Nolasco to have MRI

[DocBauer]

 

So it'll just grow back again, then, will it?

 

"BING!"

[shs_59]

Was a fan of the Nolasco deal at the time (athough i thought the twins slightly over-paid him) 11 MM per would of been much better. 45 MM total instead of 49 for instance.

 

Wasn't nearly in line with the Ervin Santana signing.

 

And Now it look as if both these contracts could unjustly undue the Twins future.

 

They're both near untradable , and both eat the salary that would otherwise allow any roster flexability.

 

This is really just great.

 

 

FREE OSWALDO ARCIA, UNLEASH THE BEAST within him.

[laloesch]

 

These pitchers were up at 21 - Santana, Liriano

22 - Lohse, Milton, Radke, Garza

23 - Mays, Baker, Slowey

24- Boof, May

25 - Perkins, Gibson

26 - Blackburn

 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to include the first four from that list (Radke, Milton, Mays & Lohse).  And what's the point anyways?  Most of these pitchers debuted in the late 90's to mid 2000's with the exception of Gibson.  And he likely wouldn't have gotten the opportunity in 2013 had Sam Deduno stayed healthy and Scott Diamond & Mike Pelfrey had been halfway effective.  

 

 

Brad Radke (debuted 1995)

Eric Milton (debuted 1998)

Joe Mays (debuted 1999)

Kyle Lohse (2001)

Scott Baker (2005)

Boof Bonser (2006)

Matt Garza (2006)

Kevin Slowey (2007)

Glen Perkins (2007)

Nick Blackburn (2007)

Kyle Gibson (2013)

[gunnarthor]

 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to include the first four from that list (Radke, Milton, Mays & Lohse).  And what's the point anyways?  Most of these pitchers debuted in the late 90's to mid 2000's with the exception of Gibson.  And he likely wouldn't have gotten the opportunity in 2013 had Sam Deduno stayed healthy and Scott Diamond & Mike Pelfrey had been halfway effective.  

 

 

Brad Radke (debuted 1995)

Eric Milton (debuted 1998)

Joe Mays (debuted 1999)

Kyle Lohse (2001)

Scott Baker (2005)

Boof Bonser (2006)

Matt Garza (2006)

Kevin Slowey (2007)

Glen Perkins (2007)

Nick Blackburn (2007)

Kyle Gibson (2013)

Just listed prominent pitchers who debuted under Ryan's watch (95-07, 12-now) and their ages. You had suggested that we all know Ryan doesn't promote pitching prospects so it was probably a good thing to put a bit of that into perspective.

[tobi0040]

 

I think it's a bit of a stretch to include the first four from that list (Radke, Milton, Mays & Lohse).  And what's the point anyways?  Most of these pitchers debuted in the late 90's to mid 2000's with the exception of Gibson.  And he likely wouldn't have gotten the opportunity in 2013 had Sam Deduno stayed healthy and Scott Diamond & Mike Pelfrey had been halfway effective.  

 

 

Brad Radke (debuted 1995)

Eric Milton (debuted 1998)

Joe Mays (debuted 1999)

Kyle Lohse (2001)

Scott Baker (2005)

Boof Bonser (2006)

Matt Garza (2006)

Kevin Slowey (2007)

Glen Perkins (2007)

Nick Blackburn (2007)

Kyle Gibson (2013)

 

Who should have debuted earlier is the question?  This has been discussed on several threads. From 2002 to 2010 or so the Twins primarily drafted high school position players AND had a fairly decent rotation. The picks we hit on, Garza and Gibson primarily were up relatively as quick as they could have been.  The two other coup's from rule 5 and trades were up very young as well (Santana and Liriano).   The list of pitchers we drafted that busted didn't reach the majors because they were terrible.

 

May and Meyer often get cited, but the fact is neither was with our organization until they were 22.  One came off a year at AA in which his ERA was near 5.00 (May) and the other just finished a year in low A. May was up here within a year and a half and Meyer was on a pitch count all last year and did have some control issues that he still has displayed up to this point.

 

Until somebody can articulate exactly which players were not brought up fast enough and can display a list that is at least as long as the players that were brought up too early this argument is getting a little old for me.

 

The issue isn't the Twins being too slow to promote guys, but rather not having players good enough to bring up.

 

 

 

[Jham]

Nolasco quotes postgame: "I put in a lot of hard work and all that, but one start isn't going to kill you as far as mental-wise, so I just have to go back to work and do what I have to do for the next one."

 

"I got myself into a bad situation," Nolasco said. "I couldn't make a pitch. A couple balls fell for them. I didn't give us a chance to win. The game got out of control early. There's not much you can do."

 

Nowhere did he say anything about an elbow.  It sounds like he was generally unconcerned with the start and was ready to go out again and do better. Then the next day his elbow hurt?  I don't buy it.

 

Nolasco's velocity didn't dip by much after facing Avila, as he remained in the game to throw six more pitches, including three sliders and three fastballs registered at 88, 88 and 87 mph.

[Mike Sixel]

I find it hard to believe he's "faking it"......I just don't see it.

 

That said, athletes fake injuries ALL THE TIME.....so I could be wrong. But I doubt it.

[Oxtung]

 

Nolasco will probably make the next start when the MRI shows nothing.

May is scheduled to start on Saturday. If he makes that start, Wheeler and Hamburger are the next two scheduled starters.

If Nolasco is indeed out, the Twins could bring up May and start him on Saturday pushing back Milone and Pelfrey.

Oh God….. I bought tickets for the home opener.  Oh God what have I done.  Oh the humanity!  Please don't inflict Milone or Pelfrey on us for the opener.  

 

I'm telling you right now, if one of those two start on Monday I'm spending the entire game in one of the bars getting drunk and yelling about how terrible the Twins are until they toss me out on my ass.

[jimmer]

 

 

I'm telling you right now, if one of those two start on Monday I'm spending the entire game in one of the bars getting drunk and yelling about how terrible the Twins are until they toss me out on my ass.

So, a normal Monday then? :-)

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Milone and Pelf probably would be the least likely to start since they are scheduled to start this weekend.

 

It's most likely Nolasco; if he can't go, they might push back Hughes a day, or Gibson moved a day early, or they'll call someone up to take the start(s) that Nolasco is going to miss.  

 

[HitInAPinch]

CBS Sport says:

 

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasybaseball/update/25141865/twins-sp-ricky-nolasco-headed-for-mri-on-elbow

 

quote from Molitor....

[laloesch]

 

Who should have debuted earlier is the question?  This has been discussed on several threads. From 2002 to 2010 or so the Twins primarily drafted high school position players AND had a fairly decent rotation. The picks we hit on, Garza and Gibson primarily were up relatively as quick as they could have been.  The two other coup's from rule 5 and trades were up very young as well (Santana and Liriano).   The list of pitchers we drafted that busted didn't reach the majors because they were terrible.

 

May and Meyer often get cited, but the fact is neither was with our organization until they were 22.  One came off a year at AA in which his ERA was near 5.00 (May) and the other just finished a year in low A. May was up here within a year and a half and Meyer was on a pitch count all last year and did have some control issues that he still has displayed up to this point.

 

Until somebody can articulate exactly which players were not brought up fast enough and can display a list that is at least as long as the players that were brought up too early this argument is getting a little old for me.

 

The issue isn't the Twins being too slow to promote guys, but rather not having players good enough to bring up.

 

I know what your saying and i get it.  I just don't agree but thats okay.

[jimmer]

'The issue isn't the Twins being too slow to promote guys, but rather not having players good enough to bring up'

 

So is this because of:  

poor drafting

poor development

poor evaluation of prospects when trading for them

Some of the above

None of the above

[tobi0040]

 

I know what your saying and i get it.  I just don't agree but thats okay.

 

Who should have been brought up sooner?  It has to be more than one, as Hicks was clearly brought up too early. 

[tobi0040]

 

'The issue isn't the Twins being too slow to promote guys, but rather not having players good enough to bring up'

 

So is this because of:  

poor drafting

poor development

poor evaluation of prospects when trading for them

Some of the above

None of the above

 

I think the culprits are drafting, targeting high school players, and having picks routinely in the 20-30 range.

 

For instance, Buxton, Sano, and Berrios will all be up at or before age 22.  Rosario 23 or so.  Vargas was up at 23.  Arcia at 22.  Now we have prospects AND places for them.

 

 

[jimmer]

 

I think the culprits are drafting, targeting high school players, and having picks routinely in the 20-30 range.

 

For instance, Buxton, Sano, and Berrios will all be up at or before age 22.  Rosario 23 or so.  Vargas was up at 23.  Arcia at 22.  Now we have prospects AND places for them.

So nothing to do with development or poor evaluation of other teams' player for trading? There are teams that seem to get quality players past the first 19 picks of round one. Cards have been drafting late for quite some time too.

 

and May/Meyer?

 

What is wrong with targeting high school players?

 

Edit: I re-read this and it sounds snarky.  Wrote it fairly quickly amongst doing other things.  Wasn't meant to be snarky.

 

[h2oface]

This is unfortunate for Nolasco, but good news for the Twins. If this is what it takes to really start getting May and Meyer in the rotation, so be it. (Berrios, too for that matter.)  Forces are working to get Ryan to do what he should have done.

 

Ready? Not ready you say? You don't know that ever until you give them the opportunity. Never, ever. Talk talk talk. They can't be any less ready than what Nolasco and Pelfrey and Correia (and Pino and Logan and Walters and Hendrick et al) have shown us in the recent past. Middlebrooks thought Meyer was plenty ready last year when he faced him in rehab. I don't see how it could be worse than it is right now. Worried about that mediocre (and that is being kind) bullpen getting overworked to soon? No worries. Just continue to replace them, too, as the season progresses with more from the farm. It will work out to the best.

[h2oface]

 

Who should have been brought up sooner?  It has to be more than one, as Hicks was clearly brought up too early. 

Hicks should only be an example for himself. Nobody else is Hicks. You could just as well use examples that didn't have problems as someone that did. None of these other guys are Hicks, and will have a unique career all of their own. It is time to get on with it. 

[tobi0040]

 

Hicks should only be an example for himself. Nobody else is Hicks. You could just as well use examples that didn't have problems as someone that did. None of these other guys are Hicks, and will have a unique career all of their own. It is time to get on with it. 

 

Okay. So on the moving too quick side it is the players fault.  But on the other side, which you have not named a single player, it is the teams fault?

 

Meyer is the guy most brought up.  He showed up in spring training and walked 5 guys in 5 innings, literally no control at all on his fastball.  None.  In his start today at AAA, he goes 5 innings and walks 6 batters.  At some point the player here, not the Twins need to own his lack of promotion. 

[h2oface]

 

Okay. So on the moving too quick side it is the players fault.  But on the other side, which you have not named a single player, it is the teams fault?

 

Meyer is the guy most brought up.  He showed up in spring training and walked 5 guys in 5 innings, literally no control at all on his fastball.  None.  In his start today at AAA, he goes 5 innings and walks 6 batters.  At some point the player here, not the Twins need to own his lack of promotion. 

I am just expressing my opinion. I am not assigning fault. Nolasco didn't last 5 innings (3). Hughes gave up 4 runs in 6 innings, and Meyer gave up 3 runs in 5 innings.  (And to be fair, Meyer's start was also 1 run in 5 innings. He started the sixth with two walks, more tired, and getting stretched out because he didn't get that in spring training with his grandfather's untimely death. Logan Darnell gave up the inherited runs. If there was good relief, or he didn't come out for the 6th, it would be little different song to sing about him. 4 walks in 5 innings and only one run given up. He also hit 101 on the gun today.) I would take that start over Nalasco's yesterday, regardless of the walks. Meyer is unique. He is not any other player I could list. I am not interested in lists. I am interested in getting on with it and seeing what Meyer can do in the show, for better or worse. I don't see how it can be worse for this team to see, and give him the opportunity, and stick with him for a while. 

[jorgenswest]

Meyer hit 101 on the gun today. There have been other pitchers who didn't reduce their walk rate until after they were in the majors. I don't think there is anything he is going to learn in AAA. When he throws it over the plate, AAA hitters don't put it in play enough.

 

The twins are projected for around 70 wins. Seems like the perfect year to give him 25 starts and see if he can figure it out.

[Mill1634]

 

We should call up Hamburger, local kid, minor league veteran, just an all around good story, (plus we want that first pick next year.)

 By the time this years 1st pick is called up, Buxton will be ready to retire.

[diehardtwinsfan]

MLB hitters will certainly do a better job of hitting Meyer.  I don't think that's unrealistic.  I don't see how that's going to reduce his walk rate unless we are arguing that no one bothers to take the bat off their shoulders.  That said, I don't see that changing in the big leagues.  Those walks will still come, except that some hitters can and will punish pitches that aren't good. 

[Mike Sixel]

I could handle 3-4 walks in 6 innings, if lots of Ks and weak contact were there too.....but 6 walks in 5 innings? that's too many for him to be next in line, imo.

[tobi0040]

 

I could handle 3-4 walks in 6 innings, if lots of Ks and weak contact were there too.....but 6 walks in 5 innings? that's too many for him to be next in line, imo.

 

Yeah.  If the guy has 5 BB's every 9 or so.  This year, on this team?  Sure.  Why not.  But he has 11 walks in his last 10 innings.  It is hard for me to fault the Twins for not bringing him up.  Let the guy at least figure out which direction the ball is going before making his MLB debut.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

By the way, Meyer did not have control problems when Twins traded for him.

 

For those of you who agree with the Twins that Meyer should remain in AAA, what do you personally feel is the reason he has not met expectations or cannot throw strikes, or whatever? What is there left to do, that you would like to see the Twins try?

[twinscowboysbulls]

 

I could handle 3-4 walks in 6 innings, if lots of Ks and weak contact were there too.....but 6 walks in 5 innings? that's too many for him to be next in line, imo.

 

May is next in line, no worries. I mean after Stauffer and Hamburger. Who I consider to be legitimate pieces to this Minny-Sota rebuild! 

 

Seriously though, if we are going to lose, don't you want to take a chance and find out if your "stud" prospects are actually any good? Especially when said prospects have repeated levels multiple times... I mean, how many innings does May have to actually log in AAA? Meyer?

 

We've been through this too many times to count. I am never going to stop being a Twins fan, but boy there sure are quite a few days where I wish I could!

[jorgenswest]

A walk rate in the 9s won't work, but last year's walk rate was not unusual in AAA for a pitcher with good stuff.

 

Other pitchers with high AAA/AA walk rates.

 

Hernandez 4.9

Price 4.6
Lester 4.3
Samardzija 4.2

 

I don't know if he can pitch at the major league level. I just don't think he is going to get any closer to ready pitching in AAA. He was best the first half of last season and his efforts to bring down his walk rate have sent him in reverse. 

 

May and Meyer need to be in the rotation this year and the Twins need to assess whether they can grow into mid rotation starters. They already spent 100 million in search on the back end of the rotation.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree, they should be up, that's how the Twins will get more information. I thought both should be up last year........and stay up.

[tobi0040]

 

By the way, Meyer did not have control problems when Twins traded for him.

For those of you who agree with the Twins that Meyer should remain in AAA, what do you personally feel is the reason he has not met expectations or cannot throw strikes, or whatever? What is there left to do, that you would like to see the Twins try?

 

From what I understand, his mechanics are all over the place. 

 

The flip side is, if a guy is walking more than a guy an inning in AAA, what do you expect to happen by promoting him?  He is suddenly going to gain some control against better hitters?