What we know, TR doesn't

[clutterheart]

Its too early for all this. Did anyone here expect them to be good?

I sure didn't.

 

But let it play out for a month or two and see how the young kids do in the minors.

I suspect they will be quick with the hook and bring up young players quickly.

[jimmer]

 

Its too early for all this. Did anyone here expect them to be good?
I sure didn't.

But let it play out for a month or two and see how the young kids do in the minors.
I suspect they will be quick with the hook and bring up young players quickly.

Which 'young kids' you talking about? The 25 year old Meyer, the 25 year old May or some other ones? :-)  Ryan has spoken of Buxton coming up soon, but what else is he going to say? Maybe he will or won't, but I wouldn't expect any other kind of statement from Ryan.  Got to sell hope. And, while there weren't many options for CF out there in FA market this offseason, there may have been options available in trade either this year or in FA or trade the previous two years.

[gunnarthor]

 

But he's not ready, right? How can you block someone who has 3 PAs above A+? He's 3 years out probably. Hicks was a little closer but was still too far off to hand him the job.

Its funny this team has no problem blocking AAA pitchers with multiple years of dominance but promising A+ position players? Clear the way!

Ryan has already said he expects Buxton up this year, as have many prospect watchers.  But assume he wasn't.  What was the alternative?  Rasmus?  There weren't a lot of solid CF options on a one year deal out there.  

 

And the Twins don't have any pitchers who have dominated AAA for years but I do wish one of Meyer or May were in the rotation.  But they will be soon enough.

[gunnarthor]

 

I think good GMs try and "block" prospects all the time. Particularly when the prospect being "blocked" hasn't gotten out of A ball. My guess is good GMs don't worry about "blocking" prospects because they know the most likely outcome is that nobody is being "blocked" at all. Most prospects never force their way into the big leagues, including shiny ones like Byron Buxton. And if they do, that's a marvelous situation to be in...having two players is WAY better than having zero.

If TR truly is purposely punting CF solely on the HOPE that some day out there in the future Byron Buxton MIGHT be a competent MLB CFer, we need a new GM.

Happens all the time, esp with top prospects.  Hoyer traded Vilanueva to make way for Bryant. Ryan traded AJ to make way for Mauer. Rays changed their infield for Longoria.  Nats made room for Harper. Angels made room for Trout.

 

Sure, sometimes GMs let things bottleneck.  Rangers let Profar sit on the bench for a few years. Dodger moved Ethier to the bench for Pederson and traded Kemp. Phillies kept Howard in the minors for years.  (Seattle did the same to Edgar). 

[notoriousgod71]

 

Agreed 100% You don't just end up the GM (who has had some solid success btw) of a major league baseball team due to luck or accident.

 

 

Bill Smith says hello.

[notoriousgod71]

What is most infuriating about this team is outside of Hunter and a couple random spare parts this is the exact same team as last year.

 

You suck, make some changes.

[TheLeviathan]

This is not a three month problem.  CF has been a problem for THREE YEARS.  Even if you want to believe Buxton is here by July, that's still half of this season and two previously bungled seasons.

[jimmer]

 

Bill Smith says hello.

Remember who hand picked him to be his successor? :-)

[jokin]

 

Bill Smith says hello.

 

Easily the threadwinner (and Smith came highly recommended by his "genius" predecessor).

 

Edit: sorry to steal your thunder, Jimmer, typing while you were posting.

[USAFChief]

Happens all the time, esp with top prospects.  Hoyer traded Vilanueva to make way for Bryant. Ryan traded AJ to make way for Mauer. Rays changed their infield for Longoria.  Nats made room for Harper. Angels made room for Trout.

 

Sure, sometimes GMs let things bottleneck.  Rangers let Profar sit on the bench for a few years. Dodger moved Ethier to the bench for Pederson and traded Kemp. Phillies kept Howard in the minors for years.  (Seattle did the same to Edgar).

 

Those constitute a handful of examples in what, more than a decade? And I would argue none of them are examples of "blocked" prospects. Their future success wasn't based on success in the low minors, and when they were ready to force their way into the big leagues, voila! Turns out they weren't blocked. Trades happened...because its better to have two players than none, which is what you stand a good chance of having if you "unblock" the path of a minor leaguer.

[Willihammer]

Ryan has already said he expects Buxton up this year, as have many prospect watchers.  But assume he wasn't.  What was the alternative?

San-tan-aaaaaaa

[Willihammer]

Buxton is 3 years out? lol no, 3 months maybe.

What are you drinking and can I have some

[Tibs]

You need to calm down.

[jokin]

 

San-tan-aaaaaaa

 

Once Molly announced that Santana was his SS, it was clear that this was going to be another rebuilding year.  Rosario is likely to get regular time in CF before Santana is put back out there.

[chopper0080]

Probably the better way to put it is, what do I know that Terry Ryan won't admit.

 

1-This roster lacks anything beyond average talent, and has for the past two years.  As good as we may want Plouffe, Mauer, and Dozier to be, they are average MLB players.  The rest are not even that at this point, though Vargas and Santana have shown out for a stretch

 

2-We are not close to a contending team.  We break even or are out matched in terms of talent at most positions when we take the field.  That means our room for error is almost zero. 

 

3-We lack any one area that we can count on in terms of hitting, fielding, starting pitching, or the bullpen.  Day in and day out, we have nothing to hang our hat on which is the biggest difference between now and when we were a playoff team.  We can't count on starting pitching to go deep in games, we can't count on good fielding to reduce extra bases, we can't out hit teams, and our relief pitching doesn't shut other teams down.

 

4-Our starting pitching is based more on hope than talent.  Hope that Hughes can continue to not be the pitcher he was in New York.  Hope that Gibson can gain consistency.  Hope that Milone can be the player he was before his demotion in Oakland.  Hope Nolasco can be the inconsistent player he was before we acquired him instead of the bad one since.

 

5-I know that our current roster is setting up Buxton and Sano to have weight of the franchise on their backs as soon as they are called up which is a great way to ruin them.  Same for Berrios.  Trout became a superstar on his own.  Harper as well.  Same with Kershaw.  None of them came up with the pressure that Ryan is putting on these guys.

 

6-Right now, the "Twins Way" is losing games.  Multiple 90 loss seasons in a row changes the culture of an organization and is hard to turn around.  It is tough for players to believe things will break the right way for them to be successful when they are failing as much as we have been.  Confidence is key to winning in baseball, and the Twins have very little right now.

[gunnarthor]

 

Those constitute a handful of examples in what, more than a decade? And I would argue none of them are examples of "blocked" prospects. Their future success wasn't based on success in the low minors, and when they were ready to force their way into the big leagues, voila! Turns out they weren't blocked. Trades happened...because its better to have two players than none, which is what you stand a good chance of having if you "unblock" the path of a minor leaguer.

There are tons of examples.  Teams don't block guys like Buxton. The Twins were never going to go out and get someone to be anything more than a placeholder.  If they had somebody in house playing well (like Plouffe at third) fine.  And there wasn't a lot on the market - mlbtraderumors lists only a few true CFers signed on their FA tracker - Span (option year), Rasmus (1yr/8m Houston), Gwynn (minor league) and Nyjer Morgan (Korea).  Other guys like Sizemore (1y/2m) have moved off the position.  So their options were trade for a place holder or go with Hicks/Schafer and some waiver claims (Robinson).  That was the right thing to do.

[brvama]

Good grief! It's over. I can't take anymore. Send in the clowns!

[jokin]

 

Good grief! It's over. I can't take anymore. Send in the clowns!

 

Don't bother, they're here...

[jokin]

 

There are tons of examples.  Teams don't block guys like Buxton. The Twins were never going to go out and get someone to be anything more than a placeholder.  If they had somebody in house playing well (like Plouffe at third) fine.  And there wasn't a lot on the market - mlbtraderumors lists only a few true CFers signed on their FA tracker - Span (option year), Rasmus (1yr/8m Houston), Gwynn (minor league) and Nyjer Morgan (Korea).  Other guys like Sizemore (1y/2m) have moved off the position.  So their options were trade for a place holder or go with Hicks/Schafer and some waiver claims (Robinson).  That was the right thing to do.

 

Dexter Fowler was available in trade, reasonably, twice.

[nicksaviking]

I'm liking posts on both sides of the ?arguement?

 

In no way is Ryan clueless, it's simply likely he's following different clues than many of us prefer. Some of those clues may be unstated and from higher powers strongly pointing to the belief that another 90 loss season or declining attendance may call for more heads to roll of those near and dear to Ryan. Surely it's a tough spot.

 

These same clues would tell me there's a good chance Buxton is promoted, ready or not, in early summer even if out of desperation.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Sure.  Teams tend not to try and block top prospects.  I suppose they could have tried to sign Rasmus or some other place holder but at a certain point, it doesn't matter who is holding it down until he gets here.

 

it absolutely matters who is holding the place. With a team that averages 37 years old (not serious, but close) 13 or more of the 25 are placeholders for every team.

[jokin]

 

I'm liking posts on both sides of the ?arguement?

In no way is Ryan clueless, it's simply likely he's following different clues than many of us prefer. Some of those clues may be unstated and from higher powers strongly pointing to the belief that another 90 loss season or declining attendance may call for more heads to roll of those near and dear to Ryan. Surely it's a tough spot.

 

 

Terry Ryan is definitely not clueless.  But it would be best for the club to move on, perhaps offer Ryan an executive position that played to his strengths- an emphasis on prospect talent assessment, and hire someone younger at the GM helm, someone who fits the current era of MLB better.  I believe Terry Ryan himself recognized that the game had passed him by,when nearly EIGHT years ago, he said it best at his own resignation press conference:

 

 

 

"I look like I'm 75 but I'm 53, and I'd probably be better served out in the field and out there on the diamond instead of behind that desk," said Ryan, who choked back tears during Thursday's news conference at the Dome.

 

"The game has changed since I've entered," Ryan said. "It's for bright, energetic negotiators, moreso than anything I possess."

 

[SwainZag]

Lol. 2 games in.  2 flippin' games.  Amazing.

[Thrylos]

 

Lol. 2 games in.  2 flippin' games.  Amazing.

 

Nah.  It is the cherry on top of the last 162 x 4  = 648 games.  

 

So, about 650 games in.  Not 2 

[BD57]

"scoring a run" would be a nice start.

 

 

[Hrbowski]

 

Probably the better way to put it is, what do I know that Terry Ryan won't admit.

 

1-This roster lacks anything beyond average talent, and has for the past two years.  As good as we may want Plouffe, Mauer, and Dozier to be, they are average MLB players.  The rest are not even that at this point, though Vargas and Santana have shown out for a stretch

 

2-We are not close to a contending team.  We break even or are out matched in terms of talent at most positions when we take the field.  That means our room for error is almost zero. 

 

3-We lack any one area that we can count on in terms of hitting, fielding, starting pitching, or the bullpen.  Day in and day out, we have nothing to hang our hat on which is the biggest difference between now and when we were a playoff team.  We can't count on starting pitching to go deep in games, we can't count on good fielding to reduce extra bases, we can't out hit teams, and our relief pitching doesn't shut other teams down.

 

4-Our starting pitching is based more on hope than talent.  Hope that Hughes can continue to not be the pitcher he was in New York.  Hope that Gibson can gain consistency.  Hope that Milone can be the player he was before his demotion in Oakland.  Hope Nolasco can be the inconsistent player he was before we acquired him instead of the bad one since.

 

5-I know that our current roster is setting up Buxton and Sano to have weight of the franchise on their backs as soon as they are called up which is a great way to ruin them.  Same for Berrios.  Trout became a superstar on his own.  Harper as well.  Same with Kershaw.  None of them came up with the pressure that Ryan is putting on these guys.

 

6-Right now, the "Twins Way" is losing games.  Multiple 90 loss seasons in a row changes the culture of an organization and is hard to turn around.  It is tough for players to believe things will break the right way for them to be successful when they are failing as much as we have been.  Confidence is key to winning in baseball, and the Twins have very little right now.

1-Mauer, Dozier, Plouffe, Hughes, and Perkins are above average players.

2-People didn't think that the '87 or '91 teams could compete.

3-Our offense was the 7th best in the Majors last year, and in baseball you can't count on anything.

4-Nolasco was not inconsistent, he frequently went deep into ballgames and he was a winner.

5-Terry Ryan isn't putting pressure on Buxton and Sano, it is the fans who are, plus the players you mentioned had a fare amount of pressure, especially Bryce.

6-There is no such thing as the "Twins Way" so you can't say that the "Twins Way" is losing ballgames.

[Jerr]

 

Lol. 2 games in.  2 flippin' games.  Amazing.

BUT, 21 flippin' runs to no flippin' runs

[jimmer]

What's the address of Target Field?  Why did they call it that?

[Buford_T_Justice]

Thanks to all for the posts. Apathy is the worst quality a fan base can exhibit, and we obviously don't have that problem.

 

Nolasco can probably be had for a couple of Papa John's coupons if we pay 95% of his remaining salary, but is anyone else wondering if Pelfrey can win 5 or 6 games in half a season to get some value in a trade when Santana returns?

[SwainZag]

 

BUT, 21 flippin' runs to no flippin' runs

 

Actually 15 to 0 but who's counting