2016 Election Thread

[Craig Arko]

Except this isn't Trump's first presidential run; the media didn't sensationalize him the previous times. The Republucans had such uninspired candidates and stories to report that the media grabbed onto Trump and his Onion inspired babble and tabloidized that crap which took it from fringe lunacy to mainstream fear-mongering.

Trump should have never gotten to the point that he lead the news, he should have been a page six oddity like he always used to be.

I suspect this says as much about the American people as it does about the American press, though.

[formerly33]

 

I suspect this says as much about the American people as it does about the American press, though.

Yeah. If anyone panders to their audience, it's the press, not Hillary Clinton.

[ashbury]

Free Speech. I'm not sure what guarantees we actually have of that. The First Amendment bars the government from passing laws that abridge free speech or the right to peaceably assemble. I'm not sure what exactly in the Constitution says that the government is obliged to step in when one group abridges those rights of another group. Does a large group, say Trump supporters, have a right to meet without interference from another group, say Berners? That's a genuine question - I'd like to be clearer. But if the answer is no, I'm afraid it opens the door for quasi-government goons to operate.

[TheLeviathan]

Free speech is one of those issues in which the slippery slope is a very valid argument.  

[PseudoSABR]

 

Sure, but there's a difference between yelling "shut up!" and forcing someone to shut up through violence.

Who's doing what? The protesters might be doing that through trying to shut down the rallies; and Trump is certainly doing that through calling for protesters to be arrested and popped in the mouth. 

[Badsmerf]

I'm pretty sure free speech even guarantees the right to hate speech. Free is free. There is no buts. When it becomes illegal is when that speech turns into actions.

[formerly33]

 

I'm pretty sure free speech even guarantees the right to hate speech. Free is free. There is no buts. When it becomes illegal is when that speech turns into actions.

Okay, this is like everywhere, so I'm not sure what the original source is, but,

 

"In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group."

[glunn]

 

Free Speech. I'm not sure what guarantees we actually have of that. The First Amendment bars the government from passing laws that abridge free speech or the right to peaceably assemble. I'm not sure what exactly in the Constitution says that the government is obliged to step in when one group abridges those rights of another group. Does a large group, say Trump supporters, have a right to meet without interference from another group, say Berners? That's a genuine question - I'd like to be clearer. But if the answer is no, I'm afraid it opens the door for quasi-government goons to operate.

 

My sense of the law is that, in general, there is no right to protest on private property.

 

It also appears to me that there is generally a right to peaceful protest when a candidate is speaking on public property, such as a college auditorium, so long as the protest is not disruptive.  In my view, protesters on public property would be wise to hold up their signs and wear their t-shirts, but keep their mouths shut.  Such an approach would make it untenable for the authorities to drag them off.

 

I believe in a right to protest, but when a candidate is holding a rally (be it Trump or Sanders or Cruz), the protesters should not be allowed to drown out the candidate. Otherwise, every candidate could have/hire protesters disrupt the rallies of the other candidates and trounce the rights of other citizens to hear their candidates.

 

Here is an article that goes into more detail about this:  http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/faq/frequently-asked-questions-assembly

[TheLeviathan]

Right, the trend this could create is very troubling for free speech. Line up outside the event, hold up your signs, maybe even try and strike up aconversation, or chant away. But going into the event and parading up and down the aisles,coming on stage, and making noise through the candidate is just really unacceptable. It opens the door for waves of obnoxious conservatives in Mississippi doing the same to a Bernie rally. Only they may come armed.

 

What really irks me is that these idiot protesters are actually making me defend Trump.

[Squirrel]

Another super-Tuesday ... just got done voting ... some interesting races for me in Illinois. Tammy Duckworth for U.S. Senate and Julianna Stratton for State Rep. I loved being able to vote for amazing, intelligent, competent WOMEN!

 

(And Hillary, too!)

[Mike Sixel]

Every time I think of Trump vs Clinton, a little piece of me dies.......

[nicksaviking]

 

Every time I think of Trump vs Clinton, a little piece of me dies.......

 

You need to stay away from the violent protesters then; maybe the doctors can sew it back on. And Trump says don't be too hard on yourself, small hands doesn't necessarily mean it's small.

[Mike Sixel]

 

You need to stay away from the violent protesters then; maybe the doctors can sew it back on. And Trump says don't be too hard on yourself, small hands doesn't necessarily mean it's small.

 

hahahahaha.....I never knew I had small hands until I took up the guitar a couple years ago......

[ashbury]

hahahahaha.....I never knew I had small hands until I took up the guitar a couple years ago......

The girls you dated in high school and college never clued you in, eh?

[Mike Sixel]

 

The girls you dated in high school and college never clued you in, eh?

 

HS....another good one.....we might be approaching a line here....but I guess if our future President can discuss this, we can. sigh.

[Craig Arko]

Small hands, warm heart...

[DaveW]

I know this is nothing shocking, but the way the media is cover this election is embarrassing, even if Bernie wins a couple states today it really doesn't make a difference, he is just too far behind in the delegate count at this stage. (And none of the super delegates Hilary has are going to switch over last minute as well)

 

In reality, Bernie should probably just drop out after today, however he clearly loves the spotlight at this point, so we will continue to get beaten over the head with a false narrative that he "has a shot"

[Mike Sixel]

Or, maybe, he's trying to change the conversation of the country. But, ya, assume it is all negative, and about the spot light.

[DaveW]

 

Or, maybe, he's trying to change the conversation of the country. But, ya, assume it is all negative, and about the spot light.

Free college? Taking down the banks and corporations? It's all pipedream bullplop. Once again, Bernie in his lifelong in politics has actually accomplished next to nothing, it's all bluster. There is a reason why the only group he really has going for him are the white college students.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Free college? Taking down the banks and corporations? It's all pipedream bullplop. Once again, Bernie in his lifelong in politics has actually accomplished next to nothing, it's all bluster. There is a reason why the only group he really has going for him are the white college students.

 

you might want to check out your demographics, he has other groups also.

 

I hate to break it to you, but what he is proposing is almost inevitable (some of it).....every European nation, Russia, Turkey, Israel......they all do more of what he says than we do. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

What really irks me is that these idiot protesters are actually making me defend Trump.

God, yes. So many times this.

[Willihammer]

 

you might want to check out your demographics, he has other groups also.

 

I hate to break it to you, but what he is proposing is almost inevitable (some of it).....every European nation, Russia, Turkey, Israel......they all do more of what he says than we do. 

I realize we have an annoying tendency towards hubris in this country but this is overcompensating. Russia, Turkey, and Israel aren't countries I would hope to emulate.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I realize we have an annoying tendency towards hubris in this country but this is overcompensating. Russia, Turkey, and Israel aren't countries I would hope to emulate.

 

Doesn't matter if we want to or not......every first world nation but us (left off Canada) does the things to a larger degree than we do (that Sanders is proposing). It is inevitable that the US will do more of it over time.

[nicksaviking]

 

I know this is nothing shocking, but the way the media is cover this election is embarrassing, even if Bernie wins a couple states today it really doesn't make a difference, he is just too far behind in the delegate count at this stage. (And none of the super delegates Hilary has are going to switch over last minute as well)

 

In reality, Bernie should probably just drop out after today, however he clearly loves the spotlight at this point, so we will continue to get beaten over the head with a false narrative that he "has a shot"

 

If I'm Clinton and I know the trophy is already in the bag, I'd pay to keep the Saunders campaign running. I think if she's still debating and fighting against Sanders, she stays in the news. I'd think if she sews up the nomination and Trump has to wait until the RNC in July, that's going to be four full months of Trump/Republican hype and next to nothing for her.

[Squirrel]

 

Doesn't matter if we want to or not......every first world nation but us (left off Canada) does the things to a larger degree than we do (that Sanders is proposing). It is inevitable that the US will do more of it over time.

 

I don't have one, single problem with Sanders bringing these issues to the table. And I don't think he is doing this for his own spotlight. These are genuine issues and yes, I believe we will get there eventually. But I think his idealism on how we do that isn't practical, or even possible. And it's not about the possibilities that what he is proposing could be successful ... it just won't happen as long as Congress is what it is. And that's not me throwing in the towel saying 'It can't happen therefor don't try.' it's me saying we need to try a different way than he is proposing. And that is my problem with many/some Bernie supporters. As I read in my FB feed, the smugness of some (not you, Craig ) of them, it's really tiresome and irksome. It's their way or no way and that kind of politics just doesn't succeed without the backing of all sides.

[Squirrel]

And an off topic comment ... typing and reading with your eyes dilated gives one a head ache ... but no more regression in my eyes, so yay for that.

[Willihammer]

 

Doesn't matter if we want to or not......every first world nation but us (left off Canada) does the things to a larger degree than we do (that Sanders is proposing). It is inevitable that the US will do more of it over time.

I have no doubt Europe does some things better than us and we could probably stand to learn a thing or two. But the assumption that "every other first world country," ie. Europe (and quasi-1st world places like Russia, Turkey, etc) are the future and we're behind everyone else.. that feels to me like the opposite of the hubris so many right wingers have. We have our problems but we're doing pretty well in comparison, overall. Europe might even stand to learn a thing or two from how we do things here.

[DaveW]

 

you might want to check out your demographics, he has other groups also.

 

Source? He is winning with white males (mostly young white males) Hilary is taking everyone else (including the majority of " true independents"/middle of the road types)

[DaveW]

 

 

you might want to check out your demographics, he has other groups also.

 

I hate to break it to you, but what he is proposing is almost inevitable (some of it).....every European nation, Russia, Turkey, Israel......they all do more of what he says than we do. 

To be frank, bringing up Turkey, Russia and Isreal (along with a lot of Europe) doesn't help bolster the case. The US has it's issues, but give me "our issues" over the issues of Russia, Turkey and a bunch of Europe (Greece anyone?) anyday.

I agree that change will come and things will tend to shift (especially in regards to healthcare and hopefully education someday) however you can't just change things overnight and do a 180 degree ideological shift which is what Bernie is yelling on and on about. You can't do that in 2016 in a country the size of the US (both population and economy wise)

 

Bernie would have about as much success (none) working with Congress as would Cruz if either won. I don't understand why people are so willing to bash Cruz for being unrealistic, but praise Bernie. They both would be disasters in the white house and would be a guaranteed one term POTUS (ditto with Trump, who would likely be impeached within his first 100 days)

 

Oh and Bernie still has no real plan for  our international relations.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I have no doubt Europe does some things better than us and we could probably stand to learn a thing or two. But the assumption that "every other first world country," ie. Europe (and quasi-1st world places like Russia, Turkey, etc) are the future and we're behind everyone else.. that feels to me like the opposite of the hubris so many right wingers have. We have our problems but we're doing pretty well in comparison, overall. Europe might even stand to learn a thing or two from how we do things here.

 

I didn't actually say "better" or "behind"......the flow of history doesn't always take the correct course first......nor did I say Europe couldn't learn from the US. Nor, to answer Dave's comments.....no place did I type Europe was better off than the US. Nor did I say that Bernie could do much of anything.

 

I said it was inevitable that the US will do more of what he is suggesting, in the future, than it is now.

 

You are reading things I am not typing at all.....