2016 Election Thread

[Craig Arko]

 

I think if he was more like 45, and good looking*, that he could help start the change that is inevitably coming (if you believe that history repeats itself).

 

*I don't think the USA wants an older guy right now.....

Old guys are cool.

[Squirrel]

I think if he was more like 45, and good looking*, that he could help start the change that is inevitably coming (if you believe that history repeats itself).

 

*I don't think the USA wants an older guy right now.....

Yeah, I was being a tad snarky, not really towards Sanders, more at his followers. And it's not that I don't like some of Sanders' ideology, I do, I just don't think it's entirely practical. Sanders is a career politician towards the end of his career. He has eschewed the major parties for that career and only joined the Democratic Party (did he officially join?) just to run for president. In some ways I feel sorry for him as he's a frustrated lifer who can't get his agenda accomplished, mostly because he hasn't worked well within the party, and now at the end of his career, what has he done to this point? And he wants the support from that and those he spent a lifetime avoiding. Yes, there are those in Congress he did work well with ... Wellstone for one, and Warren currently, and has caucused with the Dems, but he chose the outsider path. And that may be, well, noble even, but then don't all of a sudden want/need/expect support from the party when you've not just avoided them, but have been critical of the parties from the beginning. While I think both parties need some shake up and re-alignment, and Bernie and Trump have shown us that, there still is strength in numbers, which is why it's easier to work from within.

[formerly33]

 

Old guys are cool.

Yeah, and it's mostly people my age who support him anyway. I doubt age plays a significant role in his popularity.

 

And I wouldn't say he's ugly ... though I've always been a bit of a gerontophile.

[nicksaviking]

I think Sanders sticking around is good for Clinton. If she was the run-away winner the Republicans would already be painting themselves as the underdog, which is always a bonus.

 

I like Bernie, but I am 90% concerned with making sure Trump or Cruz aren't elected and only 10% concerned who the Democratic candidate is. Sounds messed up, but that's what I most care about.

 

Bernie's age works against him, but so does his Socialism. In the Democratic primaries, Clinton doesn't hammer away at that and it's getting minimal play in the media. BUT what's going to happen when the self-proclaimed Socialist is in a debate with Trump and Trump starts calling him a Communist? He surely will. Bernie won't be able to sufficiently explain that he isn't a Communist because too many folks will be blinded by the word or too stupid to understand the difference.

 

I still think Bernie would win, but I don't want to take the chance. I also don't want Republicans to energize their base with another Red Scare and get people out to vote who normally wouldn't because they can't bring themselves to vote Trump. Getting the Republicans out to vote who hate Trump but are more afraid of Bernie Stalin will hurt the chances of getting the Senate back.

[TheLeviathan]

Yes, Sanders has some broader support, but the vast majority of his momentum is from the under 30 crowd.  Those of us that have felt the real burn of liberal attempts to cheapen college love the idea of suddenly losing hundreds of dollars a month in student loan payments.  I mean, hell, talk about an economic stimulus package right there.

 

The problem is that "free college" let's the real culprits off the hook.  In fact, it emboldens them to continue the practice of gouging young adults for tens of thousands in mediocre education.  So while my monthly bills would love a dose of Sanders, I prefer someone who might actually work to real solutions rather than look for easy ones that generate enthusiasm.

 

It's that sort of thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The problem is that "free college" let's the real culprits off the hook.  In fact, it emboldens them to continue the practice of gouging young adults for tens of thousands in mediocre education.  So while my monthly bills would love a dose of Sanders, I prefer someone who might actually work to real solutions rather than look for easy ones that generate enthusiasm.

Yeah, exactly. All free college does is put more and more services into a community pot that becomes increasingly difficult to pay.

 

Any push toward higher education reform needs to be accompanied by strict negotiating standards. Pretty much the exact same thing we need to do to healthcare for many of the same reasons, actually.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yeah, exactly. All free college does is put more and more services into a community pot that becomes increasingly difficult to pay.

 

Any push toward higher education reform needs to be accompanied by strict negotiating standards. Pretty much the exact same thing we need to do to healthcare for many of the same reasons, actually.

 

We need a President or 10 that decide:

 

Professors should be a higher percent of employees

College sports are a drain on the quality of education

Huge endowments should be spent on lower tuition, not fancy gym space

 

that's off the top of my head, w/o thinking about it much.

[Willihammer]

 

Yes, Sanders has some broader support, but the vast majority of his momentum is from the under 30 crowd.  Those of us that have felt the real burn of liberal attempts to cheapen college love the idea of suddenly losing hundreds of dollars a month in student loan payments.  I mean, hell, talk about an economic stimulus package right there.

 

The problem is that "free college" let's the real culprits off the hook.  In fact, it emboldens them to continue the practice of gouging young adults for tens of thousands in mediocre education.  So while my monthly bills would love a dose of Sanders, I prefer someone who might actually work to real solutions rather than look for easy ones that generate enthusiasm.

 

It's that sort of thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

Agree with the conclusion but can you really blame colleges for behaving as they do when the federal government pumps $150b of aid into the industry every year?

[Craig Arko]

 

We need a President or 10 that decide:

 

Professors should be a higher percent of employees

College sports are a drain on the quality of education

Huge endowments should be spent on lower tuition, not fancy gym space

 

that's off the top of my head, w/o thinking about it much.

I can share space with these copacetic concepts.

 

Seriously, I despise the way the NCAA rules the roost at what should be institutes of higher learning. I see the crap that goes on at the U of M and it makes me ashamed to admit to being a graduate of the place.

[nicksaviking]

 

We need a President or 10 that decide:

 

Professors should be a higher percent of employees

College sports are a drain on the quality of education

Huge endowments should be spent on lower tuition, not fancy gym space

 

that's off the top of my head, w/o thinking about it much.

 

I agree, but with the second, I fear that the money making sports are taking care of themselves, but without public funds, the non-revenue generating sports will all get the axe. That would include baseball. Not sure what to do about that.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I agree, but with the second, I fear that the money making sports are taking care of themselves, but without public funds, the non-revenue generating sports will all get the axe. That would include baseball. Not sure what to do about that.

 

Get rid of intercollegiate athletics completely. No other country does this......

[Mike Sixel]

By fancy gym space, I meant for students, not athletic programs. That was a shot at how schools are spending money on stuff that is not education related.....like workout rooms, and other things. Those have value, don't get me wrong, but if the choice is tuition, or fancy dorms? Or perfect workout rooms? Or whatever? Lots of money being spent on attracting students, as opposed to educating students. 

 

did I mention I have a Sophomore and Freshman in college right now?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Agree with the conclusion but can you really blame colleges for behaving as they do when the federal government pumps $150b of aid into the industry every year?

 

Do I understand why they are?  Sure, the government gave them a huge, juicy trough to eat out of an they are gorging themselves.  Ultimately the problem falls on a really terrible solution.

 

And Mike, it's not just gyms.  Everything colleges spend those gorged out tuition rates on are advertisements to bring another opportunity to feed at the trough.  It's all one giant scheme and actual education has become worse than a second thought, it's an after-thought.

 

Bernie is doubling down on that mentality.  Europe has cheap education because it also has ridiculously high standards for getting there - not a free pass for anyone that can print their name on a FAFSA.

[Hrbowski]

 

We need a President or 10 that decide:

 

Professors should be a higher percent of employees

College sports are a drain on the quality of education

Huge endowments should be spent on lower tuition, not fancy gym space

 

that's off the top of my head, w/o thinking about it much.

And we have the same problems in High School.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Do I understand why they are?  Sure, the government gave them a huge, juicy trough to eat out of an they are gorging themselves.  Ultimately the problem falls on a really terrible solution.

 

And Mike, it's not just gyms.  Everything colleges spend those gorged out tuition rates on are advertisements to bring another opportunity to feed at the trough.  It's all one giant scheme and actual education has become worse than a second thought, it's an after-thought.

 

Bernie is doubling down on that mentality.  Europe has cheap education because it also has ridiculously high standards for getting there - not a free pass for anyone that can print their name on a FAFSA.

 

i just used gyms as an example......but I agree with everything else you typed. Of course, Europe also has collapsing economies because it got rid of trade protections (somewhat), and now their population is less educated, but there are no more manufacturing jobs out there.......so maybe their model needs to change, or ours does (or, most likely, lots of inter connected things need to change).

[TheLeviathan]

 

And we have the same problems in High School.

 

High school sports are generally funded through participation by the athletes, so I'm not sure that's really true.  I don't mind athletics being tied in with academics necessarily, but the current relationship in colleges is toxic to say the least.

 

Sports have become one of the biggest billboards for student recruitment.  So schools funnel money there hoping the next dumb kid who'll take 6 years to get through will join their school rather than their rival.

[Craig Arko]

Byline in today's Strib:

 

"His party in chaos, a conciliatory Donald Trump pleaded with mainstream Republicans to unify behind his candidacy as his rivals seized on their last best opportunity to block him from building an insurmountable delegate lead."

 

 

Sounds like Babylon 5.

[TheLeviathan]

 

i just used gyms as an example......but I agree with everything else you typed. Of course, Europe also has collapsing economies because it got rid of trade protections (somewhat), and now their population is less educated, but there are no more manufacturing jobs out there.......so maybe their model needs to change, or ours does (or, most likely, lots of inter connected things need to change).

 

Sorry, I was piling on to your point, I didn't mean to come across as disagreeing.  

 

Not all European economies are collapsing.  Germany is thriving and Bernie has actually used Germany as an example for what our college system should look like.  Except, in Germany, at around 4th grade you get put on whatever ultimate track your intelligence seems best suited for.  So for a large segment of their population, they don't even entertain the idea that college is appropriate, much less pay for it for everyone.

[Willihammer]

Do I understand why they are?  Sure, the government gave them a huge, juicy trough to eat out of an they are gorging themselves.  Ultimately the problem falls on a really terrible solution.

 

And Mike, it's not just gyms.  Everything colleges spend those gorged out tuition rates on are advertisements to bring another opportunity to feed at the trough.  It's all one giant scheme and actual education has become worse than a second thought, it's an after-thought.

 

Bernie is doubling down on that mentality.  Europe has cheap education because it also has ridiculously high standards for getting there - not a free pass for anyone that can print their name on a FAFSA.

Just to be clear then, the "really terrible" solution involves changing the qualifications for handing out federal aid from "need based," to "merit based," correct?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Just to be clear then, the "really terrible" solution involves changing the qualifications for handing out federal aid from "need based," to "merit based," correct?

 

Something like that - after there is a forced slash to college tuition rates.  I'm ok with substantial subsidies to public universities too...provided they slash their spending significantly and agree to go back to some rigorous academic.

 

I think one needs to demonstrate both need and ability to be granted federal aid.  We need to go back to a time when you could pay most or all of your tuition while working during college.  It really wasn't as long ago as so many seem to think.

[nicksaviking]

 

Get rid of intercollegiate athletics completely. No other country does this......

 

Are you asking the government to abolish the NCAA?

 

That seems like quite a long shot and can't see how they'd have any standing to do so. The biggest problem with the NCAA is Men's Basketball and Football and not coincidentally, those would be the two sports that the NCAA would probably only give a damn about protecting.

 

All the student athletes in the non-revenue sports would pay the price, the sports causing all the problems will still cause all the problems.

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

A cheap public school is now around 20-25K all in, per year. Think about that........that is 400-500% more than I paid at UW Madison 30 years ago. 400-500%. I can guarantee you incomes haven't risen that fast.......My youngest is going to get half his tuition paid for, and still come out with 100K in debt (his choice to go to an expensive school). $100,000 dollars in debt, before he earns a single penny in a "real" job......yikes.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Are you asking the government to abolish the NCAA?

 

That seems like quite a long shot and can't see how they'd have any standing to do so. The biggest problem with the NCAA is Men's Basketball and Football and not coincidentally, those would be the two sports that the NCAA would probably only give a damn about protecting.

 

All the student athletes in the non-revenue sports would pay the price, the sports causing all the problems will still cause all the problems.

 

Not asking the government to do anything, I thought it was obvious I was talking about University Presidents, my bad.

[ashbury]

 

Byline in today's Strib:

 

"His party in chaos, a conciliatory Donald Trump pleaded with mainstream Republicans to unify behind his candidacy as his rivals seized on their last best opportunity to block him from building an insurmountable delegate lead."

 

 

Sounds like Babylon 5.

Interesting that "last best hope" now evokes J. Michael instead of Abraham.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think one needs to demonstrate both need and ability to be granted federal aid.  We need to go back to a time when you could pay most or all of your tuition while working during college.  It really wasn't as long ago as so many seem to think.

I went to a pretty good California State school in the late 90s and early 2000s (Long Beach State). It cost me a whopping $900 per semester in tuition (roughly two grand per year).

 

At the time, I believe UC schools were about $2500 per semester, which influenced my decision to stick to a Cal State school (and Long Beach was strong in my particular field).

 

So, yeah, not very long ago at all.

[Squirrel]

Noticing the uptick of ads on television ... Trump attacking Rubio, some PAC attacking Trump ... hadn't really seen/heard any of these back in Chicago, but they are hitting Florida pretty heavily now.

[Craig Arko]

Interesting that "last best hope" now evokes J. Michael instead of Abraham.

The long-term memory ain't what it used to be.

[stringer bell]

 

Noticing the uptick of ads on television ... Trump attacking Rubio, some PAC attacking Trump ... hadn't really seen/heard any of these back in Chicago, but they are hitting Florida pretty heavily now.

It's Rubio's last chance and probably establishment last opportunity to stop Trump. If Rubio can't win his home state, he is finished, perhaps for good.

[Craig Arko]

Noticing the uptick of ads on television ... Trump attacking Rubio, some PAC attacking Trump ... hadn't really seen/heard any of these back in Chicago, but they are hitting Florida pretty heavily now.

Fla primary next Tuesday; Rubio is desperate.

 

Edit - Damn Ninjas are everywhere.

[Squirrel]

 

It's Rubio's last chance and probably establishment last opportunity to stop Trump. If Rubio can't win his home state, he is finished, perhaps for good.

Well, definitely for good ... he is giving up his Senate seat and isn't running for re-election; and he won't win the GOP nomination let alone the Presidency, so I'm not sure what's left for him and doubtful he'll be able to successfully run for office again.