Arcia Traded to the Rays

[PseudoSABR]

 

I guess I don't see the fact that he is bad at everything, offense, defense, and baserunning.....as a good argument for why Santana should be on the roster. Regardless of Arcia......I don't see how being "able to play multiple positions" is good, if you play them worse than every other player in baseball.

 

I am not comparing him to Arcia, I am asking why a terrible hitter, who can't defend, and is a bad/terrible baserunner has any place on this (or any) roster. 

You need a 25th guy who can do lots of little things; and since he's the 25th guy he probably doesn't do any one of them well, and he needs to be a guy who can ride the pine without his skills going to crap.   

 

I don't know what role people would have Arcia play, and whose at bats they'd give him... 

[alarp33]

 

Tell me about his AAA numbers last year.  I'd love to hear someone rationalize those numbers away.  

 

The notion that the Twins should have just kept throwing Arcia out there, say, instead of signing Grooseman or giving the next guy a shot (Kepler), just leaves me dumbfounded.

 

What do his AAA numbers have to do with anything?  Do you want to know his career MLB #'s? He has an OPS+ of 101.  

 

No one said they should've played him over Kepler.  I've said since February he should've platooned with Park at DH

[alarp33]

 

Santana can sit on the bench and serve a purpose as a defensive replacement, a pinch runner, and the occasional start to give a guy day off.   

 

So the positives of Santana seem to be. He can sit on a bench.  

 

Defensive replacement, for whom exactly? Buxton? Escobar? Kepler?

 

How many times has he been used as a pinch runner the last 2 years... less than 5 I presume? 

 

Why give the worst player in baseball an occasional start? What benefit is there to that, that literally anyone else in Rochester couldn't provide?

[scottz]

I agree with everyone.

 

Please like this post.

 

Or quote it and tell me that I'm wrong.

[FormerMinnasotan]

can we get Hu back?

That's what I was thinking.

[jimmer]

 

So the positives of Santana seem to be. He can sit on a bench.  

 

Defensive replacement, for whom exactly? Buxton? Escobar? Kepler?

 

How many times has he been used as a pinch runner the last 2 years... less than 5 I presume? 

 

Why give the worst player in baseball an occasional start? What benefit is there to that, that literally anyone else in Rochester couldn't provide?

For his career (so 2.5 seasons), he's stolen one base and scored one run as a PR.

[Vanimal46]

 

I agree with everyone.

 

Please like this post.

 

Or quote it and tell me that I'm wrong.

I wanted to do both. You're wrong. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

So the positives of Santana seem to be. He can sit on a bench.  

 

Defensive replacement, for whom exactly? Buxton? Escobar? Kepler?

 

How many times has he been used as a pinch runner the last 2 years... less than 5 I presume? 

 

Why give the worst player in baseball an occasional start? What benefit is there to that, that literally anyone else in Rochester couldn't provide?

What are Arcia's positives, again? Santana isn't a good player, but he's fine as the 25th guy, you use in emergency situations.

 

Again, I'll ask: what role would you have Arcia play and whose at bats should he be given?   

..

[jimmer]

Santana is not used as a 25th man.  Santana plays, a lot. Arcia has 179 MLB PAs in the last season and a half. 179.

 

Last time he got regular playing time, his wRC+ was 109.  Not great, but from a 23 year old, not bad either. If used properly (as a LH DH), he'd have real value. Hopefully the Rays use him that way.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I agree with everyone.

 

Please like this post.

 

Or quote it and tell me that I'm wrong.

[Otto von Ballpark]

How can we even judge this without knowing who the PTBNL is? And then waiting five years to see how said player develops? I love these trades. Doubtful it will be a superstar, but TR has unearthed a few gems in the past. And who doesn't love cold, hard cash?

It remains to be seen whether we even get a player back -- I think the last few "PTBNL or cash" deals we have been a part of, have mostly been settled with a modest amount of cash.

 

Furthermore, I suspect that the inclusion of cash as an option bodes poorly for whatever list of PTBNL we might get to choose from -- likely org filler if we need something later this year.

[gil4]

 

can we get Hu back?

 

 

Get who back?

 

It doesn't matter if he never pitches; it would be worth having him back for the jokes.  Maybe he could be a pinch-runner (only after singles or walks.)

[FormerMinnasotan]

Now can we work on getting rid of Nolasco and Milone? With the season in the crapper anyways I would rather see Berrios back in the rotation with Jason Wheeler getting a shot as well than see Nolasco or Milone pitch poorly. Berrios is starting to look good (1 earned run in the last 14 innings and only 4 walks) and I wouldn't think he'd have the issue of nerves since this would be his second go around. And Wheeler might be this year's Tyler Duffey, Wheeler has been lights out in AAA with a low 2 something ERA so we might as well see what he can do IMO.

[alarp33]

 

What are Arcia's positives, again? Santana isn't a good player, but he's fine as the 25th guy, you use in emergency situations.

 

Again, I'll ask: what role would you have Arcia play and whose at bats should he be given?   

..

 

Again I'll say, he should have played every single time the team faced a RHP. (mostly at DH, occasionally in the OF)  If he got his 400 at bats in that role this year, and stunk, then by all means cut strings, likely not a very useful player going forward.  

 

Trevor Plouffe has a .690 career OPS vs RHP.  He has 156 at bats vs them this season

 

Oswaldo arcia has a .785 career OPS vs RHP (most of the opportunities coming ages 21-23).  He received 84 at bats vs them this season.  

 

If the goal was to win baseball games, and not just play the veterans, those 2016 at bat totals wouldn't look like that. 

[Rosterman]

Good luck to Arcia. Let's see if Tampa can find him some playing time.

 

And, knowing the Twins, they like anything that gives you cash back!

[scottz]

 

I wanted to do both. You're wrong. 

No. You're wrong.

 

YA BURNT, TOO

[DaveW]

It doesn't matter if he never pitches; it would be worth having him back for the jokes. Maybe he could be a pinch-runner (only after singles or walks.)

Who are you talking about?

[DaveW]

Now can we work on getting rid of Nolasco and Milone? With the season in the crapper anyways I would rather see Berrios back in the rotation with Jason Wheeler getting a shot as well than see Nolasco or Milone pitch poorly. Berrios is starting to look good (1 earned run in the last 14 innings and only 4 walks) and I wouldn't think he'd have the issue of nerves since this would be his second go around. And Wheeler might be this year's Tyler Duffey, Wheeler has been lights out in AAA with a low 2 something ERA so we might as well see what he can do IMO.

Milone had a chance to build some trade value, Nolasco is simply terrible, he isn't going to build any worthwhile trade value, and even next year he is a horrible option for this rotation, he should be cut ASAP.

[ewen21]

The most annoying thing about the "Arcia Experience" was that a) managment never really was all too fond of him.  He was portrayed as a brooding, hot-tempered player, they couldn't find a position for him, c) he has offensive talent and upside so because of a and b we could have gotten rid of him a few years ago instead of letting this play out.

 

He will probably be a lot better off in Tampa, which is a much looser environment.

 

On a side note, I will never forget reading a blurb in the ST from LEN 3 about how Arica was removed from a game in 2013 at Rochester because he didn't run out a ground ball.  That was a total fabrication. I was watching that game and in his only at bat, Arcia struck out and the ball did not get away from the catcher, so there was no such situation for him to display a lack of hustle.  What REALLY went on that day was that Drew Butera was called up during the game.  Arcia blew a gasket when he found out he wasn't being called up.  And that to me was justified anger on his part because he had an OPS over 1.000 and we called up Drew.

 

I found it very telling that the mistake about him not running out a grounder in that game was never corrected.  It's actually slanderous.  It also drives a player's value down and makes a guy like Arcia (not the sharpest guy around) brood and play with less confidence.  The Twins have been leaders in this regard.  They are on the cutting edge of it

[mikecgrimes]

I wish they could report the actual details of the trade.  Player's to be named can be better then C or D prospects but without naming a player or giving me a draft pick like rating of the return you have to assume the worst.

[FormerMinnasotan]

Milone had a chance to build some trade value, Nolasco is simply terrible, he isn't going to build any worthwhile trade value, and even next year he is a horrible option for this rotation, he should be cut ASAP.

I'd be all for getting rid of Nolasco at any cost nessisary. Ditto for Milone. However we can do it we should.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Tell me about his AAA numbers last year.  I'd love to hear someone rationalize those numbers away.  

 

The notion that the Twins should have just kept throwing Arcia out there, say, instead of signing Grooseman or giving the next guy a shot (Kepler), just leaves me dumbfounded.

 

Two words:

 

Hip Injury.

 

Look, I understand if you prefer Santana to Arcia, but the big issue I have is that when it comes to upside, Arcia is a middle order bat and Santana is well, not that.  The real issue I see is that Arcia never got a chance to play consistently in a year he was out of options when in reality he certainly could have.  Santana has had that chance and has been bad too.  Instead, Arcia gets DFAd for Milone.  Tommy Milone... or if you want Kevin Jepsen, who is somehow still on this roster. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

What are Arcia's positives, again? Santana isn't a good player, but he's fine as the 25th guy, you use in emergency situations.

 

Again, I'll ask: what role would you have Arcia play and whose at bats should he be given?   

..

 

Are Arcia's 2013 and 2014 seasons a figment of my imagination?  They exist right?

 

So his positives?  Well, how about at age 23 he's had a far better start to his career than virtually anyone else we've called up in recent memory.  He hits for power.  He clearly worked hard to lose weight and come in in-shape.  

 

We're well past the point where he should've been taking Park's at-bats.  Hell, even the manager has very little confidence in Park.

[KGB]

Are Arcia's 2013 and 2014 seasons a figment of my imagination?  They exist right?

 

So his positives?  Well, how about at age 23 he's had a far better start to his career than virtually anyone else we've called up in recent memory.  He hits for power.  He clearly worked hard to lose weight and come in in-shape.  

 

We're well past the point where he should've been taking Park's at-bats.  Hell, even the manager has very little confidence in Park.

Not as good as a 23 year old Danny Santana in 2014, if my memory is correct.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Not as good as a 23 year old Danny Santana in 2014, if my memory is correct.

 

Sure, fair argument.  Then keep them both and send Park down.

[jimmer]

 

Not as good as a 23 year old Danny Santana in 2014, if my memory is correct.

The Danny Santana with a .400+ BABIP?  That guy?  Arcia's BABIP was .294 in his best year.

[spinowner]

 

Who are you talking about?

That's right.

[70charger]

Don't like it. Do not like it. At all.

[Kwak]

The discussion isn't Arcia vs Santana--it's Arcia and does he have a future with the Twins! That ship sailed a year ago, but Ryan was unwilling to pull the plug this fall. His roster spot could have been used to improve the team rather than as a CYA technique.

[Shane Wahl]

He will do very well there.