Winter Meeting Discussions: Improving the Twins

[shs_59]

1)  The Washington Nationals Outfield Situation:    Harper, Span, Werth (mega deal in-tact) , Taylor , Souza is their future OF and a very good one with those 5 names.  Simply put, the Nats have an over-abundance of hitters.  Someone will be the first team to jump on a trade with them in the off-season and that team could be the Twins.

 

This leaves no room for LF'er Ryan Zimmerman

 

Trade Proposed:  AA- OF , Travis Harrison, UTL Eduardo Nunez, RP Brian Duensing, AAA-SP Sean Gilmartin.

 

for

 

OF/3B Ryan Zimmerman , and P Blake Treinen.    (Treinen is a south dakota state alum)

 

 

2) The Houston Astros Starting Pitcher Situation:  They're willingness or dare i say eagerness to deal arms past the 'on the cusp' phase is their guilty pleasure.    Cosart, Norris, Lyles, Feldman ? All gone or will be gone.

Their future?  Dallas Kuchel, Mike Foltynewicz, Nick Tropeano, Brett Oberholtzer, Mark Appel, & waaait for it Sam Deduno....that may leave Collin "ace" McCugh open for trade.

 

Trade Proposed:  AA-SP Jason Wheeler, A+ OF - A.B. Walker , RP Jared Burton.

 

for

 

SP Collin McCugh   (intanstly becomes our #2 or #3 starter behind Hughes)

 

3) The Band is getting back together theory......If no trade is available for a LF'er like a Ryan Zimmerman  THEN 1 of Torri Hunter or Michael Cuddyer should be considered on a 1-2 yr deal to play RF  (I propose moving Arcia to LF in this scenerio)   Cuddyer might be had for 2 years and 14 million (YES 7 Mill a year)

other names: JJ Hardy, Frankie Liriano and Garret Jones are available.

 

4) Stay away from big priced FA's  ...............      Don't be a deluded Twins fan; James Shields, Jon Lester , and Max Scherzer are not going to get an offer from the twins this off-season.   Ervin Santana, Jake Peavy, and others may be considered but i'd rather not touch Peavy nor Santana. I'd be all for actually signing a potential late inning reliever to a 2 yr. deal someone like a Jamey Wright.   on the fairly cheap.

 

5) Stick with the International Interest theme..............2 Semi- big names should be available this offseason including: -OF'er  Yasmani Tomas , already ranked #7 on MLB traderumors top FA's this off-season   &

-SP Kenta Maeda a youthful Asian pitcher with a pretty big ceiling.......  To be in the bidding for one of these 2 is one thing...to actually win them. Is probably an entirely different story..... But those are just the 2 Big names......Try to find that Hishashi Iwakuma the diamond in the rough..... with better money attached in the contract.

[gunnarthor]

None of those trades are remotely fair to the Nats or Astros. 

[shs_59]

I 'm not saying those are 100% the names in place.... but could be a start to the trade being discussed.

 

If you're the Nats wouldn't you LOVE LOVE to get RID of one of the Zimmerman or Werth Contracts?

 

They without- a doubt could use Nunez as a backup, and Duensing relliever from the left side, they get a semi good prospect in Harrison and maybe a bigger name than Gilmartin and Parmelee... IDK May?

 

And the Astros LOVE power they love Chris Carter Types A.B. Walkers Power will undoubtedly have them salivating....that is Luhnow's and Goldsteins MO.

 

Im not saying that trade is perfect either but if ANYONE is interested in Walker as a prospect it'd be the Astros.

 

Do you have anything else more to add Gunarther?

[shs_59]

I fantasize about pitchers such as:

 

Blake Treinen (stud-nobody wanted), Collin McCugh (stud-nobody wanted), Jacob DeGrom, Kyle Hendricks, Tanner Roark, Edinson Volquez..   Someone Like Alex Cobb would be a once in a decade type of developmental pitcher for us. Almost a pure miracle.

 

I'd give up Hughes, Gibson, May, Nolasco, Berrios, Millone + others to have names like that today. but, if our condifedence in developing pitchers and finding them with great scouting wasn't sooo shaken in recent years.....You could of had these guys on the cheap. (all except Cobb)

 

My point is either the Twins need to be damned better about developing pitchers, and scouting them league-wide....or be more creative in finding ways to acquire guys that have already  appeared to turn a corner.

[lightfoot789]

Dude, according to your prospect list - Adam Brett Walker is not even on your Top 20 list below.  Why would you think anyone might want him.  He's not even worthy on your list. 

 

For the record - He and Berrios are the only two prospects listed on your list who have been Mid Season and Post Sesaon All Stars for  each of the past two seasons.  He also has played more games than anyone on this list as well, over the last two seasons.  Not bad for a Top 30? bargaining chip . 

 

Top Twins prospects ? 1.Byron Buxton (OF-A+)
2.Miguel Sano (3B-AA) 3.Alex Meyer (SP-AAA) 4. Kohl Stewart (SP-A) 5. J.O. Berrios (P-AA) 6.Nick Gordon (SS-RK)  7. *Josmil Pinto (C-AAA) 8.Jorge Polanco (2B-AA)  9. L. Thorpe (SP-A) 10. *Trevor May (SP-AAA) 11.Kennys Vargas (1B-AAA) 12.Travis Harrison (OF-A+) 13.Eddie Rosario (2B-AA) 14. Max Kepler (OF-A+) 15.Nick Burdi (RP-A)  Just Missed P Tyler Duffey, SS Aderlin Mejia, P Stephen Gonsalves, C Stuart Turner.

[bird]

I fantasize about pitchers such as:

 

Blake Treinen (stud-nobody wanted), Collin McCugh (stud-nobody wanted), Jacob DeGrom, Kyle Hendricks, Tanner Roark, Edinson Volquez..   Someone Like Alex Cobb would be a once in a decade type of developmental pitcher for us. Almost a pure miracle.

 

I'd give up Hughes, Gibson, May, Nolasco, Berrios, Millone + others to have names like that today. but, if our condifedence in developing pitchers and finding them with great scouting wasn't sooo shaken in recent years.....You could of had these guys on the cheap. (all except Cobb)

 

My point is either the Twins need to be damned better about developing pitchers, and scouting them league-wide....or be more creative in finding ways to acquire guys that have already  appeared to turn a corner.

I'm having a disconnect on your point. Are we bad at it? Or do we need to get even better in your view? Thinking first of who the Twins have scouted and acquired recently: Hughes, Mays, Fien, Thielbar, Pressly, Olives, Meyer, Burton, Deduno, Nolasco...not a terrible track record.

 

Of the top 40 prospects in all of baseball, all prospects from all 30 teams, the Twins have 3 PITCHERS among them (and 2 position players too). No one's confidence should be so shaken, unless you're a Tigers fan or something. SO while the pitchers you fantasize about are nice, Berrios, Meyer, Stewart, Thorpe, and May are hardly chopped liver.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I doubt any of those trades would happen. Also, isn't Burton a FA this offseason?

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Burton has a team option for 3.6MM or a 200k buyout - So, hopefully yes, he should be a free agent this offseason.

[pierre75275]

The Nats trading Zimmerman or Werth would be like the Twins trading Puckett or Hrbek after 91. Those guys are the heart an soul of the team. not.gonna.happen. they might trade a outfielder they do have a glut but it wont be those two. Not to mention both are on huge contracts. Why would the TWINS take that cost when they could just pick one up in the off season without giving up prospects

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Zimmerman might be traded since he can't really play 3rd base anymore, and he's a left fielder in the same way that Nelson Cruz or Josh Willingham is a left fielder - except he's only been playing there this year.

He probably can still hit for years to come, but he's more likely a DH for the long term.

[Mike Sixel]

The Twins probably don't need another OF that can't field/DH type.......

[gmarais66]

I commonly see people commenting about trading players at their highest value, which in many cases, I don't agree with, because trading that player would leave a hole in the lineup that would be tough to fill. However, I think this would be an excellent time to trade Plouffe. He's definitely at a peak value right now, and the Twins  have someone to fill his place in the lineup. I'm not sure what they could get for him, but I think it's worth a try.

[old nurse]

No trade scenarios are complete without including a proposal for Swarzak

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

No trade scenarios are complete without including a proposal for Swarzak

 

Swarzak to the Pirates for Tabata- he becomes a 15 game winner. "He should have been starting this whole time, we watched the tape and found he was wearing the wrong size hat." -- Pirates pitching coach

[Trevor0333]

Zimmerman's star has fallen a bit but hes a key cog/leader in that clubhouse & team that finally made the playoffs. Maybe you could get Werth for that but meh. While we're throwing out hypotheticals & contend next year...

 

Escobar/Sano/Hicks/Rosario/Meyer/Nolasco (for offsetting salary)

 

for

 

Tulowitzki/Gonzalez/Chacin/De la Rosa

[Linus]

Why do people think we can kick our garbage to the curb and have it magically replaced with something of value?  Is it that we have a generation of people commenting here that have played MLB video games their whole lives and think the trade market actually works the same way?

[Rosterman]

Nats got Florimon, they don't need Nunez.

 

I could see resigning Cuddyer (overpaying). Hunter still has an option, I believe with Detroit. No way is Liriano coming here, especially if Boston calls.

 

I would love to see the Twins get Lester, but we have to realistic look that a player, no matter the money, has to see a reason for coming here, shortterm or longterm. Nothing looks that great today.

 

And other teams do have better garbage than we do for any of he proposed trades.

[stringer bell]

If we are discussing free agents, I have doubts that any of the top pitchers will either be courted by the Twins and if they were, that the Twins would be high on their list. I think that a lottery ticket on someone who has had success recently, not unlike the signing of Hughes this year.

 

The Twins don't have a lot of players who would be considered prime trade candidates. Most of the bottom of the 40-man has little value. I suppose Plouffe has value and somebody like Pinto would be enticing for a team looking for a young catcher with offensive upside.

[Major League Ready]

Anyone know about Yasmani Tomas in terms of defense?  Being just 24 he could fit right in with our young core and be a part of building a team that could contend for several years.  He is built a bit like a linebacker so I wonder about his mobility.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I haven't seen any video, but the things I've read are that Tomas has a better than average arm, but a raw glove. He's not slow footed, but Rusney Castillo is supposed to be faster.  Possibly similar to Cespedes, however, Tomas is younger which means (to me, anyway) that his defense is less developed than the other recent Cuban stars.

[Thrylos]

The Twins have more of a starting pitching situation than the Astros at this point.

 

I think that the Twins first off-season priority should be to clean house at the Front Office and Dugout levels and then take it from there.  My opinion is that they should go young.   Also I really do not care about signing had beens like Cuddyer and Hunter.  That would be Kubel and Bartlett and Mattie 2.0.  I'd rather see kids at the OF and players like Arcia will not improve unless they play...

 

Agree about staying away from FAs.

Bigger fish to fry than corner OF and SP positions.

[Mike Sixel]

Twins aren't paying more than $100MM for a cuban.......let's all just give up on this now.

[Brandon]

The Twins have more of a starting pitching situation than the Astros at this point.

 

I think that the Twins first off-season priority should be to clean house at the Front Office and Dugout levels and then take it from there.  My opinion is that they should go young.   Also I really do not care about signing had beens like Cuddyer and Hunter.  That would be Kubel and Bartlett and Mattie 2.0.  I'd rather see kids at the OF and players like Arcia will not improve unless they play...

 

Agree about staying away from FAs.

Bigger fish to fry than corner OF and SP positions.

 

The management of the team is fine.  There is o reason to fire anyone.  Maybe the pitching coach but I don't now.  The idea of Hunter or Cuddyer is a player on a 1 year deal while the youngster who will play there develops.  Who would you rather have in LF Hunter, Cuddyer, or Parmelee?  I am ok with Parmelee off of the bench but I do not see him as the starter.  We could use one more starter pitcher.  otherwise everyone else is either a veteran in place or a young player.

[Major League Ready]

Mike,

 

The only prediction I have seen is 7 years and $80M.  Are others prediction something north of $100M?

I actually see this as much more probable than one of the aging front of the rotation guys for a few reasons.

 

1) Risk - People who manage assets for a living evaluate future state scenarios.  What if we got ourselves into a Zito or Sabatia situation.  In 2017 we would have nearly $60M tied-up between Mauer / Nolasco and a 2014 FA SP.  That would be a huge detriment to building a contender.

 

2) Any of these aging SPs are very likely going to get paid a lot of money for more than one season where they are no longer a front of the rotation talent.  We would not have to pay for the declining years with someone like Tomas.  Those declining players also limit flexibility because their contracts often make them untradeable. 

 

3) If you add another SP for the next 5 years, there is the potential to block our young pitchers.  If two of Hughes / Nolasco and Gibson stay healthy, you have two spots for Meyer, May, Barrios and anyone else who might emerge over the next two years.  Obviously, If the new acquisition misses a number of games in the 1st two years it is a bad acquisition.   I guess you could trade Gibson but that is a lot of risk to take on when the team is still not ready to contend.

 

4) Profit and Loss - Acquiring Lester of Shields won't make us a contender and therefore would be a poor business decision.  As much as many people would like that not to be part of the decision it is incredibly unrealistic to think the Polads  should spend it because they have it.

[nicksaviking]

Twins aren't paying more than $10MM* for a cuban.......let's all just give up on this now.

 

*I think you meant this?

[Cap'n Piranha]

I would like to see the team not sign or trade for an OF, but rather do the following move: make Danny Santana a full time OF. Start him in center, and then move him to left, when Buxtons ready.

 

Danny has shown enough xb pop that you can put him in a corner, where his range would be great. It also allows Escobar to play every day at short, which he has shown enough to deserve.

 

Use next year to assess the young guys, and ideally, you can have the lineup below for opening day 2016.

 

1--Buxton--CF

2--Santana--LF

3--Mauer--1B

4--Sano--3B

5--Vargas--DH

6--Escobar--SS

7--Polanco--2B

8--Suzuki--C

9--Hicks--RF

 

SP--Hughes

SP--Meyer

SP--Gibson

SP--Berrios

SP--Elite prospect we traded Dozier, Arcia, and May for

 

That's a lineup with speed and power, possibly the best outfield defense in baseball, and a rotation with 1-2 aces, and nobody worse than a 3. And we still would have Stewart, Thorpe, and Gonsalves in the wings to start, with Michael, Gordon, D Hicks, and Walker for the lineup.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Twins aren't paying more than $100MM for a cuban.......let's all just give up on this now.

 

 

*I think you meant this?

 

Tony O can get Cubans for the Twins whenever they want some, they just have to meet him in Toronto and smoke them all there.