Can the Twins Afford to Release Mauer?

[DrNeau]

So, can the Twins afford to release Mauer or not? That's the discussion title. Let's put a vote together: I vote 'yes'.

 

Joe Mauer's Ranks - 2016 MLB 1B (of 23 with qualifying ABs):
* OPS: 19th
* Hard-Hit Balls %: 23rd (LAST)
* Home Runs: 22nd (next to LAST)
* RBIs: 23rd (LAST)
* Isolated Power: 22nd (next to LAST)
* SLG: 22nd (next to LAST)
* Extra-Base Hits: LAST (ESPN)

 

 

[HitInAPinch]

 

So, can the Twins afford to release Mauer or not? That's the discussion title. Let's put a vote together: I vote 'yes'.

 

Joe Mauer's Ranks - 2016 MLB 1B (of 23 with qualifying ABs):
* OPS: 19th
* Hard-Hit Balls %: 23rd (LAST)
* Home Runs: 22nd (next to LAST)
* RBIs: 23rd (LAST)
* Isolated Power: 22nd (next to LAST)
* SLG: 22nd (next to LAST)
* Extra-Base Hits: LAST (ESPN)

 

The answer is No.  The stats don't matter.  Joe has a guaranteed contract thru 2018.  As a GM for another team, would you, right now, trade for Joe Mauer and his $46M remaining?

 

The best the Twins could do is ask Joe to accept a buy-out of some type.  I suspect that might be a hard sell.

 

The only way Joe leaves is on his own terms.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The answer is No.  The stats don't matter.  Joe has a guaranteed contract thru 2018.  As a GM for another team, would you, right now, trade for Joe Mauer and his $46M remaining?

 

The best the Twins could do is ask Joe to accept a buy-out of some type.  I suspect that might be a hard sell.

 

The only way Joe leaves is on his own terms.

 

Why can't they just cut him? they pay him either way......I mean, putting aside no one does that....why can't they?

[peterb18]

yes and know on Joe...  He's not out performing Vargas right now, and there's a decent chance that Park figures things out at some point as well.  I don't see the Twins doing anything about Joe come 2017, but I've got to think that with guys like Park, Palka, and Walker angling for PT that at some point Mauer will be the odd man out in terms of his production.

The key point is that Joe is playing a position that could be considered a "development position". It is a position that others need to play in order to develop. Especially Vargas and a few others. Joe should be driving in more runs....considering the position he plays in the field and his position in the batting order.

[Linus]

So, can the Twins afford to release Mauer or not? That's the discussion title. Let's put a vote together: I vote 'yes'.

 

Joe Mauer's Ranks - 2016 MLB 1B (of 23 with qualifying ABs):

* OPS: 19th

* Hard-Hit Balls %: 23rd (LAST)

* Home Runs: 22nd (next to LAST)

* RBIs: 23rd (LAST)

* Isolated Power: 22nd (next to LAST)

* SLG: 22nd (next to LAST)

* Extra-Base Hits: LAST (ESPN)

No. I like his glove and obp, especially if he sits against lefties. Plus I want to see you tortured for the next two years.☺

[zchrz]

 

I haven't had time to read through past couple of pages so forgive me if I'm covering something already touched on, but, I've had an idea recently that I like.

Let's say Mauer did retire, was bought out to do so, etc. What about Dozier to 1B, Polanco to 2B and either a trade or FA signing for SS?

Granted Dozier isn't the typical 1B in regard to target size, but he has good hands, excellent range for the position, and should be great on pop flies down the line, etc. He certainly has the bat. You now have Polanco in the lineup at a spot, supposedly/reportedly that he's better suited for, and you shore up the infield defense by acquiring said SS.

Thoughts?

 

I think it is wasting Dozier's biggest spot of value to move him off 2nd.  It would also waste the opportunity to stick a slugger or athletically/ defensively challenged big guy at 1st, we already have a log jam of assets piling up there no need to add to it. 

 

One of Dozier/ Polanco needs to get traded for pitching unless they really want to go with Polanco at SS. 

[BK432]

Answering the question, could they afford to....sure! They're paying him the money to play, so they can surely pay him the money not to play. The alternatives to his playing time are either:

 

a) already on the roster; or

almost certainly affordable call-ups or acquisitions

 

The flip side questions:

 

Will they? No.

 

Should they? Probably not, but I don't think that's entirely clear. Guys like Park or Vargas could benefit from more of an opportunity. Can they substitute for Mauer's OBP elsewhere? Is it important in the next two years that they find that? Not sure....

[Craig Arko]

No. I like his glove and obp, especially if he sits against lefties. Plus I want to see you tortured for the next two years.☺

That's just evil.

 

I like it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Are there 25 people better than Mauer in the organization right now?

 

No. Joe still has a specific skillset that's useful.

 

And if there aren't 25 people better than Joe, you don't cut him. Bench him, maybe. Platoon him, sure. But I don't see the point in cutting him.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Why can't they just cut him? they pay him either way......I mean, putting aside no one does that....why can't they?

Financial. 

 

Twins Total Adjusted Salary is $111,732,610.00.

Mauer's contract guarantee's $46,000.000.00 the final 2 years. 

I believe if you cut Mauer, those term's are still enforced.

 

A son of a banker, and banker in his own right, wouldn't accept that.  That's a lot of money over 2 years with nothing in return for that investment.  Not sure about any "cap" affect.

 

Like I said, if Jim Pohlad were to break that out into a package of some type [retirement payments, whatever], that would be more palatable.  And probably takes that money off the Twins books.  Not sure on that one, either  

 

And I'm also on the side that says:  Let Joe retire with some dignity. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Financial. 

 

Twins Total Adjusted Salary is $111,732,610.00.

Mauer's contract guarantee's $46,000.000.00 the final 2 years. 

I believe if you cut Mauer, those term's are still enforced.

 

A son of a banker, and banker in his own right, wouldn't accept that.  That's a lot of money over 2 years with nothing in return for that investment.  Not sure about any "cap" affect.

 

Like I said, if Jim Pohlad were to break that out into a package of some type [retirement payments, whatever], that would be more palatable.  And probably takes that money off the Twins books.  Not sure on that one, either  

 

And I'm also on the side that says:  Let Joe retire with some dignity. 

 

Uh, you pay whether he plays or not.....someone who is an owner of a bank knows the question isn't about Mauer, it is about what is the best path....Mauer who isn't all that good, or Park or Vargas or Sano at 1B and someone else filling where those players played. 

 

The Twins owe Mauer nothing about "retiring with dignity", if he's not good, they owe him nothing.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Uh, you pay whether he plays or not.....someone who is an owner of a bank knows the question isn't about Mauer, it is about what is the best path....Mauer who isn't all that good, or Park or Vargas or Sano at 1B and someone else filling where those players played. 

 

The Twins owe Mauer nothing about "retiring with dignity", if he's not good, they owe him nothing.

You spread out the payments over time and reduce the payroll burden over that time. 

 

As far as the last part:  I got nothing.

[Mr. Brooks]

You spread out the payments over time and reduce the payroll burden over that time.

 

As far as the last part: I got nothing.

Unless you are going to add interest, what is the incentive for Mauer to accept that?

He's losing a massive amount of money by spreading it out over 25 years, instead of investing it.

 

I know we all love this myth about Joe being this local boy next door who would do anything for the team, but he's no different than anyone else.

Nobody is giving up guaranteed money for nothing, nor should he.

[Mike Sixel]

He shouldn't, agreed. I certainly didn't suggest that. But, what they owe him now has no real bearing on what they do with him...because whomever replaces him on the 25 man roster is likely to cost next to nothing.....

 

Joe for 46MM

Rookie for 46.5MM

 

Is it better to spend that .5 MM, and either get a better player (now, or in a year or two with experience), or better to not spend that .5MM and play Joe.

 

That should be the question...

[nicksaviking]

 

Are there 25 people better than Mauer in the organization right now?

No. Joe still has a specific skillset that's useful.

And if there aren't 25 people better than Joe, you don't cut him. Bench him, maybe. Platoon him, sure. But I don't see the point in cutting him.

 

I agree in principle, but then you have to have a manager that buys into the bench/platoon option. You could also say the same thing about Plouffe. Or Suzuki. Or Milone.

[Doomtints]

I agree that, at this time, releasing Mauer isn't the right option, even if his contract is ignored.  He brings enough to the table to keep around.

 

However, it is essential that the Twins give him some rest.  Whether that means platooning him or simply giving him days off it doesn't matter to me.  The Twins need to keep him on a pace to play 120-130 games in a year, because if they don't he'll end up injured and that's all they'll get out of him anyway.  This will also mean he'll be terrible for a stretch before the Twins realize he's too banged up to play.

[USAFChief]

Are there 25 people better than Mauer in the organization right now?

 

No. Joe still has a specific skillset that's useful.

 

And if there aren't 25 people better than Joe, you don't cut him. Bench him, maybe. Platoon him, sure. But I don't see the point in cutting him.

"25 people" isn't the comparison. We're not comparing him to the pitching staff.

 

He only plays 1b and DH. Compare him to the options at those spots. You might still come to the same conclusion, but at least make the proper evaluation.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

"25 people" isn't the comparison. We're not comparing him to the pitching staff.

He only plays 1b and DH. Compare him to the options at those spots. You might still come to the same conclusion, but at least make the proper evaluation.

Well, yeah, that's what I meant. Plouffe should be out of the picture so no competition from him. Vargas should be on the roster but doesn't have good RHP splits. Park is a question mark and should be relied upon for nothing.

 

A Mauer/Vargas platoon makes the most sense to me. It doesn't have to be a strict platoon but the numbers should lean toward Mauer vs. righties and Vargas vs. lefties.

[Rosterman]

Is he still Mr. Minnesota Twins or not, that is the question. What are the plans after his contract expires? Does he really want to play? Does he want to stay with Minnesota in some capacity? Is he front office or field staff possible? Will he remain an ambassador for the Twins? Or does he desire a ring? Would he be happy being pawned off somewhere else for his alst two years? Will he continue playing with anyone that calls come 2019?

 

It is a sunk cost. He costs the money if you play him or not, if you release him or disable him. If there is a trading partner, yous till eat some of the contract.

 

Yes, it would be nice if he could catch again (but he can't). If he could play third if the need arose. If he could even play in the outfield (didn't Kepler play some first base once, not that we need more first basemen).

 

Yes, the scheme of things the Twins have to decide soon on the first base/DH position, who they have or want to play there. Is Plouffe a possibility...but he only ahs one year left before free agency? Is Sano a future guy there, but then who plays third? Is Vargas a fulltimer, or Park for that matter? The Twins have a couple of prospects who might shuffle into the mix come the end of 2018, but doubtful if they would be ready to start fulltime. And then you have DH which has many of the names above as well as Walker and Palka.

[Taildragger8791]

 

I agree that, at this time, releasing Mauer isn't the right option, even if his contract is ignored.  He brings enough to the table to keep around.

 

However, it is essential that the Twins give him some rest.  Whether that means platooning him or simply giving him days off it doesn't matter to me.  The Twins need to keep him on a pace to play 120-130 games in a year, because if they don't he'll end up injured and that's all they'll get out of him anyway.  This will also mean he'll be terrible for a stretch before the Twins realize he's too banged up to play.

 

I'd probably lower the bar to 100 games, unless his performance and health dictate more. He only played 134 this year and looked like his legs were a wreck. His should be a backup & bench bat, playing mostly on the advantageous side of platoon splits when possible. I don't want to see Vargas & Park get shoved to the side for Mauer next year. He still has value in those roles with what skills he has left. Then revisit after next season to see if he his final year should be cut based on how things went in 2017.

[Doomtints]

 

I'd probably lower the bar to 100 games, unless his performance and health dictate more. He only played 134 this year and looked like his legs were a wreck. His should be a backup & bench bat, playing mostly on the advantageous side of platoon splits when possible. I don't want to see Vargas & Park get shoved to the side for Mauer next year. He still has value in those roles with what skills he has left. Then revisit after next season to see if he his final year should be cut based on how things went in 2017.

 

My theory is that if he is given days off every week throughout the season -- 30-40 days off -- he'll be fine.  So I think he can do 120-130 games without injury as long as he gets the days off.  

Play him more than that, and he'll get injured and give you the same amount of games.  

[laloesch]

Sigh.  Never gonna happen.  Threads like this become tiring after a while.  The only way Joe steps away is if his health is that bad.  But i agree with other posters he shouldn't start more than 2 games in a row and should bounce back and forth between 1st & DH for the remaining 2 seasons of his deal with the Twins.  

 

The only hiccup is that unless ownership, Falvey, new GM and Molitor agree to use him in more of a part time fashion it ain't gonna happen in a million years.  Despite only having two years left on his deal the twins still have a TON of money committed to him (almost 50 million).

 

In his final start though the Twins should let him catch the game and go out as a catcher (his glory years).

[Taildragger8791]

 

My theory is that if he is given days off every week throughout the season -- 30-40 days off -- he'll be fine.  So I think he can do 120-130 games without injury as long as he gets the days off.  

Play him more than that, and he'll get injured and give you the same amount of games.  

 

That's reasonable and could work if the manager adhered to it. My other thought was if he plays 120-130 games it probably means someone else got their playing time cut. Someone that needs that time for development and evaluation, such as Park/Vargas and potentially Palka/Walker later in the year. I'd like to emphasize development next year so we can have a clearer picture going into 2018 on where everybody stands.

[laloesch]

 

That's reasonable and could work if the manager adhered to it. My other thought was if he plays 120-130 games it probably means someone else got their playing time cut. Someone that needs that time for development and evaluation, such as Park/Vargas and potentially Palka/Walker later in the year. I'd like to emphasize development next year so we can have a clearer picture going into 2018 on where everybody stands.

 

Yep.  And the Twins are gonna have to start making difficult decisions this off season beginning with Vargas and a few others.  I too would like to see what Walker could do at the major league level next year at some point.  I know some here just can't stand him which is understandable, but i think he's a diamond in the rough.

 

Sure he strikes out a lot, batting average isn't ideal and his plate approach could still use significant improvement but if the Twins could further develop him besides the raw power which he was drafted and signed for as a prospect in 2012 they could have something here.  

 

The home runs and incredible power have always been there just the plate discipline that has held him back.  If he could continue that progression at the next level  it would create roster flexibility for the major league team and possibly allow them to move Kepler to first if Vargas doesn't work out or trade Rosario.    

[Mike Sixel]

Other teams bench high priced players, or play them less, I don't understand why that can't happen here...

[nicksaviking]

 

Well, yeah, that's what I meant. Plouffe should be out of the picture so no competition from him. Vargas should be on the roster but doesn't have good RHP splits. Park is a question mark and should be relied upon for nothing.

 

A Mauer/Vargas platoon makes the most sense to me. It doesn't have to be a strict platoon but the numbers should lean toward Mauer vs. righties and Vargas vs. lefties.

 

 

Just a hypothetical then: You're the GM and the manager flat out tells you that Joe Mauer is going to bat 3rd and will be his full-time 1B in 2017 come rain or shine and you can't stop him from setting his lineup. You can make any player moves you wish but you cannot make a managerial move.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Just a hypothetical then: You're the GM and the manager flat out tells you that Joe Mauer is going to bat 3rd and will be his full-time 1B in 2017 come rain or shine and you can't stop him from setting his lineup. You can make any player moves you wish but you cannot make a managerial move.

I quit my job and go back to Cleveland. And yes, I'm serious about that.

 

If the manager is dead-set against your strategy, you're his boss, and he dictates policy to you, that's not a place I continue to work, particularly if my skills are in-demand and I have plenty of other opportunities.

[laloesch]

 

Just a hypothetical then: You're the GM and the manager flat out tells you that Joe Mauer is going to bat 3rd and will be his full-time 1B in 2017 come rain or shine and you can't stop him from setting his lineup. You can make any player moves you wish but you cannot make a managerial move.

 

I'd fire the manager because as GM or President of Baseball operations (Falvey), i have that authority over you (part of the chain of command) and you better dam well follow my orders or your finished.   

 

 

[ashbury]

In his final start though the Twins should let him catch the game and go out as a catcher (his glory years).

He'll be very rusty. Not a risk I'm willing to take, in the 7th game of the World Series.

[laloesch]

 

Not a risk I'm willing to take, in the 7th game of the World Series.

 

Haha, that would be a good predicament to be in by 2018.