Arcia Traded to the Rays

[alarp33]

 

Arcia has no fit with the Twins at all.  He's not good in the OF and blocks Kepler if he does play out there.  DH is filled by Park or Sano.  

 

Santana at least has value as a late inning pinch runner or defensive replacement.

 

Have you seen Park by chance?

 

Danny Santana has pinch run 3 times this year, and been a defensive replacement 0 times (because he's not good defensively of course).  But sure, that's providing tons of value to the Twins... -2.8 WAR of value since 2015!

[alarp33]

I'm curious if Park didn't have a 3 year contract what people would say about him.  Say he was just a near 30 year old who had hit a ton of minor league home runs getting a 1st taste in the majors.  

 

I know what I would say... he can't hit a Major League fastball, no use for him

[jokin]

 

Meanwhile Robbie Grossman has continued his extremely predictable crash back to earth.

.170/.302/.264 in his last 15 games and it keeps getting worse and worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arcia passes him OPS wise by the all star break.

Meanwhile Park continues to embarrass himself at the plate as the average has dipped below .200 and the OPS below .690. In his last 30 games Park is sporting a nifty .123/.208/.236 line with a 39.8% k rate that would make even Juan Castro blush. Why isn't he in AAA again?

You can't make it up.

 

Dang it- thanks for the brutal Truth. I wonder if the Twins are even tracking how Park is trending?

 

The Nishi comps from last spring are ringing ever more true.... And similar questions must be raised...   

 

1) How was this guy slugging champion of any league but a town softball team?

2) How can we be certain that the South Korean Baseball League didn't send us a doppelganger? 

3) Can it get any lower than the current state... where we as fans feel embarrassed enough for him to the point where sending him to Rochester is equivalent to a mercy killing in order to take him out of his misery?

 

 

[gil4]

 

 In his last 30 games Park is sporting a nifty .123/.208/.236 line with a 39.8% k rate that would make even Juan Castro blush. Why isn't he in AAA again?

 

They must not have Rochester Red Wings gear ready for sale in Korea yet. 

 

 

[gil4]

 

Blame the education system, not the poster.

 

The teachers are teaching that incorrectly now? 

 

The poster has probably been ignoring teachers and the online grammar police for years and has no one to blame but himself. 

 

There's an outside chance he's old enough to be a big fan of the J Geils Band and can blame this song:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPAj19vHPNc  

[DaveW]

I'm really concerned that Park is much more Adam Brett Walker than he is Adam Dunn.

 

I get the whole "he needs to see major league pitching" but I hen you are having a sub .400 ops you absolutely need some time in the minors. If you are going to send down Rosario, why on earth are you refusing to send down Park?

[DaveW]

Arcia has no fit with the Twins at all. He's not good in the OF and blocks Kepler if he does play out there. DH is filled by Park or Sano.

 

Santana at least has value as a late inning pinch runner or defensive replacement.

3B should be filled by Sano (all season long actually) and Park shouldn't have been signed in the first place (but now that he is here, should be in AAA)

 

Arcia isn't good in the OF, but he isn't the worst thing to ever happen out there, in fact he is better than Hunter was last year.

 

There is no reason why you couldn't have an OF of Arcia-Buxton-Kepler these days.

 

Once Rosario is back then you move Arcia to DH!

 

Danny Santana has no business being in a major league roster. Grossman can be your 4th OF and we have enough guys for the INF.

[ThejacKmp]

 

What? Screw you guy! Just kidding. Unfortunately I was pretty lazy in English class. I only wrote one paper throughout high school and one in college before dropping out. Reading a lot just doesn't seem to improve grammar since all the work has been done already.

Does "I'd've" work?

 Ha ha.

 

I'm not sure if I'd've is technically grammatically correct but I personally love it and fully endorse your use.

 

And that's an amazing record with papers - I think you should be more proud of that than those who write an actual book. Well done avoiding writing papers, they are the worst.

[Thrylos]

 

 Park needs to be in AAA now, and Sano needs to be back up now.

 

Done deal. DickNBert SmalleyDick were saying exactly that in last night's broadcast, and we all know that Dick is not paid (or potentially not capable) to have original thoughts, but to relay what the Twins' brass feeds him.

[Major League Ready]

 

If this is all so obviously true, then why didn't Terry DFA him or trade him at any point after the completion of the 2014 season- in 2014 when his potential still held highest value- all the way up to Spring Training in 2016? The fact remains... it's still on management that he was occupying a valuable roster spot and wasting away on the bench for 2.5 months.

Really, you want to argue what a travesty it was to let him go and management must be incompetent.  Then, if someone makes a valid argument that he has not been very good offensively and has defensive issues, your position is that management is incompetent because they did not get rid of him sooner.  Cmon, that is not even attempting to debate on merit.  It looks like you are looking for any reason you can find to complain.

[SwainZag]

 

If this is all so obviously true, then why didn't Terry DFA him or trade him at any point after the completion of the 2014 season- in 2014 when his potential still held highest value- all the way up to Spring Training in 2016? The fact remains... it's still on management that he was occupying a valuable roster spot and wasting away on the bench for 2.5 months.

 

Because hindsight is 20/20?  Who knew that would be his highest value?

[jsteve96]

 

Arcia has no fit with the Twins at all.  He's not good in the OF and blocks Kepler if he does play out there.  DH is filled by Park or Sano.  

 

Santana at least has value as a late inning pinch runner or defensive replacement.

Park will be turning 30 shortly and hasnt hit the ball, and Sano is a solid 3rd baseman getting blocked by a guy with a .650 OPS while 25 Yr old Oswaldo Arcia cant get DH time because theyre "Packed" full of DH's.. you cant be "Packed" unless you actually have good hitters.

[Mr. Brooks]

Arcia has no fit with the Twins at all. He's not good in the OF and blocks Kepler if he does play out there. DH is filled by Park or Sano.

 

Santana at least has value as a late inning pinch runner or defensive replacement.

Arcia is already a better hitter than the 30 year old Park, at 5 years younger has more room for growth, and plays the opposite side of the platoon.

Park should not be blocking Arcia or vice versa.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I maintain there is and was always room for both on the team.  No reason why Arcia couldn't start 3 out of every 4 games with some creative platooning, especially with Sano out... same with Park.  He got DFAd for Milone, who probably (hopefully) won't be a Twin in 2017. 

[jimmer]

 

Park should not be blocking Arcia or vice versa.

Technically, he isn't any more. :-)

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Because hindsight is 20/20?  Who knew that would be his highest value?

In this case, I think it's fair to question if the Twins didn't try hard to move Arcia at that time.  Once Hunter was signed, they barely had room for him, and they clearly weren't that high on him, or interested in seeing if he could be a platoon DH type.

 

Sometimes a front office has to bet that a player is at his highest value, and it appears Arcia circa the 2014-2015 offseason is a good example of such a time, given how the team has used him and constructed its rosters since.

[clone52]

 

Arcia is already a better hitter than the 30 year old Park, at 5 years younger has more room for growth, and plays the opposite side of the platoon.
Park should not be blocking Arcia or vice versa.

 

A Platoon would have been a good idea.  Sending Park down to AAA would have been a good idea too, but that will happen when they activate Sano.

 

Its way to early to give up on Park.

[tobi0040]

The difference between the Twins and Rays (and many other teams) is they approach the game with a few simple questions. How can I maximize wins out of my roster? And how can I construct a roster in a way that will allow me to maximize wins?

 

Arcia has a career .793 OPS against right handed pitching. The Rays view him as a great platoon option and pick him up.

 

The Twins gave Park a contract and let that dictate the playing time. Just as they always do. See Pelfrey, Nolasaco, Hughes, and so forth. There is very little chance Park puts up a .793 OPS against righties. He is 100 basis points short so far.

[tobi0040]

Park will be turning 30 shortly and hasnt hit the ball, and Sano is a solid 3rd baseman getting blocked by a guy with a .650 OPS while 25 Yr old Oswaldo Arcia cant get DH time because theyre "Packed" full of DH's.. you cant be "Packed" unless you actually have good hitters.

If this was not spot on, it would be really funny.

 

I wonder if the Twins have ever paid an outside consultant to provide feedback on their decisions? I mean the record should show that we need a new GM and approach. But this would at least be a positive step in the event we never change GM's.

[alarp33]

 

 

Its way to early to give up on Park.

 

You are certainly free to have that opinion, I'm just curious why you say this.  Based on what?

[wsnydes]

 

You are certainly free to have that opinion, I'm just curious why you say this.  Based on what?

In my view, he's a rookie.  Just as I wouldn't give up on any other rookie, I won't completely give up on him either.

 

That being said, I know that we've previously agreed that he can't hit a MLB fastball.  That's always an issue.  As a 30 year old, its not as though he's going to get any younger and finding more bat speed is unlikely.  I'm not giving up on him yet, but I don't have a lot of optimism that he'll pan out.  Then again, I've hated the move all along.  So perhaps I can't look at this objectively.

[alarp33]

 

In my view, he's a rookie.  Just as I wouldn't give up on any other rookie, I won't completely give up on him either.

 

That being said, I know that we've previously agreed that he can't hit a MLB fastball.  That's always an issue.  As a 30 year old, its not as though he's going to get any younger and finding more bat speed is unlikely.  I'm not giving up on him yet, but I don't have a lot of optimism that he'll pan out.  Then again, I've hated the move all along.  So perhaps I can't look at this objectively.

 

Yeah. I'm not exactly saying he SHOULD be given up on.  I'm just curious why people have so much conviction that you can't give up on him, have to keep the DH spot for him, etc.  He's about to be 30, and looks completely over-matched.  I'm not certain what is going to change

[wsnydes]

 

Yeah. I'm not exactly saying he SHOULD be given up on.  I'm just curious why people have so much conviction that you can't give up on him, have to keep the DH spot for him, etc.  He's about to be 30, and looks completely over-matched.  I'm not certain what is going to change

Exactly.  And I'm not trying to suggest that you felt that he should be given up on.  

 

I don't really think sending him to AAA will help in the grand scheme of things, but it serves little purpose to watch him flounder with the big league club.  Sending him down likely helps the big league club and might free his mind a bit.  It does give someone else a chance.  But the fact that he does look completely over-matched is an issue that will be hard to resolve at his age.

[jimmer]

 

Yeah. I'm not exactly saying he SHOULD be given up on.  I'm just curious why people have so much conviction that you can't give up on him, have to keep the DH spot for him, etc.  He's about to be 30, and looks completely over-matched.  I'm not certain what is going to change

Most rookies are 6-9 years younger than him and haven't reached their full potential.  30 year old hitting as poorly as him.  Hard to have patience.  What do we do, wait 2-3 years like we would a rookie with upside?  makes him 32-33 and almost a FA.  I said all along, getting him was a mistake for more than just one reason.  Every single reason has come true.

[DaveW]

If I were Adam Brett Walker I would be very seriously considering heading to Korea to play ball for a few years, that dude would be an MVP over there.

[USAFChief]

Really, you want to argue what a travesty it was to let him go and management must be incompetent.  Then, if someone makes a valid argument that he has not been very good offensively and has defensive issues, your position is that management is incompetent because they did not get rid of him sooner.  Cmon, that is not even attempting to debate on merit.  It looks like you are looking for any reason you can find to complain.

I think the travesty was in deciding, almost two years ago, that Arcia was too valuable to trade and worthy of keeping on the 40 man, but not worthy of playing time.

 

So they end up not using him, AND not getting much if anything for him...all while not really knowing if he'll hit.

 

That seems to me a point worthy of debating on merit, if one isn't looking for any reason to discredit criticism of the font office.

[Teflon]

I switched over to the Rays game last night and the very first thing I saw was Arcia misplaying a ball in right field that cost the team a run. Even if he's somehow found new life as a hitter in Tampa, unless he's the second coming of Ted Williams, he won't top replacement value as long as takes a position in the field. He's the Venezuelan Delmon Young.

[old nurse]

 

In this case, I think it's fair to question if the Twins didn't try hard to move Arcia at that time.  Once Hunter was signed, they barely had room for him, and they clearly weren't that high on him, or interested in seeing if he could be a platoon DH type.

 

Sometimes a front office has to bet that a player is at his highest value, and it appears Arcia circa the 2014-2015 offseason is a good example of such a time, given how the team has used him and constructed its rosters since.

What one would not know if they shopped Arcia then and was getting little in return offers. At that point you still did not know what you had in any of the young outfielders. Fair game to say take a chance anyway, but anything less than a B prospect or back of the pen type pitcher (already had too many back of rotation pitchers even then) would have been met with scorn for the next 5-20 years. What they got now might not have been any different than what they might have been offered then. As the Revere trade showed, Ryan will take offers for player he thinks he needs but is getting better than what he gives.

[Mr. Brooks]

I switched over to the Rays game last night and the very first thing I saw was Arcia misplaying a ball in right field that cost the team a run. Even if he's somehow found new life as a hitter in Tampa, unless he's the second coming of Ted Williams, he won't top replacement value as long as takes a position in the field. He's the Venezuelan Delmon Young.

I'm not saying he isn't a defensive liability, but that seems pretty anecdotal.

[DaveW]

I'm not saying he isn't a defensive liability, but that seems pretty anecdotal.

Yup sorta like "I tuned in and saw him hit a 2 run home run in the only inning I watched! Dude is gonna have 400+ HR this year!"

 

Arcia isn't a good fielder, no doubt but he isn't as bad as people make him out to be.