Twins DFA'd O'Rourke and Graham, Maestro up

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Aaron Hicks? Maybe MLB ready was a stretch but certainly a hell of a lot better option than Santana. Or Mastroianni. Or throwing Buxton out there to flounder with no real backup option, same as we did to Hicks.

 

It's quite the stretch.  That was my point.  Hicks by the way is hitting worse than Buxton and only slightly better than Murphy (and getting about as much playing time).   I think there's quite a bit of revisionist history going on when people get upset about this deal.  It really wasn't a bad one; it just hasn't worked out.  There's a big difference between the two.  Hicks showed flashes of being decent last year as a Twin. 

 

By the way, Murphy has a much better major league track record than Hicks and didn't have a bad minor league one either.  I'm not sure I'd make any type of judgement on that right now, b/c if you want to place money on whose career will last longer, odds are in Murphy's favor. 

[jimmer]

 

There's some truth to this, though I have to say they actually recognized it (which sadly is an accomplishment) and did so earlier than they usually do when they make a mistake (which sadly is also an accomplishment).

 

You're right though, this is very much a mess of their own making, and at some point someone needs to be accountable.  Honestly, I think that has to be TR at this point. 

 

As for Maestro, yeah, not really much to say there.  They didn't have a backup plan for CF... oh wait, they did.  It was Rosario, who was hardly a sure thing to begin with... Of course, let's not all get revisionist here, as TD was very high on him only  two months ago.  But Buxton needs more time, and Rosario discovered he needs it to.  That's what Maestro is for.  He's that warm body to fill in for plan C when he needs a break until plan A or B is ready, which is probably 2017 at the earliest.

Some people had real issues with saying a guy was ready to be a regular who had a sub .290 OBP and whose OPS was helped by very likely non-repeatable amount of triples. 

[jimmer]

 

Mastro is bad enough, but this cute little "hey, they're holding ineffective players accountable!" meme doesn't gain much traction if the next bullpen arm up is Boshers.

 

I don't know how anyone can argue they're trying to improve their situation by calling up these guys.  This is an indictment of an awful offseason and that rests squarely at one person's feet.  (And I've generally been ok with Ryan, but this is it for me - time to move on Terry.  The game passed you by as it does to everyone at some point or another)

I wonder if a real reporter asked how a GM can bring up a pitcher to help the bullpen, and then he sits there for a week until he, instead, starts (leaving an overtaxed bullpen without any help for a week).  Or maybe how a team can go into a game with a 2 man bench.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Mastro is bad enough, but this cute little "hey, they're holding ineffective players accountable!" meme doesn't gain much traction if the next bullpen arm up is Boshers.

 

I don't know how anyone can argue they're trying to improve their situation by calling up these guys.  This is an indictment of an awful offseason and that rests squarely at one person's feet.  (And I've generally been ok with Ryan, but this is it for me - time to move on Terry.  The game passed you by as it does to everyone at some point or another)

 

It's more of an indictment of their offseason I think than anything else.  I do think they are trying to improve it.  They don't have a ton of options right now, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that Centeno won't improve on Murphy and whomever they call up in place of Rosario won't be an improvement there.  Duffey/Berrios is probably an improvement over Milone.  They're going young... perhaps too late, but they're doing it. 

[KirbyHawk75]

Terry Ryan has been a great Minnesota Twins representative.  But TR is past his prime, the game has past him.  I cannot think of any good trades the Twins have made since Smith and Ryan's return.  TR and the Twins constantly seem to be in love with AAAA players.  I am a die-hard Twins fan, but it is hard to follow them this year.  I love Plouffe, but it is time to trade him, put Sano to third.  It is also time to trade Dozier and start Polanco.  I would start Kepler in RF then for Sano.   

 

The Twins are not going to get crap for Hughes or Nolasco.  However, they could get something nice for Santana. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Some people had real issues with saying a guy was ready to be a regular who had a sub .290 OBP and whose OPS was helped by very likely non-repeatable amount of triples. 

 

You're right, some did.  Go back and read the articles on him though.  Lots more positivity only 2 months ago. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

There's some truth to this, though I have to say they actually recognized it (which sadly is an accomplishment) and did so earlier than they usually do when they make a mistake (which sadly is also an accomplishment).

 

What exactly did they recognize and address earlier than usual here? They optioned Milone at end of April last year, and they swapped Hicks for Schafer early last May. They picked up Fuld in April 2014, etc.

 

It seems like folks are really straining to give the Twins credit for something here.

[jimmer]

 

You're right, some did.  Go back and read the articles on him though.  Lots more positivity only 2 months ago. 

The articles here tend to be very positive about the team and the organization.  I was speaking more about some of the posters.

[S.]

 

It's quite the stretch.  That was my point.  Hicks by the way is hitting worse than Buxton and only slightly better than Murphy (and getting about as much playing time).   I think there's quite a bit of revisionist history going on when people get upset about this deal.  It really wasn't a bad one; it just hasn't worked out.  There's a big difference between the two.  Hicks showed flashes of being decent last year as a Twin. 

 

By the way, Murphy has a much better major league track record than Hicks and didn't have a bad minor league one either.  I'm not sure I'd make any type of judgement on that right now, b/c if you want to place money on whose career will last longer, odds are in Murphy's favor. 

While you certainly may be right on the career length and success, the issue is also that we were even put in this situation with CF to begin with, yet again. Buxton had shown nothing yet to lead us to believe he was going to be ready to play full time CF in the majors to start this season, yet we put ourselves in a situation where if/when he failed, our backup options were once again an infielder and Mastroianni. Obviously now we can see that Hicks hasn't been playing well either, but the planning was poor, after making the same mistake previously. It was less a bash on the Hicks for Murphy swap and more a bash on the poor planning that surrounded it. I'm not too happy that Murphy was also supposed to be our grand solution at catcher, but thats a whole different discussion.

 

Certainly too early to pick a winner and loser of that trade, but it hasn't exactly worked as either team planned.

[TheLeviathan]

 

It's more of an indictment of their offseason I think than anything else.  

 

It is, but we heard for weeks that the "bad offseason" comments were off base and unnecessarily negative.

 

And responsibility for the poor 40 man roster construction and depth lies at the feet of Terry Ryan.  So I'm not really eager to congratulate him on the speediness of his moves when he's the guy that necessitated them in the first place.

[Mike Sixel]

Also, some of us were trying hard not to be totally negative before the year began. It is a downer to everyone, so some of us toned our criticism back, as requested.....

[jokin]

 

Except Mastro is the "answer" to CF for the time being.  I don't care how ducky and bunny your spin usually is, to be a "real CF" you have to actually be able to hit a baseball from time to time.

 

Yipes! I believe that one is going to leave a mark- it is mind-boggling that anyone can hope to put a positive spin on this situation.

 

Surely, there is a legit major league OFer, somehow, somewhere- on the waiver wire or waiting for a phone call- who offers more in the short-term OF breach, than recycling "tired" retreads.

[PseudoSABR]

 

You are trying the cute little silver lining thing, there isn't one - this mess is of their own making.  We shouldn't be congratulating them for recognizing it.

Cute? Just stop with that.  It's rude.

 

No one's congratulating the Twins. Some of us are noting that we're happy they are addressing this mess by making moves (DFA/waiving four pitchers without regard to cost) they have been prohibitive of making in the past.    I can like that they DFA'd someone, and still criticize them for who they'll bring up (Mastro), as they put themselves in a crap position with veteran outfielders.  

 

This need for you to police any vaguely positive comments, and say well, no, the Twins are still bad and stupid, and you shouldn't comment on anything other than how bad and stupid they are is...well weird.   (Can't I just say: "this is the right move, good" without receiving condescending replies with how horrible the Twins are?).

[TheLeviathan]

 

Cute? Just stop with that.  It's rude.

 

No one's congratulating the Twins. Some of us are noting that we're happy they are addressing this mess by making moves (DFA/waiving four pitchers without regard to cost) they have been prohibitive of making in the past.    I can like that they DFA'd someone, and still criticize them for who they'll bring up (Mastro), as they put themselves in a crap position with veteran outfielders.  

 

This need for you to police any vaguely positive comments, and say well, no, the Twins are still bad and stupid, and you shouldn't comment on anything other than how bad and stupid they are is...well weird. 

 

As Mike points out, when you are getting pressured to dial back and find positives it's really annoying to hear people trying to be positive when everything you were trying to vent about starts coming true (in some ways, even worse than expected).  They called up Darin Mastroiannia, they shouldn't get any silver linings until they call up someone who might matter.   Until they do something that matters.   

 

I know you don't like analogies, but sometimes when you know something bad was going to happen to hurt you and the person went and did it anyway...the last thing you want is them standing over you telling you it will be ok.  You just want that person to go away so you don't revel in the crappy situation even more.

[jimmer]

 

Also, some of us were trying hard not to be totally negative before the year began. It is a downer to everyone, so some of us toned our criticism back, as requested.....

And sometimes it wasn't a request.  I have a whole area of conversation I'm not allowed to even talk about in here (regardless of how it's presented) for threat of getting warning points/banned.  And it's completely baseball team related and an issue that has had clear negative effects on the team.

[Mr. Brooks]

What's the alternative? CAll back Buxton and let him flail, or sit on the bench?

How about giving Kepler a shot? And I mean an actual legit, every single day in CF for a month minimum shot.

The guy was the Southern League MVP last year. It may turn out that he isn't ready, but at a minimum he's earned a shot.

That is what rebuilding, 8-20 teams do.

[Mr. Brooks]

If Berardino's speculation is correct, the next bullpen arms to get any open 40 man spots could be Kintzler and Boshers.

Adding a couple of those young hard throwers, nice.

[OldTimeTwinkie]

If we are going to try and trade veterans that are taking us nowhere who is going to evaluate potential players that come to us? The same group that got us where we are? Not a track record that inspires me.

[Mike Sixel]

Also, some of us were trying hard not to be totally negative before the year began. It is a downer to everyone, so some of us toned our criticism back, as requested.....

To be clear, I have no issue with the request. It sucks to come and read negative thoughts before the season starts......

 

But, this team is bad. This is Ryan's team, all the way. He built a roster filled with Dh, corner OF, first baseman types. No one else built this roster. When they fail, it is on him. He is the leader here.

[jokin]

 

Cute? Just stop with that.  It's rude.

 

No one's congratulating the Twins. Some of us are noting that we're happy they are addressing this mess by making moves (DFA/waiving four pitchers without regard to cost) they have been prohibitive of making in the past.    I can like that they DFA'd someone, and still criticize them for who they'll bring up (Mastro), as they put themselves in a crap position with veteran outfielders.  

 

This need for you to police any vaguely positive comments, and say well, no, the Twins are still bad and stupid, and you shouldn't comment on anything other than how bad and stupid they are is...well weird.   (Can't I just say: "this is the right move, good" without receiving condescending replies with how horrible the Twins are?).

 

It's really, really hard to find something even "vaguely positive." Talking about "stupid", shall we? Emilio Bonifacio was DFA'd by the Braves, and then re-signed to a minor league contract after he cleared waivers. Michael Bourn was also released by the Braves and signed with the Jays on a minor league deal. The Twins certainly would have been better off calling up Bonifacio or Bourn to breach the short-term gap in the OF.

[Jham]

Perkins on the DL, Milone, DFA'd, O'Rourke DFA'd...  Do we have another lefty reliever I don't know about?  I mean, O'Rourke is a true LOOGY which might not make sense given our starter's inability to throw more than 60 pitches without giving up 6+ runs, but Millone as a combo long man/lefty made some sense.  I guess I'll reserve judgment until I see the corresponding roster moves, or see who passes through waivers, but man, I get the spirit of the moves, but am more than a little confused as to the actual process...  

Centeno deserved a call after his spring and Murphy's struggles.  

It's interesting that the Twins abandon pitch to contact guys for power arms and the power arms end up just as bad or worse than the pitch to contact guys...  I mean, Swarzak, Jefferson Starshi... Manship I mean, Liam Hendricks are all sort of in the league now and then right?  The FO has to feel a little exasperated at the results of their efforts.  

Oh God I figured it out... we're going to re-sign Duensing and Twinsdaily will explode. 

[markos]

 

How about giving Kepler a shot? And I mean an actual legit, every single day in CF for a month minimum shot.
The guy was the Southern League MVP last year. It may turn out that he isn't ready, but at a minimum he's earned a shot.
That is what rebuilding, 8-20 teams do.

It is almost like they should have called up Mastroianni instead of Kepler a few weeks back to sit on the bench so Kepler could have 100+ AAA PAs under his belt by now. At least then he would have a decent chance of being ready to contribute in an everyday roll. Speaking of Kepler, he has struck out once (ONCE!) in 46 AAA PAs so far. 

[Riverbrian]

Asking everyone to back it down and stick to the disagreement and not comment on the style the disagreement is presented. 

 

Thanks

 

 

[jokin]

 

 

To be clear, I have no issue with the request. It sucks to come and read negative thoughts before the season starts......

But, this team is bad. This is Ryan's team, all the way. He built a roster filled with Dh, corner OF, first baseman types. No one else built this roster. When they fail, it is on him. He is the leader here.

 

Yeah. I kept a low TD profile in the offseason, hoping for the best, questioning the rest, fearing the worst... but biting my tongue and keeping my posting to a minimum.

 

No longer. The results of the last two days are utterly embarrassing, like a fish flopping helplessly out of its element..

 

The results in the offseason from:

 

-not trading Plouffe and installing Sano in RF,

-failing to find an acceptable replacement catcher and simultaneously hollowing out the OF defense,

-tendering questionably marginal vets and finally,

-not bolstering the pen,

 

has come back, in spades, to thoroughly demonstrate that Ryan does not have a handle on either this club's capabilities or how to go about remedying its needs.

[jokin]

 

 

Adding a couple of those young hard throwers, nice. /sarc

 

Add-on snark concerning our soon-to-be future journeyman tryout pitchers.

 

Hey, let's give Albers another shot, too. /sarc

[brvama]

To be clear, I have no issue with the request. It sucks to come and read negative thoughts before the season starts......

But, this team is bad. This is Ryan's team, all the way. He built a roster filled with Dh, corner OF, first baseman types. No one else built this roster. When they fail, it is on him. He is the leader here.

Exactly. So now the question is what should be done to correct this mess, of his doing and in fairness, due in some part to the poor performances of this team? We can harangue over what should have been done, but that does change nor help the current situation.

 

Something needs to be done now. The moves being taken indicate to some of us that there is a recognition of a need to change things up. For that, we say good. The particular moves can be debated, but for me I want to hope all this will set things up better for our prospects to take the helm. I'm willing to wait for a week or two before I have a fit.

[jokin]

 

Exactly. So now the question is what should be done to correct this mess, of his doing and in fairness, due in some part to the poor performances of this team? We can harangue over what should have been done, but that does change nor help the current situation.

Something needs to be done now. The moves being taken indicate to some of us that there is a recognition of a need to change things up. For that, we say good. The particular moves can be debated, but for me I want to hope all this will set things up better for our prospects to take the helm. I'm willing to wait for a week or two before I have a fit.

 

I'm past willing to wait.

 

Too bad we've seen this all before- and sadly, it strongly resembles the Grand Rearrangement of the Deck Chairs on the Titanic- imperiously intended to "Send A Message", but, as in past seasons, it isn't going to do much to save the passengers, crew, or the boat itself.

[brvama]

I'm past willing to wait.

 

Too bad we've seen this all before- and sadly, it strongly resembles the Grand Rearrangement of the Deck Chairs on the Titanic- imperiously intended to "Send A Message", but, as in past seasons, it isn't going to do much to save the passengers, crew, or the boat itself.

Fine. Then outside of firing TR, which we all know won't happen at this time, what is your course of action?

[jokin]

 

Fine. Then outside of firing TR, which we all know won't happen at this time, what is your course of action?

 

Actually, Terry retiring, getting kicked upstairs, becoming special assistant to the President... is the first order of business. Jim Pohlad felt the heat a couple years ago, and publicly stated that money is not going to be an impediment to finally putting a winner on the field again. Money was spent foolishly in many instances, and foolishly not at all in many other instances. Better pitchers are sidelined in favor of lesser veterans. Key prospects are arriving at the major league completely lacking in the fundamentals of good team baseball. Making the mistake and blowing up your OF defensive depth once is a bad mistake, doing the same thing again is bordering on malfeasance. I think Pohlad is finally going to get the message that the organizational culture is completely stale and in a state of inertia, and that a dynamic change is needed, very, very soon.

 

Glen Taylor finally figured this out after years of futility- and bit the bullet and blew things up- executives in different fields do talk amongst themselves.

[zchrz]

TR really procrastinated on the off season moves this year....