouse culture is even remotely controversial.  Every article about the current T-Wolves is a version of 'they have to learn to win.'  

 

I think we should give Park another shot but seeing how he hits AAA pitching for a month might not be the worst idea.  Vargas is not a ML quality player.  Mauer is almost done and fragile.  They'll probably need to improve their options at 1B/DH.

 

Next year only? Because it is a 1 year deal, right?

 

1 WAR.....that's what he was last year....

[Vanimal46]

 

Next year only? Because it is a 1 year deal, right?

 

1 WAR.....that's what he was last year....

Does WAR really matter all that much for a DH? I mean it's always going to be skewed lower because defense doesn't play a role in their calculations.... David Ortiz led all qualified DHs with 4.4 WAR and was an MVP candidate. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Does WAR really matter all that much for a DH? I mean it's always going to be skewed lower because defense doesn't play a role in their calculations.... David Ortiz led all qualified DHs with 4.4 WAR and was an MVP candidate. 

 

Pick a different stat......and if he's worth more than 1, he's worth more than $8MM......

 

I hope, if they sign him, he teaches Buxton and Kepler how to care about winning.....

[gunnarthor]

 

Next year only? Because it is a 1 year deal, right?

 

 

So?  They could re-sign him.  They could re-evaluate Sano at third.  Park might prove he belongs in the majors.  There might be better external options.  I don't know if they really need to worry about 2018 before worrying about 2017.  I think it's probably enough to know that Vargas isn't the answer.  

 

Look. I don't know if Napoli is the best option.  I am pretty much the low man on Vargas but I like Park more than most and would give him another shot.  But I'm not smarter than Levine or Falvey.  They have a pretty good idea of both the talent level and what makes a team better.  (Those aren't necessarily the same).  And I'm not going to complain if the team adds more talent and is forced to kick away lesser players. 

[Monkeypaws]

Didn't they cut Walker loose because they had too many corner OF/1B/DH types?

 

How does adding a much older more expensive version of the all or nothing hitter help the rebuild?

 

Haven't the Twins' minor league teams been racking up championships, or at least making playoffs? Doesn't that define building a winning culture from the bottom up?

 

This rumor does nothing but raise questions for me.