Two Opinions

[stringer bell]

In the postgame presser, Gardenhire says that "things are going to get better in a hurry" and cites examples of the Twins battling back and the notion that they are bonding as a team. I suspect this has a lot to do with the growing Hispanic presence on the club.

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/275396261.html

 

Meanwhile, columnist Patrick Reusse says that changes must be made:

 

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/275383741.html

 

Sounds to me like Gardy wants to keep his job. It also seems to me that Reusse, as usual, makes a lot of sense.

[Mike Sixel]

They have played .350 ball since the break.....and he says things are getting better?

[notoriousgod71]

They have played .350 ball since the break.....and he says things are getting better?

 

 

Better than last September anyway.

[Brandon]

Our draft position is better.  we are just about locked into the 5th pick provided the Astros don't loose a pick if they have to sign their 5th rounder.  That still has to be determined. 

 

In all seriousness we are on the verge of a turnaround as the talent has been brought up and put into position to succeed.  the question is do we need to sign a starting pitcher this offseason or should we count on Pelfry, Pino, and Millone for the back end of our rotation starters number 4,5,and 6.  Nolasco seems to be bouncing back as he has had 4starts in the last 5 be real good and a3.09 era in those starts, including the clunker

[Oldgoat_MN]

2015 starting rotation = Hughes, Nolasco, Meyer, Gibson, May. Pelfrey may be in play.

 

Not really sure how that is going to play out, but this seems more likely than anything else I can come up with. I cannot imagine anyone but Terry Ryan sees a MLB pitcher in Milone. Based on his WHIP, SO/9 and FIP I just don't see it.

 

I think that will be better, but is it a .500 team?

Better?

Worse?

 

Help me... I'm drowning in uncertainty.

[gunnarthor]

They have played .350 ball since the break.....and he says things are getting better?

Here's the actual quote: ""These guys are a pretty special group here. We haven't won a lot, but god-dang, they're in the dugout standing up, rooting for each other," the manager said after Tuesday's ninth-inning rally. "We've got a little something working here, and you hope you can keep it, because it's going to get better. It's going to get a lot better around here. It's going to get better in a hurry because of that. And they're holding each other accountable, too. They're going to each other, they talk to each other. That's where you start making headway.""

 

I don't think he's sugar coating it. He admits they aren't winning. But he likes how they are starting to play and I believe the team has improved its offense significantly in the second half. 

[Platoon]

This doesn't change until Buxton, Sano, Meyer, Polanco et al get here and start pushing some others out. The Twins have too many average players. Average players make average teams. You watch Alexi Ramirez play short, and then EE. That's the talent spread we have to fill, at least partially. Lastly, there is absolutely nothing in Gardy's history that indicates he is the man to handle the lineup that hopefully this team will send out by the end of next year. It's a complete total embarrassment after 4 years to put up with this.

[Platoon]

Here's the actual quote: ""These guys are a pretty special group here. We haven't won a lot, but god-dang, they're in the dugout standing up, rooting for each other," the manager said after Tuesday's ninth-inning rally. "We've got a little something working here, and you hope you can keep it, because it's going to get better. It's going to get a lot better around here. It's going to get better in a hurry because of that. And they're holding each other accountable, too. They're going to each other, they talk to each other. That's where you start making headway.""

 

I don't think he's sugar coating it. He admits they aren't winning. But he likes how they are starting to play and I believe the team has improved its offense significantly in the second half.

 

Our softball team used to stand and cheer each other also! It was a slow pitch team. And our pitchers ERA's were lower than the Twins SP

[USAFChief]

Here's the actual quote:  "We're terrible, and worse now than at the start of the season, but please, please, please don't fire me."

FTFY.

[nater79a]

This doesn't change until Buxton, Sano, Meyer, Polanco et al get here and start pushing some others out. The Twins have too many average players. Average players make average teams.

 

This is exactly how I feel.

 

I don't see a Mike Trout, Bryce Harper or Albert Pujols on this team...yet.

 

 The Twins won't be contenders until about 2017, which is when Buxton and Sano should be closing in on 600-1000 plate appearances.  In turn, this is why I don't really care how the Twins rotation sets up at the START of 2015.  I want to know how the rotation is forming by the END of next year in preparation for two years down the road.

[bird]

Our softball team used to stand and cheer each other also! It was a slow pitch team. And our pitchers ERA's were lower than the Twins SP

So, Gardy's on to something here then.

[Monkeypaws]

2015 starting rotation = Hughes, Nolasco, Meyer, Gibson, May. Pelfrey may be in play.

 

Not really sure how that is going to play out, but this seems more likely than anything else I can come up with. I cannot imagine anyone but Terry Ryan sees a MLB pitcher in Milone. Based on his WHIP, SO/9 and FIP I just don't see it.

 

I think that will be better, but is it a .500 team?

Better?

Worse?

 

Help me... I'm drowning in uncertainty.

 

 

If any of them flop, Berrios is waiting in the wings ....

[bird]

They have played .350 ball since the break.....and he says things are getting better?

This is what I love about you, mike. The position player roster is already markedly different now than it was at the start of the year, right? Most of us think replacing Willingham and Florimon with Vargas and Santana, to name the two of most notable personnel changes since April, has already improved the team. Things are better, and things are getting better. I know you're not ignorant of this. And I know you're not stupid. So that leaves only one explanation. You are choosing to ignore the improvements in personnel, because you want to obtusely harp about these practically irrelevant wins and losses. 

 

Let's turn the tables: So, mike, they've made a few great personnel improvements, led by Santana and Vargas....and you say things aren't getting better? 

[bird]

2015 starting rotation = Hughes, Nolasco, Meyer, Gibson, May. Pelfrey may be in play.

 

Not really sure how that is going to play out, but this seems more likely than anything else I can come up with. I cannot imagine anyone but Terry Ryan sees a MLB pitcher in Milone. Based on his WHIP, SO/9 and FIP I just don't see it.

 

I think that will be better, but is it a .500 team?

Better?

Worse?

 

Help me... I'm drowning in uncertainty.

Oldgoat, your life raft here is what Ryan accomplishes in the off-season. I think many of us were pleasantly surprised with the off-season additions of Hughes and Nolasco last winter. Ryan went on record recently as saying one of his ongoing priorities will be "rotation depth". He's got cash, he's got an owner showing some impatience, he's got at least a few trade chips for once, and more of the competitors for the available talent are tapped out. Don't dismiss the possibility that Ryan acquires a front-line starter from somewhere.

[gunnarthor]

Our softball team used to stand and cheer each other also! It was a slow pitch team. And our pitchers ERA's were lower than the Twins SP

Well the solution is obvious, we just need you to suit up.

[USAFChief]

This is what I love about you, mike. The position player roster is already markedly different now than it was at the start of the year, right? Most of us think replacing Willingham and Florimon with Vargas and Santana, to name the two of most notable personnel changes since April, has already improved the team. Things are better, and things are getting better. I know you're not ignorant of this. And I know you're not stupid. So that leaves only one explanation. You are choosing to ignore the improvements in personnel, because you want to obtusely harp about these practically irrelevant wins and losses. 

 

Let's turn the tables: So, mike, they've made a few great personnel improvements, led by Santana and Vargas....and you say things aren't getting better? 

I would like to agree with this, except wins and losses are never practically irrelevant. To me, "things are better" should show up in something tangible, like wins and losses.

[USAFChief]

To get bak to the subject thread, am I to infer from Gardy's quote that things are getting better because the team is pulling for each other now?

 

Wouldn't the implication then be they haven't been pulling for each other for some time now under his leadership?

[gunnarthor]

To get bak to the subject thread, am I to infer from Gardy's quote that things are getting better because the team is pulling for each other now?

 

Wouldn't the implication then be they haven't been pulling for each other for some time now under his leadership?

I think his implication was that they were working together more and he thought good results were likely to follow that.  It's sorta the opposite of the fun bunch that was just happy to be here. 

 

That said, at this point Gardy is such a divisive figure that anyone who wants to is going to be able to nitpick anything to death.

[bird]

I would like to agree with this, except wins and losses are never practically irrelevant. To me, "things are better" should show up in something tangible, like wins and losses.

My point is you don't need wins and losses as your proof that things are tangibly better. We've subtracted Willingham and Florimon. Vargas and Santana are tangibly more productive. Of course we all agree that the improvements need to eventually show up in the standings, no one would argue that. In September of 2014, I submit that, placed within the context of the positive changes we're witnessing, we're going through a string of fairly meaningless game outcomes, that's all. 

 

But if we insist on wins and losses as the only acceptable evidence of improvement, yes, we've seen no improvement.

[bird]

To get bak to the subject thread, am I to infer from Gardy's quote that things are getting better because the team is pulling for each other now?

 

Wouldn't the implication then be they haven't been pulling for each other for some time now under his leadership?

I think that's exactly what Gardy's implying. I think he's trying to express his delight in the attitudes some of the new guys are bringing to the locker room and more importantly out on the field. Sort of incriminating perhaps of guys like Mauer and Morneau and Willingham? The lack of fiery types in the clubhouse has been a recurring complaint around these parts for some time. While I personally attribute some of this to Gardy's limitations as a leader, you can bet that a lot of our pals on TD, yourself included I'd guess, might place a lion's share of the blame on Gardy and let the guys cashing the big checks (cough Mauer cough) off the hook. I miss Kirby.

[James Richter]

For me, there's a big difference between losing because the starter got blown to bits in the 3rd inning and losing because a playoff team beat our (possibly injured) All-Star closer in their final at-bat. Monday night is a perfect example - last season that game would have ended up 6-1, but these guys fought back and made it interesting. They gave me a reason to pay attention to all 9 innings, which almost never happened last September. Yeah, they still come up short all the freakin' time, but the distance they have to go to turn those late-inning losses into wins is a lot smaller.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

They have played .350 ball since the break.....and he says things are getting better?

I think he was saying fire TR cuz they aren't any better as evidenced by .350 ball. "Leave it up to the Pohlads".

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I would like to agree with this, except wins and losses are never practically irrelevant. To me, "things are better" should show up in something tangible, like wins and losses.

my question is, "Are the right things better?" This team has scored the 6th most runs in the AL this season, which is a vast improvement over years previous, but the win/loss record has improved marginally, if at all. Baseball is a team sport requiring all facets to improve, not just one.

[goulik]

I think many here are misquoting Gardy and only holding on to one sound bite of what he said. The part that stuck out to me was the players holding eachother accountable. They are a team invested in each other and that IS important. All that youth means they are only gonna grow and hopefully that is reinvigorating for old man Mauer as well.

[twinsnorth49]

Gardy's quote was actually "going to get better around here". Going, as in future tense, he didn't say "are better", which would indicate the team has been more successful. 

 

There are some exciting, encouraging players here already and the best ones are still to come, hopefully at some point next season.  With a decent FA signing or two in the off season (LF, CF, possibly a pitcher), it's hard not to envision some better things for this team in the near future. 

[Mike Sixel]

To get bak to the subject thread, am I to infer from Gardy's quote that things are getting better because the team is pulling for each other now?

 

Wouldn't the implication then be they haven't been pulling for each other for some time now under his leadership?

 

If there was a love button, I'd push it for this one.

[Mike Sixel]

My point is you don't need wins and losses as your proof that things are tangibly better. We've subtracted Willingham and Florimon. Vargas and Santana are tangibly more productive. Of course we all agree that the improvements need to eventually show up in the standings, no one would argue that. In September of 2014, I submit that, placed within the context of the positive changes we're witnessing, we're going through a string of fairly meaningless game outcomes, that's all. 

 

But if we insist on wins and losses as the only acceptable evidence of improvement, yes, we've seen no improvement.

 

This is fair, IF, we set some kind of expectation of things being better, say, next year. If not, then not much really changed, imo.

 

I get your points, bird, and appreciate your approach in this thread. But I have some issues with Gardy, that are all over this quote. It is about hustle and getting after it, and all kinds of things except wins and losses. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, maybe it isn't about stuff that doesn't really matter and how important that is to him. Maybe it isn't about the complete lack of that from him and Mauer and Perkins and Dozier the last few years (if it does matter, where was it before?). Maybe it isn't about him trying to say "hey, none of the last part of this was my fault, and I know we still suck, but really, I promise, it will be better, trust me, even though we have produced no results at all as a team again this year".

 

Maybe I'm no longer able to take anything Gardy says seriously or objectively anymore.

 

His refusal to play Pinto is the deal sealer for me. If that is not evidence of his ability to build up young players (or NOT), I don't know what is. He's basically saying "I refuse to play you in games that matter. Heck, I even refuse to play you in games that don't". Not sure how that builds the future at all.

[gil4]

Last night it fun to see Arcia's reaction when Dozier hit the triple off the top of the fence last night - his "what's that? Is that all you've got" gesture was pretty funny.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

To get bak to the subject thread, am I to infer from Gardy's quote that things are getting better because the team is pulling for each other now?

 

Wouldn't the implication then be they haven't been pulling for each other for some time now under his leadership?

 

The Bartlett retirement was devastating to our clubhouse chemistry and it's taken most of the season to repair that chemistry.

 

Snark aside, I think Chief makes a good point. 

[old nurse]

 

His refusal to play Pinto is the deal sealer for me. If that is not evidence of his ability to build up young players (or NOT), I don't know what is. He's basically saying "I refuse to play you in games that matter. Heck, I even refuse to play you in games that don't". Not sure how that builds the future at all.

Not playing Pinto in games that matter goes back to trying to win the game.  Playing teams that are in playoff contention it is the right thing to do.