Arcia

[TwinsfaninPA]

Am I crazy, but I want the Twins to trade Arcia for some bullpen help.  Just his OF defense alone makes me want him out of here.  Plus his ups and downs at the plate.  Rosario is showing the type consistency that Arcia never has.  Its not a shock that the Twins are playing better ball with improved OF defense.  Let Vargas DH, Rosario play OF and keep on rolling! 

[jorgenswest]

It wouldn't be wise to sell low on a young talent. It could easily be a Rosario or Vargas struggling a month from now.

[a-wan]

Arcia has put up better numbers the past three years in the majors than Rosario has at AA/AAA. Why is Arcia less, "Consistent? "

[Hrbowski]

Arcia for bullpen help would be a bad idea. If we trade him we should get good starting pitching in return, but I really like him and think that he could be a 35+ home run guy, which is a bonus because power will probably keep getting more scarce.

[COtwin]

Waaaaaay to early to make assumptions about Arcia. He doesn't even have 800 major league ABs yet. As soon as he starts hitting down in AAA again for an extended stretch he needs to be back up here. This year has been fun, but we still need to realize that this was the year we finally sell out for the rebuild and player development. Nunez, Robinson, Hunter and probably Suzuki are not part of the long term. At some point the major league AB they are taking need to be given to guys who could be in our future.

 

I would like us to keep playing like we are and maybe we get "lucky" and make the playoffs. But we need to not think that this roster is going to make us a World Series contender in the future and sell any part of the future for the now.

[Mike Sixel]

I'd guess you couldn't get much more than a BP arm for him right now, so don't deal him now. They have a ton of RP in the minors, I can't behind dealing Arcia for one.

 

That said, I would not be shocked if he's not part of the future.......

 

Buxton, Hicks, Rosario, Arcia, Walker, Kepler, Sano (s/b in RF or 1B or DH imo), Hunter (extension soon, I'd bet), and maybe more are all potentially there......

[JAWS33]

I think it's too early to sell on Arcia as well.  I still cringe about the Ramos for Capps trade.  It might have been logical at the time to trade a young catcher when we had Mauer catching, but it hurts now.  I know it's a little different case than Arcia but I think its too early, you never know what will happen with young players.

[HitInAPinch]

Yup, you're crazy

It's getting to the point where Arcia needs to start producing on a consistent basis.  To that end, Paul Molitor pointedly talked about Arcia, Vargas and Sano in Spring Training and their approach in batting practice.  They all need to stop hacking away.

 

[DaveW]

While I think ultimately Arcia is the guy you trade, right now is not the time. His value has never been lower and frankly the Twins really could use his bat.

In a perfect world he gets his crap together and posts a nice batting line for the rest of 2015, heading into 2016 ideally we have some options with a crowded lineup featuring: Sano, Buxton, Rosario, Hicks, Vargas (This assumes that all of them will play at a ML level...odds are at least one will falter a bit) at that point you look to trade from a position of strength (OF/DH) to address a weakness, any of Rosario, Hicks, Arcia, Vargas would be on the block IMO to bring back some SS or SP help)

 

You have to be careful not to trade guys too early though, while I still like the returns that Revere and Span got us and agree with the trades at the time, both set us back in the CF department for a few years.

 

Unless Buxton breaks into the majors and sticks this season, no reason to rush shopping Arcia.

[DaveW]

 

 

Arcia for bullpen help would be a bad idea. If we trade him we should get good starting pitching in return, but I really like him and think that he could be a 35+ home run guy, which is a bonus because power will probably keep getting more scarce.

I'd gladly included him in a package to get Chapman, but I don't see that happening.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Too soon to trade Arcia in my opinion. 

[USAFChief]

Too soon to trade Arcia in my opinion.

or quite possibly too late.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

 

I'd gladly included him in a package to get Chapman, but I don't see that happening.

but what if the Twins include Duensing?

[bluechipper]

I don't understand all the negativity on Arcia. It takes time for hitters to adjust to major leagues, and patience is especially important with a guy who has as much talent as Arcia does. He hit .310/.371/.535 in his minor league career, and we've already seen glimpses of that ability while up with the Twins.

 

He just turned 24. 

[gocgo]

The way I see it, in the Twins garage right now, they have a lot of spare parts lying around or being honed to fit the big league machine.  Right now, we are in the process of swapping out parts that don't quite fit for other parts that we have lying around.

 

Some of those spare parts being honed are Polanco, Sano, Buxton...fill in your names here.

 

Then there are those parts that have been honed...sort of...but really don't fit the machine.  Arcia is one of those parts.  It's not that they can't be useful if the machine breaks down a bit, but they really aren't a long term fit for the machines day to day business of churning out wins via hits, defense, pitching.

 

Sometimes those parts are better in other peoples garages or a fit for their machine - see Chris Colabello.  I'm starting to think Arcia is one of those parts.  While I do like Plouffe, I'm not sure where he fits in either.  Could he be a super utility guy if Sano does fit at 3rd?  He started out as SS, but I have no idea if he can still play there.  Bottom line is that the next year will be both interesting and critical to the future success of the Twins.

[drock2190]

Twins need power, besides Sano no one is a 30 homer threat

[Linus]

Keep him.  He kind of drives me crazy but guys with that kind of power do not grow on trees.  My hope is that between he and Vargas we end up with a great DH for a long time. 

[Thegrin]

Trading Arcia for pitching is not a good idea. Never trade an everyday player for a pitcher.  We traded Span for Meyer, and how is that working out.  Trading Revere for May & Worley was a better trade and May is starting to do well... but Span and Revere have been producing since the trade and May is just now giving us results. 2 years from now, Span and Revere will still be hitting and who knows what May and Meyer will be doing.  

[Siehbiscuit]

I'm going to copy what I wrote from another thread.

 

"Haven't we been here before with talented guys before? we dumped David Ortiz, traded a talented Carlos Gomez and numerous others at low values. Sometimes talent takes time to mature. Left handed greatness in pitching or hitting is very hard to find. The fact that Arcia has the capability to be a star like Ortiz and Gomez shouldn't be something we throw away so easily. He's a terrible fielder and at best we can hope he becomes serviceable in the OF. BUT could you imagine the agony of tossing him aside because you prefer Hicks or Rosario's solely because you prefer their defense. Arcia may never blossom like we thought he would and become the .300/.375/.550 star we thought he'd be, but the fact that he is the ONLY LH batter in the organization with the chance to be that is worth being patient for."

[Mike Sixel]

If you never trade anyone on the tiny chance they could be an all star, you never trade anyone. And if you only trade guys who have no chance, you may as well not.

[Brandon Warne]

Certain Twins fans in a nutshell:

 

STILL CAN'T BELIEVE WE DUMPED DAVID ORTIZ!

 

*single breath*

 

NOW CAN WE PLEASE GET RID OF OSWALDO ARCIA?

 

(No, they aren't the same player, but you get the general idea)

[Kwak]

 

I'm going to copy what I wrote from another thread.

"Haven't we been here before with talented guys before? we dumped David Ortiz, traded a talented Carlos Gomez and numerous others at low values. Sometimes talent takes time to mature. Left handed greatness in pitching or hitting is very hard to find. The fact that Arcia has the capability to be a star like Ortiz and Gomez shouldn't be something we throw away so easily. He's a terrible fielder and at best we can hope he becomes serviceable in the OF. BUT could you imagine the agony of tossing him aside because you prefer Hicks or Rosario's solely because you prefer their defense. Arcia may never blossom like we thought he would and become the .300/.375/.550 star we thought he'd be, but the fact that he is the ONLY LH batter in the organization with the chance to be that is worth being patient for."

A) Gomez wasn't dumped!  He was traded for JJ Hardy--who was the best SS this team has had for decades. Ortiz was dumped--but he would not accept the arb offer (Ortiz would have won!), and the purse strings were tight. But, the Twins had Morneau (who could play good defense) on his way up, and Mientkewitz, who they liked.  Whereas Ortiz and defense should not be in the same sentence without a negative). The Twins wanted someone who could fit the template of RHB (with power?), DH, and be a #3 Catcher.  They had somebody they thought was that guy.  Unfortunately, he wasn't that guy.

C) Maybe Ortiz will hit (close to ) as well as Ortiz--but then there are multiple guys who represent alternatives.  Some can play defense, some can't.  Some project just as high as Ortiz, some even higher.  The Twins can't wait forever on Ortiz.  Nor can they reserve a DH spot for him either.

[Platoon]

Siehniscuit beat me to the point. Arcia is a potential 30 HR guy, and left handed. Talent is not his problem. Applying himself properly might be. It took Ploufe 5 years to be just passible. He won't be a plus fielder, but almost every team has a power guy in the OF. And if he eventually can't cut it out there, the American League has the DH. He has twice the potential as Vargas. Bottom line, I am tired of us giving up on talent early, sometimes seemingly because the guy does not fit a certain profile. Whether Gomez kisses his bat or not should not be a factor in whether he can play or not. If you don't have the patience to develop young talent, then go out and buy it. It's the getting stuck in the middle that causes four 90+ loss years in a row.

[Platoon]

A) Gomez wasn't dumped!  He was traded for JJ Hardy--who was the best SS this team has had for decades. Ortiz was dumped--but he would not accept the arb offer (Ortiz would have won!), and the purse strings were tight. But, the Twins had Morneau (who could play good defense) on his way up, and Mientkewitz, who they liked.  Whereas Ortiz and defense should not be in the same sentence without a negative). The Twins wanted someone who could fit the template of RHB (with power?), DH, and be a #3 Catcher.  They had somebody they thought was that guy.  Unfortunately, he wasn't that guy.

C) Maybe Ortiz will hit (close to ) as well as Ortiz--but then there are multiple guys who represent alternatives.  Some can play defense, some can't.  Some project just as high as Ortiz, some even higher.  The Twins can't wait forever on Ortiz.  Nor can they reserve a DH spot for him either.

I am not sure bringing up JJ Hardy is a good argument when part of the discussion relates to the FO ability to judge and yes, adapt to talented players.

[amjgt]

In my opinion, there is only one person in this organization that in completely off limits in a trade scenario. Pelfrey. Oops, sorry, I mean Buxton. I wouldn't have a problem moving Arcia as part of a package that got us the true ace that has eluded us for years. Having said that, I think people in this thread are too easily dismissing him as a future key part of this team. We've all been keen on Max Kepler and what he's doing at AA, but go back and look at what Arcia did in 2012 (2 years younger than Kepler) he destroyed high A and AA. He's struggling right now, but it's crazy to me that people would trade him for bullpen help.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

but what if the Twins include Duensing?

winner of the Internet!

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Don't trade Arcia now, best return is a reliever of the same quality already in Rochester. If Arcia gets his poop in a group, he's either a valuable contributor or trade chip. Either way patience will payoff as he still has options. Depth isn't a bad thing right now.

 

That being said, if the right trade came along later in the season, I wouldn't be opposed

[Danchat]

When trading players, you usually want to trade a player at his peak value. This would be like the Vikings trading Cordarelle Patterson right now.

Oh, whoops, let's not make football references. But basically you never trade a guy while his value at the lowest. Give him time and be very, very patient. He'll come around eventually.

[drjim]

 

When trading players, you usually want to trade a player at his peak value. This would be like the Vikings trading Cordarelle Patterson right now.

Oh, whoops, let's not make football references. But basically you never trade a guy while his value at the lowest. Give him time and be very, very patient. He'll come around eventually.

 

I think this is generally fantasy talk. Maybe I'm naive but I generally want a guy on the team when he is at peak value. I generally think there are four times to trade a guy - if he is excess, if a better player is on the way, if there is a great player to be acquired or if you are a terrible team and said player doesn't fit into long term plans. But I think the strategy of trying to guess when a guy is at peak value and cashing him in doesn't pay off in the long run, and a team at Twins payroll level should never have financial reasons for a trade (though they might have team control reasons).

[USAFChief]

 

  But I think the strategy of trying to guess when a guy is at peak value and cashing him in doesn't pay off in the long run, 

Well, there's the rub.  If you could DO it, it'd be a great strategy, and it WOULD pay off in the in the long run.

 

The problem is, trying to judge when a player is at peak value is tough... just as tough as trying to judge when the stock you hold is at peak value.  If it was easy, everyone would be rich.