The Meyer Rule

[kab21]

First let's briefly describe the Duensing Rule.  The Duensing Rule harkens back to the Battle Your Tail Off days before Twins Daily existed.  It was coined (by myself I think) when every trade proposal included Duensing and Casilla.  Both of these players had some isolated MLB success but neither were particularly valuable MLB'ers and nearly every visual and SABR analysis showed they were depth guys.  Somehow amateur GM's (all of us - myself included) thought that by including these spare parts in a package they could get something good in return.

 

The Meyer Rule doesn't replace the Duensing Rule even though we may actually part with Duensing this offseason.  The Meyer Rule is for prospects and young players that were fairly well regarded but have struggled significantly for the last year or two.  This board is littered with proposed trades with Meyer, Arcia, ABW and a few others.  It is like we are assuming that other GM's are living under a rock for the last year and haven't noticed that Meyer was so bad that he got moved to the bullpen and has had mixed success (very little lately).  He is not a desirable commodity for top tier players.  A GM might be willing to buy low but not if they are selling a good player.

 

 

[drjim]

Let's trade Meyer for Chapman.

[TheLeviathan]

I reject your claim, I created the Duensing Rule in a very snippy response that would not be tolerated by our new overlords.

 

I think Adam Brett-Walker and his cult followers will really push hard against this decision though.

[Craig Arko]

This appears to be the foreign language thread.

[twinsnorth49]

 

I reject your claim, I created the Duensing Rule in a very snippy response that would not be tolerated by our new overlords.

 

I think Adam Brett-Walker and his cult followers will really push hard against this decision though.

Snippy?...you? I don't believe it.

 

 

[ALessKosherScott]

ABW, Meyer and Duensing for the reanimated Babe Ruth. Who says no?

[DaveW]

ABW, Meyer and Duensing for the reanimated Babe Ruth. Who says no?

might need to toss in Sean Bergman.

[James]

 

ABW, Meyer and Duensing for Mark DeRosa. Who says no?

ftfy.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Snippy?...you? I don't believe it.

 

Yup, I know how hard that is to imagine, but it's true.

[Winston Smith]

The sad thing is all those good players we could have if Terry was only willing to give up Duensing.

[Vanimal46]

 

 

I think Adam Brett-Walker and his cult followers will really push hard against this decision though.

 

 

The ABW Fan Club has been radio silent for weeks... I'm starting to get concerned.

[DaveW]

Just think how many titles we would have won if Ryan pulled the trigger on the Johan Santana for Clayton Kershaw, Matt Kemp, Chad Billinsgley and James Loney deal.

 

Also, off topic a bit, but I wonder if Brian Buscher and Brendan Harris will be the first platoon combo to get in on the first ballot of the hall of fame?

[jimbo92107]

The real tragedy is that Duensing is wasting his talents on this club, when he could be the cornerstone of a dominant Saint Paul Saints. He could pitch in front of adoring crowds, enjoy a renaissance of pitching success, and get a free haircut every seventh inning.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I agree with this new "Meyer rule."  It also currently applies to Arcia (and to a lesser extent, Santana, Vargas, etc., although those guys weren't as well-regarded as prospects to begin with).

 

I think Hicks is finding his way back from under the rule, although I don't think he's ready to headline a trade yet, but he could be seen as contributing value.

[nicksaviking]

I think Meyer has another year of regression to go before he qualifies for a rule.  He was still a top 50 prospect heading into the season, three months won't knock him down to the level of a one dimensional non-top prospect like ABW.

 

Meyer may not be able to headline a major trade at this point, but he'd be one of the bigger pieces.

[70charger]

 

The ABW Fan Club has been radio silent for weeks... I'm starting to get concerned.

 

The Walker family may be on vacation?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Meyer may not be able to headline a major trade at this point, but he'd be one of the bigger pieces.

Perhaps, but all too often, ALL of the proposed pieces of a trade are players like this.  I think 90% of recent trade ideas on this site are comprised solely of the following players:

 

Meyer

Arcia

D. Santana

Vargas

Walker

Tonkin

Suzuki

Dean

Turner

 

Not even Hicks!  It's almost as if you have any recent success and/or placement in a top-10/15 prospect list, you're ineligible to be traded on Twins Daily.

 

Now, if you want to package one of these guys with Berrios, that's a different story.

[ALessKosherScott]

 

might need to toss in Sean Bergman.

 

Trick question. ABW is the reincarnated Babe Ruth.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

might need to toss in Sean Bergman.

You know Sean Bergman was only claimed by the Twins at age 30, right?  After 5 full seasons in MLB with other teams?  We have plenty of failed (non) prospects of our own, no need to sully the legacy of Mr. Bergman (who I saw defeat the Yankees in New York that season!).

[Linus]

I do truly believe that sometimes people are discussing this in the context of MLB the Show or whatever the video game that my son plays. 

 

"Hey Dad, I just traded AJ for Miguel Cabrera and then signed him to a 10 year, $20 million dollar extension.  Pretty good, huh?"  Yes, son, that is very good.

[70charger]

 

I do truly believe that sometimes people are discussing this in the context of MLB the Show or whatever the video game that my son plays. 

 

"Hey Dad, I just traded AJ for Miguel Cabrera and then signed him to a 10 year, $20 million dollar extension.  Pretty good, huh?"  Yes, son, that is very good.

 

That is why I absolutely do not let my kids play video games.

 

That, and I have no kids.

[kab21]

 

I think Meyer has another year of regression to go before he qualifies for a rule.  He was still a top 50 prospect heading into the season, three months won't knock him down to the level of a one dimensional non-top prospect like ABW.

 

Meyer may not be able to headline a major trade at this point, but he'd be one of the bigger pieces.

Meyer and ABW are quite different as you state but Meyer has almost no trade value other than a buy really low.  He is a 25 yr old that has completely fallen apart with a long history of shoulder problems.  He isn't a bigger piece in a trade right now.

 

ABW qualifies for this rule since he is the prospect that nobody wants on the team but he is somehow thought to be a desirable commodity since he hits a gazillion HR's with a .300 OBP.

 

But really the basis for each rule is that the players are not actually players that the Twins community (and the proposer) believes in long term so they are trying to trade them off as a sell high.  The only problem is that these flaws are obvious to the entire baseball world.  It is really hard to sell prospects that aren't performing.

[USAFChief]

 

That is why I absolutely do not let my kids play video games.

 

That, and I have no kids.

Why do you hate children?

 

And Alex Meyer?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

I do truly believe that sometimes people are discussing this in the context of MLB the Show or whatever the video game that my son plays. 

 

"Hey Dad, I just traded AJ for Miguel Cabrera and then signed him to a 10 year, $20 million dollar extension.  Pretty good, huh?"  Yes, son, that is very good.

I hope and pray every day that I can have that conversation with my toddler daughter some day. instead it'll probably be "I made a my little pony that looks like purple sparkle drops and pink lightning" and I'll respond "do you want to play MLB the show?" and she'll say "No, how about olympic figure skating?"

[DocBauer]

I hope and pray every day that I can have that conversation with my toddler daughter some day. instead it'll probably be "I made a my little pony that looks like purple sparkle drops and pink lightning" and I'll respond "do you want to play MLB the show?" and she'll say "No, how about olympic figure skating?"

Could be worse. Imagine strolling in to the family room on a beautiful day off, smile on your face, a bounce in your step, glove on your one hand, stitched horse-hide ball in the other, (did they ever really use horse-hide?), and you excitedly propose to to your boy(s): "let's go play some catch!"

 

And the very fruit of your boys of summer loins responds with: " maybe later. In the middle of a big FIFA match on the PS10. Wanna play? You can be Madrid."

 

You walk away tense, but restrained, and can almost be heard muttering under your breath: "I'd rather wear a bleeping White Sox jersey."

[70charger]

 

Why do you hate children?

 

And Alex Meyer?

 

Alex Meyer kicked my dog.

 

Also, I have no dog.

[jun]

Any trade talk would have to include Boyer and Fien. I would like to see them gone, LONG GONE. Both have been ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE. I don't know how many inherited runners scored when Boyer stepped in. Both Boyer and Fien should not be allowed to pitch in a close game.

[kab21]

Boyer and Fien perfectly define the Duensing Rule.  Someone could twist an argument (ERA) saying that they are successful RP'ers that are valuable to a playoff team.

[James]

 

I do truly believe that sometimes people are discussing this in the context of MLB the Show or whatever the video game that my son plays. 

 

"Hey Dad, I just traded AJ for Miguel Cabrera and then signed him to a 10 year, $20 million dollar extension.  Pretty good, huh?"  Yes, son, that is very good.

Whoa there!  Let's not drag video games into this.  

 

But yeah... people are proposing some really lop-sided trades and expect that they are fair.  Every week there is a live conversation on mlbtraderumors, and there are a bunch of people that propose all kinds of trades that are mainly ridiculous.  It's good to know that it's not just Twins fans that do this.  It's usually a good read too.  

[USAFChief]

Boyer, Fien AND Duensing. For LuCroy.

 

Three for one.

 

Too much, maybe?