Miller (Star Tribune): Molitor: 12 pitchers; true designated hitter

[JB_Iowa]

Phil Miller of the Strib has an article up on Molitor's current line-up plans.

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/294946091.html?page=1&c=y

 

Plans to start with 12 pitchers, 13 position players.  Maybe with Santana and if Nolasco bounces back, that can last longer than mid-May.

 

Also plans to designate a semi-permanent DH -- probably Vargas.

 

But this was whatI found most interesting:

 

And the oft-floated notion of rotation candidates Mike Pelfrey or Alex Meyer moving to the bullpen? Probably not going to happen, Molitor said.

 

“It would be tough because it would be so new. Mike traditionally has been a guy that takes some time to get ready, and it’d be a big transition for him to get up and throw 12 pitches and come into the ballgame. Alex is a very routine guy, and for a young kid, you work him in as a starter in camp and all of a sudden you go, ‘OK let’s give him a couple innings out of the pen here and then throw him into a major league game.’ It’s hard to see how that could happen in the short-term,” Molitor said. “We’re going to keep them in that starter’s role for now.”

 

 

 

Given the option situation doesn't this almost guarantee the 5th starter spot to Pelfrey unless he really stinks it up???? 

[Mike Sixel]

Well, that part bums me out.

[maxisagod]

...

Given the option situation doesn't this almost guarantee the 5th starter spot to Pelfrey unless he really stinks it up???? 

 

I read it as, if Pelrey doesn't win the 5th starter role, he's traded or released. 

[Shane Wahl]

Please, please May or even Milone win this spot, then. I cannot believe how Pelfrey is even an option for the rotation. He should have been geared up for competition in the bullpen if he can't make the adjustment in March/April at all. Aside from any other issue, one would think that it would be smart career-wise for Pelfrey to build his potential as a setup up man. He could do that in 2015 as a middle reliever and get another contract somewhere for 3+ million as a setup man. Once in that position, an injury might mean getting a part-time closer gig. From there, who knows? Right now trying to make a rotation when it doesn't look good at all and the reality is that you might have to actually start in AAA again? Yikes. That can lead to a minor league contract in 2016 and some real uncertainty in general going forward.

[mikelink45]

The only reason to start Pelfrey is to trade him.  But the loss of development for Meyer and May makes that a costly strategy.

[Otto von Ballpark]

“It would be tough because it would be so new. Mike traditionally has been a guy that takes some time to get ready, and it’d be a big transition for him to get up and throw 12 pitches and come into the ballgame. Alex is a very routine guy, and for a young kid, you work him in as a starter in camp and all of a sudden you go, ‘OK let’s give him a couple innings out of the pen here and then throw him into a major league game.’ It’s hard to see how that could happen in the short-term,” Molitor said. “We’re going to keep them in that starter’s role for now.”

Isn't this kind of transition exactly what spring training can safely be used for?

 

What would be worse is to keep them in the starter's role all spring, THEN try to suddenly change their role when the season starts.  (Or as JB alludes to, award the spots based on contract status / options rather than performance.)

 

Liriano hadn't pitched out of the pen his entire pro career (well, 1 appearance in rookie league) before the Twins took him north in 2006.  But maybe he wasn't "a routine guy" or a "a guy that takes some time to get ready".

 

Hopefully Molitor's "for now" qualifier means at the present moment and the first week or two of camp. But after that, we don't need five 5th starter candidates hanging around in late March.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I seem to recall Meyer going on the record as endorsing relief work, if it gets him into MLB -- or am I misremembering?  Seems logical, anyway.

 

And Pelfrey might be open to it too, if the alternative is to get cut from one of the worst staffs in the league.

[Halsey Hall]

So the writer mentions Pinto decision on his defense when I thought TR said it depended on his offense.  Different opinions all over the place for so many guys. 

[jimmer]

I wonder how many rookies, especially 25 year olds, care if they go to relief or the rotation to start their MLB career as long as it starts.

[jimmer]

So the writer mentions Pinto decision on his defense when I thought TR said it depended on his offense.  Different opinions all over the place for so many guys. 

gets harder and harder to filter through the BS.  I guess it makes no sense just to make it easy and tell the truth so it's easy to remember what was said from interview to interview.

[Boom Boom]

Good to hear he's planning on only two catchers.

 

I've said it before about Pelf- he's got the inside track on the last rotation spot.

[iTwins]

I'd take the Pelfrey perspective to mean that if he's not good enough to be the 5th starter, he's gone. (Which is too bad, because I think he could be a good reliever).

 

So far, Molitor doesn't strike me as a manager who will keep someone around because of who they were. If Pelfrey isn't the 5th best starter, he's not going to cram him into the role, just because he "doesn't work" as a reliever.

[big dog]

I wonder how many rookies, especially 25 year olds, care if they go to relief or the rotation to start their MLB career as long as it starts.

"I'm really excited to be here!  I'll do whatever the team wants- carry the bags, rake the baselines.  Just glad to be in the majors.  I want to help the team, and I'll do whatever it takes to stay here."

[tobi0040]

If Pelfrey is the 5th starter, it is business as usual.  

 

The name and number of the manager has changed, but the GM is still calling the shots and has not deviated from the typical April to May field a horrible veteran team strategy.  Then adjust to the best players in June.

 

Pelfrey = Livan, Ortiz, Bautista, Pontoon, Castro, Bartett circa 2014, etc.

[SweetOne69]

If Pelfrey is the 5th starter, it is business as usual.  

 

The name and number of the manager has changed, but the GM is still calling the shots and has not deviated from the typical April to May field a horrible veteran team strategy.  Then adjust to the best players in June.

 

Pelfrey = Livan, Ortiz, Bautista, Castro, etc.

 

Not to nitpick, but the GM makes the personnel decisions for all 30 teams, not just the Twins.  Some teams may be more willing to dump a player regardless of the sunk cost, but the Twins' generally aren't one of them.

 

All Molitor can do is go to Ryan and say these are the 25 guys that I want to take north, Ryan has always had final say.

[tobi0040]

I'd take the Pelfrey perspective to mean that if he's not good enough to be the 5th starter, he's gone. (Which is too bad, because I think he could be a good reliever).

 

So far, Molitor doesn't strike me as a manager who will keep someone around because of who they were. If Pelfrey isn't the 5th best starter, he's not going to cram him into the role, just because he "doesn't work" as a reliever.

 

 I guess the bolded part begs the question, what would Pelfrey have to do in the 12 spring innings he will get (against minor leagers) that would allow the Twins to conclude he wins the job?

 

He could go scoreless and I could care less.

[DJL44]

About getting ready - most starters have 4 pitches they need. If Pelfrey is in the bullpen he'll probably pare down the repertoire and should be able to get ready faster.

[nicksaviking]

Not to nitpick, but the GM makes the personnel decisions for all 30 teams, not just the Twins.  Some teams may be more willing to dump a player regardless of the sunk cost, but the Twins' generally aren't one of them.

 

All Molitor can do is go to Ryan and say these are the 25 guys that I want to take north, Ryan has always had final say.

 

Molitor could also tell Pelfrey to go to the pen.  Ryan can make roster decisions, but Molitor ultimately decides when and where we'll see them.

 

Judging by how long Pelfrey takes between pitches, perhaps Molitor has a point about his warm up time.  Still, I'd give the pen a shot for him as his repertoir and velocity could make him a quality releiver.  He does nothing for me as an AL starter.

[tobi0040]

Molitor could also tell Pelfrey to go to the pen.  Ryan can make roster decisions, but Molitor ultimately decides when and where we'll see them.

 

Judging by how long Pelfrey takes between pitches, perhaps Molitor has a point about his warm up time.  Still, I'd give the pen a shot for him as his repertoir and velocity could make him a quality releiver.  He does nothing for me as an AL starter.

 

My hope is that Molitor had a few pre-conditions about taking this job, and veto rights for Pelfrey was one of them.

[jay]

I took it to mean that Pelfrey isn't guaranteed a roster spot.  Given his performance and injury issues, I'd call that a good thing.

 

Some teams may be more willing to dump a player regardless of the sunk cost, but the Twins' generally aren't one of them.

 

Not sure how that's true.  The Twins have, in fact, released guys with contracts in his range on multiple occasions.  Granted, it hasn't really been done in spring training, but it's usually applied to guys on one-year deals instead of the second year of a two-year deal.

 

What happens if the Twins try to send Pelfrey to Rochester?   Waivers?  He gets the option to become a free agent?

[Captain Nifty]

I always pictured Meyer in a rookie season Santana'ish role to start the spring and eventually transitioning to starting if/when there's an injury or performance issue in the rotation. Given his tender shoulder issues the past two seasons it's probably best not to mess with him like that though. I'm ok with him not coming north right away in the spring as long as he truly doesn't earn a spot in the rotation. I'm not ok with giving Pelfrey or Milone a spot in the rotation because veteran presence BS. Somehow given May and Meyer's age and performance over the past year I have faith the Twins won't yank them around like that. 

[SweetOne69]

Molitor could also tell Pelfrey to go to the pen.  Ryan can make roster decisions, but Molitor ultimately decides when and where we'll see them.

 

Judging by how long Pelfrey takes between pitches, perhaps Molitor has a point about his warm up time.  Still, I'd give the pen a shot for him as his repertoir and velocity could make him a quality releiver.  He does nothing for me as an AL starter.

 

I agree 100%.  I also agree with what others have said regarding having Pelfrey pitch out of the pen in ST, to see how long it takes him to get loose.

[SweetOne69]

I took it to mean that Pelfrey isn't guaranteed a roster spot.  Given his performance and injury issues, I'd call that a good thing.

 

 

Not sure how that's true.  The Twins have, in fact, released guys with contracts in his range on multiple occasions.  Granted, it hasn't really been done in spring training, but it's usually applied to guys on one-year deals instead of the second year of a two-year deal.

 

What happens if the Twins try to send Pelfrey to Rochester?   Waivers?  He gets the option to become a free agent?

 

I agree that since Pelfrey is in the last year of his contract, being released is a possibility.  But I think that they will try to make a go of it before that happens.

[twinscowboysbulls]

Molitor could also tell Pelfrey to go to the pen.  Ryan can make roster decisions, but Molitor ultimately decides when and where we'll see them.

 

Judging by how long Pelfrey takes between pitches, perhaps Molitor has a point about his warm up time.  Still, I'd give the pen a shot for him as his repertoir and velocity could make him a quality releiver.  He does nothing for me as an AL starter.

 

Aren't we forgetting about how fast he came back from that TJ Surgery though? Or that he is in his 5th year back and that is usually the year where we see dividends!

[Otto von Ballpark]

I took it to mean that Pelfrey isn't guaranteed a roster spot.  Given his performance and injury issues, I'd call that a good thing.

 

 

Not sure how that's true.  The Twins have, in fact, released guys with contracts in his range on multiple occasions.  Granted, it hasn't really been done in spring training, but it's usually applied to guys on one-year deals instead of the second year of a two-year deal.

 

What happens if the Twins try to send Pelfrey to Rochester?   Waivers?  He gets the option to become a free agent?

Since he has over 5 years MLB service time, Pelfrey can reject any minor league assignment.  I don't know if that rejection technically makes him a free agent, or the rejection means we have to simply release him, but either way the result is the same: he would have the freedom to sign elsewhere, and we would owe him his full contract (less the league minimum if another team picked him up).

 

There might be waivers involved somewhere as a formality, but they don't really matter for a veteran of 5+ years service.  (If he had less service time than that, and cleared waivers, he could be outrighted once off the 40-man for the season without his consent, like Parmelee last spring.)

[Halsey Hall]

If Pelfrey is the 5th starter, it is business as usual.  

 

The name and number of the manager has changed, but the GM is still calling the shots and has not deviated from the typical April to May field a horrible veteran team strategy.  Then adjust to the best players in June.

 

Pelfrey = Livan, Ortiz, Bautista, Pontoon, Castro, Bartett circa 2014, etc.

That's not near true.  There are 24 other names on that 25 man roster.  Things have changed.  Besides Pelfrey, if he's the fifth starter, of the 24 names would you eliminate in order not to field a horrible veteran team? 

[Otto von Ballpark]

The Twins have, in fact, released guys with contracts in his range on multiple occasions.  Granted, it hasn't really been done in spring training, but it's usually applied to guys on one-year deals instead of the second year of a two-year deal.

I don't know if "multiple occasions" is really true here.  They did it with Jason Marquis ($3 mil salary) at the end of May 2012 -- that's about the earliest and most expensive Twins release ever, that I can recall.  Kubel in mid-June last year for $2 mil is probably the second most expensive.  After that?  Sidney Ponson made $1 mil and was released mid-May 2007.

 

Nick Blackburn survived his full contract (although he was out righted to AAA for the final season, as he had less than 5 years service).  Even Nishioka was kept around long enough that he simply waived his salary and buyout in exchange for his release.

 

More commonly, they've traded guys (or surrendered them on waivers) a month or two before their deals expired: Ramon Ortiz, Livan Hernandez, Correia, Willingham, etc.

 

Cutting Pelfrey this spring would easily be the most aggressive/expensive veteran release the Twins have ever done.

 

EDIT: Mike Lamb was actually the earliest, September 2008 when his contract lasted through 2009.  Wound up eating roughly $3 mil in salary?

 

More examples: Juan Rincon mid-to-late June 2008 ($2.5 mil).  Craig Monroe, August 2008 ($3.8 mil).  (Boy, those 2008 Twins made some bad investments!)   Luis Ayala, July 2009 ($1.3 mil).

 

I also remember Bob Kipper and his $1 mil salary getting released at the trade deadline 1992 and thinking it was a big deal too!

[tobi0040]

I took it to mean that Pelfrey isn't guaranteed a roster spot.  Given his performance and injury issues, I'd call that a good thing.

 

 

Not sure how that's true.  The Twins have, in fact, released guys with contracts in his range on multiple occasions.  Granted, it hasn't really been done in spring training, but it's usually applied to guys on one-year deals instead of the second year of a two-year deal.

 

What happens if the Twins try to send Pelfrey to Rochester?   Waivers?  He gets the option to become a free agent?

 

I think it is fair to say guys owed money have been given a longer leash.  Blackburn comes to mind.  Rarely do you see a guy get 160 IP at a 5.50 ERA, or 98 IP at an ERA above 7.   And nothing we have seen over the last two years suggests Pelfrey should be a consideration for the #5 spot.  Absolutely nothing.

[Thegrin]

Having Pelfrey as a starter could be a plus for the Twins. If he throws like the pre-injury Pelfrey, then the Twins have a solid #3 starter. He is also said to be a positive in the Clubhouse.

I remember that Nolasco was not a positive clubhouse guy.

Perhaps they will trade Nolasco back to the National League and insert Pelfrey into Nolasco's spot in the rotation.

However

After the Liriano & Worely results,  I think GMs will sit back and wait and Ryan will end up giving Pelfrey and/or Nolasco away.

[DocBauer]

I don't think Pelfrey is a given on anything just because he is owed money and has had a mediocre career thus far.

 

IF he pitches well, doesn't guarantee anything as he could be traded to a team desperate for help. Doubtful right now, but Nolasco could be traded.

 

If moved to the pen, I'm willing to bet his "warm up" would adapt, just as the mental part and approach part would adapt. And lastly, depending on his exact role, say an 8th inning guy, couldn't he begin his warm up a little early? Just because he'd be a reliever doesn't necessarily mean he has to be a 12 pitch and ready to go type.