Mismanagement

[tobi0040]

 

Molitor said in the post game that he wasn't going to bring Meyer into the game with it on the line. 

 

He was nice about it but it basically meant that... He really doesn't trust Meyer at this point. 

 

The Bullpen was taxed and Milone didn't make it to 5 innings. I think we are heading down the same path with the Meyer promotion. 

 

I could be wrong... but I think I'm right... I believe we have a same page issue between Molly and the Front Office. Molly doesn't appear to trust the youth (rightfully so) and we can only send youth to him. 

 

I'm certainly grabbing popcorn to sit and watch this mess. 

 

Solid synopsis.  Meyer was warming up to come in if the Twins didn't walk off.  But Molitor had exhausted every possible option he had first.  What a joke.

 

The discord between these guys is something else.  Meyer should have been given innings 6-9 last night or not brought up at all.   He was a rock star from 2012 to 2014. 2015 was a complete mess for him, he starts the year with 3 great starts and now we promote him and give him the Kepler treatment. 

[Riverbrian]

 

Solid synopsis.  Meyer was warming up to come in if the Twins didn't walk off.  But Molitor had exhausted every possible option he had first.  What a joke.

 

The discord between these guys is something else.  Meyer should have been given innings 6-9 last night or not brought up at all.   He was a rock star from 2012 to 2014. 2015 was a complete mess for him, he starts the year with 3 great starts and now we promote him and give him the Kepler treatment. 

 

Maybe

 

But... I'm just spit balling. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

Well, my 2 cents, but the OP needs to re-examine what mismanagement is.  There  is only one example that I would consider poorly managed and that would be Buxton in CF to start the year.  They had no good backup plan or perhaps they did with Sweeney but just chose not to use it... I'm not sure.   Everything else here is defensible.

 

No one predicted Mauer to hit this well, and like it or not, with 2 1B/DH types, one is going to sit when you go to the NL and Park is the right choice here.  Was it mismanagement to expect Mauer to rebound?  We would be calling it that if he had another crappy season with no backup plan in place as well.  This looks more like nit picking for the sake of nitpicking.

 

Sano is doing just fine, and as Brock pointed out the bat is working quite well.  He's ripping the cover off the ball of late too.  You might argue the 'not trading Plouffe' angle, except that we all saw the lackluster return Todd Frasier got not to mention the contract Freese signed.  Plouffe had no value, and as such he was more valuable here as depth.  We can be revisionist all we want, but he was under contract, and no MLB team would have just cut him or traded him for peanuts.

 

Kepler was an injury call up.  The OP is right that Kepler didn't earn the spot.  It had nothing to do with earning it and everything to do with needing a body.  That's exactly what the 40 man is used for, and for those types of situations, you have to pick from someone on it.  Walker was just coming back from injury, and Kepler was the only other logical option.

 

Park right now is looking like a steal.  Yeah, he's got to adjust to MLB pitching still, and that will take some time, but he takes good at bats and has tape measure power. 

 

I don't have a problem bashing mis-management.  It happens, and TR has made his fair share of mistakes, but let's actually look at areas of actual mismanagement instead of venting about anything and everything, but threads like these make me want to argue the other side simply b/c of how unrealistic they are.  I wholeheartedly agree that you could make a case for mismanagement.  CF obviously is one, and you could argue the bull pen (though I can see the other side of this too), but seriously... the team isn't doing well, and it's not poor management causing this.  It is a crappy offense.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

Ryan on Meyer call up: "Why not? We've got some issues with our starters. We're trying to protect ourselves."

 

Really?  Other than Milone, and a couple bad starts from Gibson, I don't know what team is Ryan talking about.  Delusional. 

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Really?  Other than Milone, and a couple bad starts from Gibson, I don't know what team is Ryan talking about.  Delusional. 

Injuries? 

[jsteve96]

 

There is no evidence that Sano's defense will get any better other than currently he's the worst outfield regular in the majors and chance might suggest he could move up a spot or two. You can defend his hitting but Sano in the outfield will go down as one of the most asinine decisions this front office makes in its tenure.  

where the fu$% else was he supposed to go? trade a top 10 3rd baseman for basically nothing? Dont sign a potential 35+ homer player? Their job is to win. adding Park and keeping plouffe was best for the club. plouffe will be gone within 1.5 years and Sano can be the leagues worst 3rd baseman instead of being the leagues worst RF. When Mauer retires and Sano can go to first, that is when he finally could be a league average fielder. 2019

[Riverbrian]

 

Really?  Other than Milone, and a couple bad starts from Gibson, I don't know what team is Ryan talking about.  Delusional. 

 

In fairness... The issues may have been Santana's Back and Duffey's Bruise. Ryan may not be talking about SP performance. 

 

But... It's interesting that Meyer's call up according to Ryan was based on Starters... Not Pen. 

 

And now... Here comes Berrios. 

 

That's why I've got my Popcorn for the viewing of what happens next. 

[jsteve96]

 

Really?  Other than Milone, and a couple bad starts from Gibson, I don't know what team is Ryan talking about.  Delusional. 

The starters rank 15th in ERA, 28th in K%, 16th in WHIP... our starters aren't doing to great. Berrios and Duffey/Meyer make this rotation way better. Gibson and Milone have been horrible.

[jsteve96]

Bullpen is 11th in ERA, SP is 15th in ERA and Hitters are 17th in Fangraphs offense rating... this team really should be .500

[HitInAPinch]

 

You want an honest answer, or one that won't get me banned?

You've been banned....

 

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/329/MI0001329582.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

[Craig Arko]

 

You've been banned....

 

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0001/329/MI0001329582.jpg?partner=allrovi.com

I work with these guys.

[gocgo]

The Twins are currently 23rd in defense.  Sano is starting to hit, so we have to leave him in right field.  Park has certainly produced and so has Joe.  Now Arcia is hitting the ball.  If you have an OF with both Sano and Aarcia without Buxton roaming the gaps, you need strikeout pitchers.  Enter Berris and May.

[Winston Smith]

 

I work with these guys.

Aren't at least two of them dead?

[Winston Smith]

 

Do we need another one of these?

Easy, if you don't like it don't read it move on to the next one.

 

Somehow we ended up with this free speech thingy and with that goes the freedom to ignore. Both work well when used properly.

[clutterheart]

 

where the fu$% else was he supposed to go? trade a top 10 3rd baseman for basically nothing? Dont sign a potential 35+ homer player? Their job is to win. adding Park and keeping plouffe was best for the club. plouffe will be gone within 1.5 years and Sano can be the leagues worst 3rd baseman instead of being the leagues worst RF. When Mauer retires and Sano can go to first, that is when he finally could be a league average fielder. 2019

 

Adding a potential 35 HR guy is awesome but it makes no sense to have 4 guys best suited for the same position.  (arcia, mauer, park & sano)  Its bad roster construction - doubly so since Moliter has said he wants a fast team that keeps the pressure on.  Right now they are a station-to-station team with an OF full of guys  playing out of position and some fly ball pitchers.

 

Its a bad mix of players.  

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Easy, if you don't like it don't read it move on to the next one.

 

Somehow we ended up with this free speech thingy and with that goes the freedom to ignore. Both work well when used properly.

This stupid country...

[Riverbrian]

 

Adding a potential 35 HR guy is awesome but it makes no sense to have 4 guys best suited for the same position.  (arcia, mauer, park & sano)  Its bad roster construction - doubly so since Moliter has said he wants a fast team that keeps the pressure on.  Right now they are a station-to-station team with an OF full of guys  playing out of position and some fly ball pitchers.

 

Its a bad mix of players.  

 

That's 4 guys suited for 4 positions. LF, 1B, DH and RF(or 3B if you want to go there) 

 

I think Molitor wants a base running team that can put pressure on but I also think Molitor understands the value of a Gorman Thomas type or two or three. 

 

Disclaimer: I love the Park signing. You grab talented players if you believe in them. I wish the Twins would do this more often. 

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Sano is hitting .316/.435/.579 in his last ten games.  Park sat because Joe Mauer has been our best hitter and there is no DH in National League parks.  Kepler came up for a short time because Santana was on IR.  Would I rather he be playing full-time? Of course I would, but it was a stop-gap while Santana was injured.  It is not going to inhibit his development.  He most likely would have played more, but Arcia showed a little life and took AB's away from Kepler. 

All good points; however, I would have played Park at least once at first base in D.C. 4 Mauer, 0 Park was a bit hard for me to take.

[Mike Sixel]

 

That's 4 guys suited for 4 positions. LF, 1B, DH and RF(or 3B if you want to go there) 

 

I think Molitor wants a base running team that can put pressure on but I also think Molitor understands the value of a Gorman Thomas type or two or three. 

 

Disclaimer: I love the Park signing. You grab talented players if you believe in them. I wish the Twins would do this more often. 

 

I am not sure I agree that Arcia is suited for the OF, or Sano either.

[Craig Arko]

Easy, if you don't like it don't read it move on to the next one.

 

Somehow we ended up with this free speech thingy and with that goes the freedom to ignore. Both work well when used properly.

I can actually read these things and ignore them at the same time. It's a gift.

[Riverbrian]

 

I am not sure I agree that Arcia is suited for the OF, or Sano either.

 

And I'm President of the Baseball Player Position Flexibility Club. 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Molitor said in the post game that he wasn't going to bring Meyer into the game with it on the line.

 

He was nice about it but it basically meant that... He really doesn't trust Meyer at this point.

 

The Bullpen was taxed and Milone didn't make it to 5 innings. I think we are heading down the same path with the Meyer promotion.

 

I could be wrong... but I think I'm right... I believe we have a same page issue between Molly and the Front Office. Molly doesn't appear to trust the youth (rightfully so) and we can only send youth to him.

 

I'm certainly grabbing popcorn to sit and watch this mess.

i agree with your analysis, but not sure Molitor is justified in trusting Fien over Meyer. I get trusting Mauer over Park or Plouffe over Sano at third (stupid situation, but not Molitor's fault) but the bullpen has been terrible and overworked, and all options need to be on the table.

[tobi0040]

Adding a potential 35 HR guy is awesome but it makes no sense to have 4 guys best suited for the same position. (arcia, mauer, park & sano) Its bad roster construction - doubly so since Moliter has said he wants a fast team that keeps the pressure on. Right now they are a station-to-station team with an OF full of guys playing out of position and some fly ball pitchers.

 

Its a bad mix of players.

Here is the thing about Plouffe. Let me liken it to a fantasy football story. A neighbor of mine took Big Ben in the 4th round and Brady in the 6th round. When the suspension was overturned and Brady was ripping it up the first few weeks he was looking to trade Ben.

 

But there was not a huge market for him. 6-7 teams were happy with their QB and the other few weren't willing to give up a ton to improve a position a notch or two.

 

So both of these guys could have improved their teams but were too stubborn because they didn't get what they thought they should get. So they ran out sub-optimal lineups each game.

 

That is where we are with Plouffe. Give me an 8th inning stud for

Him and I would argue we would be better in a few places. The pen, RF (defensively), and 3b offensively.

[Major League Ready]

 

I am not sure I agree that Arcia is suited for the OF, or Sano either.

The in-shape version of Arcia looks faster and more agile.  He looks waaaay better than Young and quite a bit better than Willingham.  I would say his D is acceptable if he performs offensively to his capability.  Rosario is certainly better defensively but Arcia could OPS 100 points higher.  I would be take that in an instant if Arcia reached that potential. Granted, it is not ideal to have Sano and Arcia are in the same outfield.

 

 

[jimmer]

 

I am not sure I agree that Arcia is suited for the OF, or Sano either.

yeah he still looks pretty bad out there.

[Platoon]

Well, my 2 cents, but the OP needs to re-examine what mismanagement is.  There  is only one example that I would consider poorly managed and that would be Buxton in CF to start the year.  They had no good backup plan or perhaps they did with Sweeney but just chose not to use it... I'm not sure.   Everything else here is defensible.

 

No one predicted Mauer to hit this well, and like it or not, with 2 1B/DH types, one is going to sit when you go to the NL and Park is the right choice here.  Was it mismanagement to expect Mauer to rebound?  We would be calling it that if he had another crappy season with no backup plan in place as well.  This looks more like nit picking for the sake of nitpicking.

 

Sano is doing just fine, and as Brock pointed out the bat is working quite well.  He's ripping the cover off the ball of late too.  You might argue the 'not trading Plouffe' angle, except that we all saw the lackluster return Todd Frasier got not to mention the contract Freese signed.  Plouffe had no value, and as such he was more valuable here as depth.  We can be revisionist all we want, but he was under contract, and no MLB team would have just cut him or traded him for peanuts.

 

Kepler was an injury call up.  The OP is right that Kepler didn't earn the spot.  It had nothing to do with earning it and everything to do with needing a body.  That's exactly what the 40 man is used for, and for those types of situations, you have to pick from someone on it.  Walker was just coming back from injury, and Kepler was the only other logical option.

 

Park right now is looking like a steal.  Yeah, he's got to adjust to MLB pitching still, and that will take some time, but he takes good at bats and has tape measure power. 

 

I don't have a problem bashing mis-management.  It happens, and TR has made his fair share of mistakes, but let's actually look at areas of actual mismanagement instead of venting about anything and everything, but threads like these make me want to argue the other side simply b/c of how unrealistic they are.  I wholeheartedly agree that you could make a case for mismanagement.  CF obviously is one, and you could argue the bull pen (though I can see the other side of this too), but seriously... the team isn't doing well, and it's not poor management causing this.  It is a crappy offense.

The who could have seen Mauer rebound arguement has two problems. The first is iffy, meaning he was in year three of concussion recovery, which is beginning to look like the timeline for recovery. The second is absolute. Joe Mauer was not going to sit and be replaced by anyone, and likely won't be for the next two years. They didn't do it before when he struggled, and is no reason to think they would this year. I doubt the possibility of a down year by Mauer ever entered into an equation. IF you had no intent to trade Plouffe, value wise or for a philosophical reason, then you should not have acquired Park. That money should have been spent for pitching, or catching. Park has surprised me, I thought he would struggle more. But they haven't even began to work him yet, and I have a nagging suspicion that he is jumping FB's. Plus I cannot see any reason to believe he goes into a league with far superior pitching, and his SO's decline. If that's the case, we need ABW on a plane tonight'!

[old nurse]

 

Here is the thing about Plouffe. Let me liken it to a fantasy football story. A neighbor of mine took Big Ben in the 4th round and Brady in the 6th round. When the suspension was overturned and Brady was ripping it up the first few weeks he was looking to trade Ben.

But there was not a huge market for him. 6-7 teams were happy with their QB and the other few weren't willing to give up a ton to improve a position a notch or two.

So both of these guys could have improved their teams but were too stubborn because they didn't get what they thought they should get. So they ran out sub-optimal lineups each game.

That is where we are with Plouffe. Give me an 8th inning stud for
Him and I would argue we would be better in a few places. The pen, RF (defensively), and 3b offensively.

I am sure most of Twins Daily would be happy to trade Plouffe for an 8th inning stud.  There is just no reality in that happening.

[tobi0040]

I am sure most of Twins Daily would be happy to trade Plouffe for an 8th inning stud. There is just no reality in that happening.

I will file "we can't trade a 2.5 WAR 3b for a good reliever" along with "we could not sign or trade for a good reliever this off-season without doling out a 3 year, $18 million deal"

 

I am not saying you said the reliever part. But that was the view of some. I think we could have but were too stubborn to trade Plouffe for a reliever

[jimmer]

 

I will file "we can't trade a 2.5 WAR 3b for a good reliever" along with "we could not sign or trade for a good reliever this off-season without doling out a 3 year, $18 million deal"

I am not saying you said the reliever part. But that was the view of some. I think we could have but were too stubborn to trade Plouffe for a reliever

I think it's hard to trade someone when you don't want and/or don't try and trade someone.

[Mr. Brooks]

Molitor said in the post game that he wasn't going to bring Meyer into the game with it on the line.

 

He was nice about it but it basically meant that... He really doesn't trust Meyer at this point.

 

The Bullpen was taxed and Milone didn't make it to 5 innings. I think we are heading down the same path with the Meyer promotion.

 

I could be wrong... but I think I'm right... I believe we have a same page issue between Molly and the Front Office. Molly doesn't appear to trust the youth (rightfully so) and we can only send youth to him.

 

I'm certainly grabbing popcorn to sit and watch this mess.

In other words, Meyer is brought up to be the mop up guy.

Don't we have a half dozen or more marginal pitchers on the 40 man who can fill that role, instead of a guy with ace upside who might finally be figuring it out in his last option year?