Pelfry open to trade

[Mill1634]

 

No way. All a six man rotation does is take innings from your best starter and give them to your worst. Do you want some of Hughes' innings going to Pelfrey?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I should have said rotated starts. So the first week Milone starts, and the second week pelfrey starts. This could be a solution, without taking away innings from Hughes or Santana. 

[tobi0040]

Sorry to burst his bubble. But if he had any trade value whatsoever, he would have been traded already.

 

Unfortunately, the rest of the league also accepts that the last two years did in fact happen and he didnt have a great career prior to that.

 

If the twins told him If his ERA was lower after three short starts he gets the job, then he should be upset. But open competition to me does not say we are writing off the past, projection, things like strikeouts and competition.

 

He should keep quiet and laugh all the way to the bank. The joke is on the twins. I would also embrace the pen if I was him. It is his only shot of sticking in the league and making another 10 million dollars.

[maxisagod]

It's okay to be upset. If he feels he's healthy and may only get one more shot at a contract the difference between a mediocre starter and a mediocre reliever is about what? 4 million on a one year deal. I could think a a lot things I could do with a extra 4 million. Sure he could turn in a dominate reliever and have a long career after that. I hope that's the case, but this is the right move for the Twins. 

[DaveW]

I think Pelfrey could be a great 7th inning guy for us this year.

[Kwak]

I don't have a problem with Pelfrey's response. He's disappointed--and should be! I don't think fans have a right to expect every statement from players should be along the line "it's soo wonderful here in Minnesota, and anything management does is best--and I'm hap-hap-happy with them...".

Do I believe this "competition" for 5th starter was slanted (if not outghtly rigged?)--Yes I do! This is the Twins! Queue up the "bigger picture" comment. Examine the other player decisions--heavily skewed to favor older players--very much in-line with previous Twins' policy and their implied statement of "WIN NOW".

So, we wait--until about 6 weeks into the season--and see the results. Then the interesting part...

[jay]

I don't have a problem with Pelfrey's response. He's disappointed--and should be! I don't think fans have a right to expect every statement from players should be along the line "it's soo wonderful here in Minnesota, and anything management does is best--and I'm hap-hap-happy with them...".

Do I believe this "competition" for 5th starter was slanted (if not outghtly rigged?)--Yes I do! This is the Twins! Queue up the "bigger picture" comment. Examine the other player decisions--heavily skewed to favor older players--very much in-line with previous Twins' policy and their implied statement of "WIN NOW".

So, we wait--until about 6 weeks into the season--and see the results. Then the interesting part...

You do realize that you just went on a long rant about the Twins conspiring to rig the 5th starter competition and favor the older player, but that is exactly what they didn't do by sending Pelfrey to the pen... right?

[Seth Stohs]

 

Still a great guy in the clubhouse, I bet.

 

No question about this. He's about as classy as it gets. And I never mind when a player is honest when asked questions. I'd rather he be truthful than just say nothing.

 

I think Pelfrey's disappointment is that he was told during the offseason and before spring training that itw ould truly be an open competition for the 5th starter job. If it truly was an open competition, he probably earned the job.

 

Of course, like many here, I don't believe in having spring training performance be the determining factor in roster decisions, so I'm good with this. Milone was the favorite all along, and he pitched fairly well too. 

 

As for the trade, I have no problem with him requesting it. I'd have no problem with the Twins trading him, and I would have no problem with them keeping him and seeing how the bullpen job treats him. I think he can be good.

[Shane Wahl]

I don't think Pelfrey is being smart about his long-term big league status. He could develop into a good MR or even setup man. That is the way for him to get contracts north of $2 million per year going forward. As a bad starter? Minor league contracts . . . 

[twinscowboysbulls]

I hope not. A handful of spring innings has no value for projection.

Woo hoo! ST stats! Look at his numbers the last two seasons.

 

He is a crybaby. He even took it to this point... "Well in the past, my stuff has played down now up in the pen." Goodness me... Get a clue Pelf.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

I think Pelfrey's disappointment is that he was told during the offseason and before spring training that itw ould truly be an open competition for the 5th starter job. If it truly was an open competition, he probably earned the job.

 

 

Did he?  I crunched few numbers.  Not including Stauffer.  All 3 faced pretty much equal competition (OppQual) so that is pretty comparable.   Cannot calculate xFIP, cFIP or SIERA (no ball in play data) so I calculated PE, which correlates pretty well with xFIP and SIERA (better than FIP or ERA.)   So depending how you are counting, it is arguable that he won, but it is not arguable that Milone did not win that competition and finished 3.  Any. Way. You. Count.

 

[Kwak]

 

You do realize that you just went on a long rant about the Twins conspiring to rig the 5th starter competition and favor the older player, but that is exactly what they didn't do by sending Pelfrey to the pen... right?

As opposed to demoting/releasing Pelfrey and using a trained and youthful relief pitcher in the bullpen?

[GMinTraining]

All moves are based on future moves.  This makes sense from a trade value.  If you are going to find value in Pelfry - Now is the time while he had a nice camp.  Not after he possibly goes back to last years numbers.

 

May is still the future #4 or #5 and can not be hurt by fine tuning a little more before coming up to MLB level in June.

 

Milone is a veteran who can hold the fort down to start the season until Meyer and / or May make their way up.  Milone then can go to the bullpen and be a key component there for the rest of season.

 

Smart moves by the Twins all away around.  I'm OK with Pelfry being upset too.  Any true competitor should be.  Win win for everyone when the dust finally settles.  Wait and watch

[scottz]

 

First, I'd be curious to hear Pelfrey's opinion of "outpitched". If it's that he had a better ERA in his 13 innings, the conversation is over.

Second, IMO, he would need to demonstrably outpitch the other guys to get the job out of camp. The guy over 30 with just 1 year of team control should be the last worry. Even if he wasn't outpitched and was just... evenly pitched, someone has to be given the job and I see no guarantee or reason why that should be him over the other guys.

I agree, but I think part of the problem (at least at how it seems to be perceived by Pelfrey and probably by many fans) is that he doesn't think he was outpitched. I can't argue with him. What were the criteria if it were an open competition, as Pelfrey was told? Were the Twins relying on measurable data like Thrylos posted? Other measurable data? Subjective data? I doubt we will ever know, but obviously Pelfrey and the Twins disagree on the outcome of the competition. Oh well. That happens.

 

In any case, I hope our minor league big boy pitching prospects tear it up, and I hope Milone either is absolutely brilliant or the Twins win every one of his games 10-9. I hope Pelfrey gets answers if he has asked questions to management and pitches well in the bullpen. I like hope.

[jorgenswest]

There is no game data to collect in spring that would help project which pitcher will perform better. It has to be based on the eyes of the personnel and nothing else. Better numbers in a small spring sample do not mean a pitcher is throwing better.

 

The Twins staff believes that Milone gives the Twins a better chance to win than Pelfrey. They need to start Milone. Let's hope they are right.

[jimmer]

Milone needs a quality defense to make his fringe talent look good.  He doesn't have that.

[Platoon]

Crunching numbers aside, the Twins made it clear that the 5th spot was an open competition. They made that point publicly right up until the bitter end. And there has been nothing said or hinted that the players were told something else. Frankly I would have moved Pelf to the pen right away. But they did not. And they did not take the best of the bunch north as the 5th guy either. Maybe Milone will pitch well enough to be traded, and Pelfrey will be a success in the pen, and May and Meyer will marinate some more in Rochester. But if you are going to sell these guys on a straight competition, then don't expect smiley faces when you change the rules at the end of the game!

[jay]

Crunching numbers aside, the Twins made it clear that the 5th spot was an open competition.

That's the point...

 

You really don't have any proof that Pelfrey "won" this competition and had the rules changed on him. What you have is a salty vet that wanted his way.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I have no problem with him being disappointed.  I think anyone would be in his shoes, and I'd be worried if he wasn't.  Also of note, he said he's "open to a trade".  That's a far cry from demanding a trade.  He wants to start, I get that.  The question at hand will be whether TR can get comparable value for his 5M salary.  If not, welcome to the pen.  He could be a very good reliever and potentially earn a lot more doing that than starting.

[Boom Boom]

Every year there's an "open competition" in spring training, and almost invariably the roster decisions show that there really wasn't.

[jay]

Every year there's an "open competition" in spring training, and almost invariably the roster decisions show that there really wasn't.

Possibly true.

 

And also not nearly unique to the hometown club.

[nicksaviking]

Possibly true.

And also not nearly unique to the hometown club.

I'd say that other clubs who have ulterior motives, like trying to win the division, get a pass.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

No question about this. He's about as classy as it gets. And I never mind when a player is honest when asked questions. I'd rather he be truthful than just say nothing.

 

I think Pelfrey's disappointment is that he was told during the offseason and before spring training that itw ould truly be an open competition for the 5th starter job. If it truly was an open competition, he probably earned the job.

 

Of course, like many here, I don't believe in having spring training performance be the determining factor in roster decisions, so I'm good with this. Milone was the favorite all along, and he pitched fairly well too. 

 

As for the trade, I have no problem with him requesting it. I'd have no problem with the Twins trading him, and I would have no problem with them keeping him and seeing how the bullpen job treats him. I think he can be good.

 

You see these guys up close so I take it at your word that Pelfrey is a classy guy. I've said before, one of the best things about this site is that there are writers who remain positive and interpret things in the best possible light. That said, I wouldn't call Pelfrey's comments classy, though not really out of line, either. By now he probably regrets making them the way he did. I'm sure he's disappointed but I also think he is in the dark about his abilities. He's had the entire offseason to come to grips with a potential demotion, if that's what he wants to call it. Baseball players make obscene amounts of money to play baseball, and in return, fans like me will criticize and take pot shots. Minnesota has pretty good fans overall. If Pelfrey pitches well out of the bullpen all of us will be back on his side again and want him in the game.

[Boom Boom]

Possibly true.

 

And also not nearly unique to the hometown club.

Correct.

 

I guess my point is that a veteran guy like Pelfrey should know that an open competition is never as open as it sounds in this business.

[Mike Sixel]

He hasn't been Good for years. He should reassess his future....

[h2oface]

 

No question about this. He's about as classy as it gets. And I never mind when a player is honest when asked questions. I'd rather he be truthful than just say nothing.

Lying about your health and costing your team losses, to me, is the antithesis of classy. I find it very selfish and all about me and not about team. Both Pelfrey and Nolasco admitted that is what they did, albeit for the team, which also lends itself to lying to oneself. Perhaps being honest now in regard to his disappointment of being "penned" is about "me" too? 

 

This could be the best thing that ever happened to Pelfrey. He has a chance to extend his career. For me, it is hard to forget the last two seasons. On the trading block, I doubt other teams will forget either.

[tobi0040]

I don't understand the "we should play him and build up his trade value". I see no realistic circumstance where we get anything other than a million or two shaved off the payroll if everything broke our way. . My guess is terry has been all ears for two years on the trade market and had found any interest.

[jimmer]

 

. My guess is terry has been all ears for two years on the trade market and had found any interest.

To avoid being all ears during that whole time frame he could have just not re-signed him to begin with. One of the most baffling decisions to extend a player in recent memory to go along with the Doumit one and likely the Suzuki one.

[Mike Sixel]

Ryan looks like a genius for that 2 year deal.

[GP830]

I can't help but feel like the Twins have had plans to trade either Milone or Pelf depending on what they saw this spring.

 

I'm betting that posturing Milone as a starter, as well as his middle of the road numbers (and left handedness) will bring him some attention on the trade market. They're banking on there being interest, and moving Pelfrey into the rotation as soon as Milone has been moved. Seems like a solid strategic marketing/sales move on the Twins' part. 

 

Regardless, Pelfrey will pitch in the rotation at some point this year if he continues to perform. If his velocity does in fact increase with a decreased work load, than we could have a pretty solid RH, and LH option at the back of the pen. :-)

 

 

[jimmer]

The best Beane could get for Milone last year was Fuld.  Then he predictably stunk up the joint with us.  Not sure he can be traded unless he just dominates (which he doesn;t have the talent to do) because it really hasn't been that long since Fuld was the trade value for Milone and  GM isn't going to be fooled by a couple outings.

 

As far as Pelfrey goes, 'continues to perform'?  He's been bad for a few years now, nobody is going to want him if he continues to perform how he's been performing. 

 

BTW, how much time in the majors does a guy have to be to be considered a veteran?  Milone hasn't even reached arbitration yet.  He hasn't reached 100 starts yet.  Is he a veteran?