Nolasco?

[Linus]

Thought we might as well get a Nolasco thread going after another sub-par performance.  If nothing else, it will direct frustration at a deserved candidate and give Torii a couple day respite.

 

Seriously, why they only made him pitch one rehab start is beyond me.  If I hear any "he's still rusty" or "he's still working towards full strength" I may commit a crime.  I would have had him pitch his way back to the big leagues by pitching effectively in Rochester.  I don't what in the hell they are going to do with this guy.

[Jarends703]

I bet he will come up "injured" again sometime soon if he doesn't start pitching better.  

[clone52]

 

Thought we might as well get a Nolasco thread going after another sub-par performance.  If nothing else, it will direct frustration at a deserved candidate and give Torii a couple day respite.

 

Seriously, why they only made him pitch one rehab start is beyond me.  If I hear any "he's still rusty" or "he's still working towards full strength" I may commit a crime.  I would have had him pitch his way back to the big leagues by pitching effectively in Rochester.  I don't what in the hell they are going to do with this guy.

 

 

Hey, at least he lowered his season ERA.  He's got that going for him, which is nice.

[Dr. Evil]

What was his era just in this game? Something like 7.30?

[Winston Smith]

Topping out at 90-91 mph on his fastball, not good. The good thing is we only have him for 2 3/4 more yrs. That will go by in a flash!

 

Just think how fast those first two years of Pelfry went by.

[Blake]

 

What was his era just in this game? Something like 7.30?

No, that's his current ERA.....it was over 10..oops, never mind, his current ERA is 9.00

[Mike Sixel]

I don't hold out high hopes. I'd guess he has 4-6 more starts to prove many of us wrong. I hope he does.

[Sam Morley]

I would have no problem with the Twins paying Rick not to play baseball, or better yet to play baseball for some other team, preferably in the same division. Should've sent him back to LA for Drew Butera while we had the chance.

[Thegrin]

They are paying Nolasco a ton of $$.  That buys him time until he becomes the Nolasco of old or totally flames out 

[DocBauer]

On a similar but side note, I see Stauffer pitched in a rehab session the side today without pain.

 

However, it was reported he allowed 3 earned runs during the session.

[Wyorev]

After there were 2 outs in the fourth inning, and Nolasco had thrown over 80 pitches - I texted Old Goat and said that Molitor would be my hero if he brought the entire bullpen into the dugout, and made Nolasco pitch the entire game. All 183 pitches or whatever it would take.

The game wouldn't have ended til about 10 p.m. though.

He is miserable to watch.

As is Pelfrey. 

They bring a game to a glacial pace.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Hey - Ricky got the win yesterday. That proves he's a "gamer" and "just knows how to win." He had more wins than Phil Hughes, who can't seem to pitch well enough for the Twins to score more runs for him.

[stringer bell]

Honestly, I saw the question about Kyle Gibson, followed directly by this thread "Nolasco?" and thought there's the answer to the luckiest person question.

[gunnarthor]

Mike's right.  He'll get a few more starts so we might as well hope he turns it around.  It would be nice if Meyer or someone would start pressing him but until then, he'll get those starts.

[Linus]

It would certainly be interesting if he stinks for a couple more starts and Milone pitches like yesterday

[drock2190]

Has he ever had a scoreless outing with the Twins?

 

Someone post his best pitching line as a Twin.

[gunnarthor]

 

Has he ever had a scoreless outing with the Twins?

 

Someone post his best pitching line as a Twin.

A couple.  By game score, his two best outings were last year - aug 26 against KC 7ip, 3 3h, 6k, 0runs and Sept 16 against Det, 8ip, 5h, 5k, 0 runs.

 

He actually pitched pretty well at the end of the year last year.  Hopefully he starts a nice little run again.

[mnsportsgeek]

I honestly don't understand why we signed this guy. He had 1 good year in the national league in 2013 and somehow we have him 12+ mil a year. And he actually has to pitch to 9 batters here in the AL. The worst part about this is we are still stuck with him through 2017. A ridiculous waste of money.

[jorgenswest]

There are 10 pitchers in the history of baseball that pitched regularly from ages 26-31 with an ERA+ below 90. Ricky's ERA+ in that time frame is 87.

 

Yes. I know his FIP is better. FIP is a better predictor when using a single season of data. This is 6 seasons of data and 1100 innings. The actual performance has more meaning.

 

Back to the 10. Five of them were pitching 100 or more years ago. They probably aren't relevant. The other 5 are Ricky, Andy Hawkins, Dennis Martinez, Shawn Estes and Jaime Navarro. The Twins are paying Nolasco through age 34. The others age 32-34

 

Hawkins pitched poorly at 31 (as did Nolasco) and did not pitch again.

 

Two had there last full season as a starter at 32 with a few starts bouncing around after 32

Navarro 193 IP, 8-19 6.85 ERA 72 ERA+

Estes 130 IP, 4-9, 4.79 ERA 92 ERA+

 

Dennis Martinez suddenly turned his career around with a trade to Montreal. He was 29-23 with a 3.32 ERA in 484 innings from age 32-34 and  better after 34.

 

Extend the list to an ERA+ of 95 and you don't find anyone else other than Martinez who became a better than league average pitcher after going through their prime well below league average.

 

Nolasco's comp group of pitcher is small. Pitchers who pitch at an ERA+ of 87 through their prime are not given contracts in their decline. 

 

It is unreasonable to expect that Nolasco will pitch better from age 32-34 than he did from 26-31? I wouldn't think so. Even if he is able to maintain his 87 ERA+ for the next three years, that isn't going to help the Twins. 

 

How much risk is there in releasing him and going with the 28 year old Milone (career ERA+ of 97) until Santana returns or Meyer is ready?

 

 

[drivlikejehu]

The Twins aren't stuck with Nolasco at all. They can tell him to get lost at any time... the money is already gone.

 

Of course, practically speaking the Twins will give Nolasco a lot of leeway, but ultimately how many games do they want him to lose on top of the money he's eating? 

[Ben Noble]

It's hard to have empathy or root for a dude who comes off as a complete toolbag but, in the spirit of some truly gorgeous weather in Minneapolis this morning, I'll point out that Nolasco has allowed just two walks total in his last two starts, has yet to allow a HR this season and hasn't given up a run in the first inning since early September of last season.

 

None of this is particularly impressive by any means, but I'm feeling unreasonably optimistic this morning: when Santana comes back from his suspension, Nolasco will go back to his given name and transform himself into Carlos Nolasco, league-average and grossly-overpaid middle reliever.

[Blake]

 

The Twins aren't stuck with Nolasco at all. They can tell him to get lost at any time... the money is already gone.

 

Of course, practically speaking the Twins will give Nolasco a lot of leeway, but ultimately how many games do they want him to lose on top of the money he's eating? 

How long a leash Nolasco is given depends on the Twins commitment to winning this year. If the Twins continue to win despite subpar starts by Nolasco and yet the Twins continue to put Nolasco on the mound tells me the Twins are not committed to winning this year.

[jorgenswest]

How long a leash Nolasco is given depends on the Twins commitment to winning this year. If the Twins continue to win despite subpar starts by Nolasco and yet the Twins continue to put Nolasco on the mound tells me the Twins are not committed to winning this year.

I think they believe Nolasco gives them a better chance to win than Milone or the other options right now. I think they believe that the pitcher they evaluated in 2013 can still surface. In order to commit 50 million you have work really hard to convince yourself that you are making a good decision. It is hard to let that belief go.

[Blake]

 

I think they believe Nolasco gives them a better chance to win than Milone or the other options right now. I think they believe that the pitcher they evaluated in 2013 can still surface. In order to commit 50 million you have work really hard to convince yourself that you are making a good decision. It is hard to let that belief go.

I agree, the Twins are going to give Nolasco every chance to succeed, simply because they are paying him a lot of money. I also agree the Twins shouldn't give up too quickly. Of course, how do you define "too quickly?"

 

If I were Terry Ryan, I would have a case of Tums by my desk at all times during this season. I know Ryan gets paid a lot of money, but issues like Nolasco are ulcer inducing.

[drivlikejehu]

 

I think they believe Nolasco gives them a better chance to win than Milone or the other options right now. I think they believe that the pitcher they evaluated in 2013 can still surface. In order to commit 50 million you have work really hard to convince yourself that you are making a good decision. It is hard to let that belief go.

 

One possible counter-point is that the Twins signed Santana to a long-term deal despite also having some starter prospects close to the Majors. 

 

Assuming Gibson and May stay in the rotation, that leaves zero spots until 2018. Now, obviously pitchers get hurt, but will they really want to send a guy like Berrios up and down as an injury replacement for a long period of time, especially if he's their best starter by then? Will they trade away a cheap young starter like May?

 

The Twins may be hopeful but they aren't going to let Nolasco drag the team down for multiple seasons... they won't even tolerate it for the rest of this season if he can't be at least passable.

[DocBauer]

On the other hand............

 

A) The Twins need 5 starters and the Twins seem to believe he is a better option than the surprising and rejuvenated Pelfrey...(did I really just type that?)...or the soft tossing lefty Milone. Not sure I'd disagree with them. And isn't it interesting that May, a possible fixture going forward, was kept over any veteran or "scholarship" excuse.

 

Nolasco has been injured, seemingly since he arrived, and has yet to really show what he's capable of. (Sounds like another veteran RH who gets a lot of type here) So being in the rotation may be more about living up to expectation than merely earning a keep.

 

C) Sooner or later, Santana will be ready to pitch for the Twins off his suspension. Where do you put him? Barring injury, a move will have to be made. Would you rather see the Twins dump someone and eat the contract, stash them in the bullpen, or would you rather see someone like Nolasco show some actual worth and be traded for an actual prospect of some value and not have to eat the entirety of his contract?

 

Believe it or not...and it's hard too...the Twins are actually kind of long on starting pitching right now. Nolasco gives us 6. You could make a strong arguement that Milone, based on track record, should be pitching for someone...(kind of like when we acquired him last season)...and is a better alternative than several SP'ers the Twins trolled out to the mount the past few years. On top of that, it is very conceivable we may have Berrios, Meyer and a couple others ready for a shot come the second half of the season.

 

We should all be rooting for Nolasco right now. Not only for the Twins to win, but for someone else to want him.

[kab21]

There is no such thing as too much pitching when none of your pitchers are aces and you have had as many problems as the Twins have had with starting pitching.  I also think that Nolasco has only been delaying the inevitable and will get TJ at some point this season. 

 

Right now the Twins have questions marks everywhere in the rotation.  Hughes and Santana should be solid when Santana returns.  After that nobody is lock to stay in the rotation.  Mays is doing very well right now so he is getting close to locking down his spot.  Gibson in theory should have a spot locked down but he isn't striking anyone out and appears to be becoming the next Blackburn instead of Baker.  Everyone expects Pelfrey to turn into a pumpkin (except Thrylos).  Milone is a backend guy that is an acceptable fill-in.  Meyer has fallen apart in AAA.

 

I'm pessimistic that Nolasco pitches well this season (due to injury) but this is not a great rotation with too many starters.

[Platoon]

The Twins aren't stuck with Nolasco at all. They can tell him to get lost at any time... the money is already gone.

You're TR, your FO won lost record has taken a hit in the last few years, you just fired a manager, you have dumped millions into middling veteran pitchers, your last one got suspended, you know getting rid of Nolasco is an admission of failure, your stuck with him!

[drivlikejehu]

 

You're TR, your FO won lost record has taken a hit in the last few years, you just fired a manager, you have dumped millions into middling veteran pitchers, your last one got suspended, you know getting rid of Nolasco is an admission of failure, your stuck with him!

 

Ownership wants a winning team that brings in revenue. If Nolasco is holding the Twins back, TR has no choice but to move on.

[Mill1634]

Who does Santana replace after 80 games?