Article: Roster Shuffle: Twins Add Guerrier, What's Next?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Arcia and Hicks to come up?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I guess this is what's next:

 

 

• Dustin Morse ‏@Twins_morsecode 2m
  Following today's game the @twins have optioned Pedro Florimon & Chris Herrmann to AAA. Corresponding roster moves tomorrow. #MNTwins
  

 

Sounds like somebody set off a logic bomb in the front office.

[PseudoSABR]

Hicks and Arcia, then? Though I thought Arcia's wrist was still bumming.

[Thrylos]

Deduno was the Twins' best pitcher when healthy last season. He deserves the first shot at an open spot in the rotation.

 

If you count winning percentage and EEA he was. With every other measure he wasn't.

[golfboy1]

I could not agree more. Who goes into a season with 1 CF in Triple A and 1 CF in MLB and not one 4th outfielder between the two?

 

 

Exactly. Hicks is struggling to hit ML pitching. Who could have possibly seen that coming??? So their backup plan was Jason Bartlett?? And their AAA plan was Mastroianni? That's not a good plan.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If you count winning percentage and EEA he was. With every other measure he wasn't.

 

ERA+, K/9. He pitched about half a season and was the only above average (barely, at that) starter for the Twins in 2013. Correia was the only other guy that had a positive bWAR and despite pitching 185 innings to Deduno's 108, only edged him by .1 bWAR (1.6 to 1.5).

 

Deduno was clearly the best starter on the team when he was healthy, as sad as that is to say.

[DuluthFan]

I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

 

Another issue this team is dealing with is using the back up catcher as the DH. Most other teams do not do this. The DH position on most teams is filled by an extra outfielder or corner baseman so they have additional players that can also play the field. Neither Pinto nor Suzuki play any position other than catcher. While they have both been batting well, the team is handicapped by their inability to fill in at another position. Hermann was called up as an outfielder and has played there to fill in for one of the 4 DL'd outfielders and should not be counted as a catcher.

 

Thirteen pitchers. With the way the starting pitching has been over the last few years, the Twins have needed that extra relief pitcher. If and when the starters can consistently pitch into the 6th and 7th innings, the Twins will no longer need that extra pitcher to finish out a game.

 

As far as who is making the front office calls, the GM or Assistant GM, if you don't think they have consulted each other over possible moves you probably have never worked in a corporate job. Sure, Antony may be making the daily calls, but if he makes a call it has probably already been discussed and approved by Ryan. Antony has probably been given an outline and guidance on what he can or cannot do, who he can or cannot move. I would have to guess most organizations probably have short and long term organizational plans.

[Winston Smith]

Well we have worked our way into the basement of the Central. Last year on May 8 we were 15-15 this year 15-18 not a lot of progress.

[Thrylos]

ERA+, K/9. He pitched about half a season and was the only above average (barely, at that) starter for the Twins in 2013. Correia was the only other guy that had a positive bWAR and despite pitching 185 innings to Deduno's 108, only edged him by .1 bWAR (1.6 to 1.5).

 

Deduno was clearly the best starter on the team when he was healthy, as sad as that is to say.

 

ERA + is ERA. K/9 Pelfrey was better. And better is subjective. Objective measures say that others were better

[SwainZag]

I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

 

As much as I love to question the front office you make a good point. At what point before the season did the organization ask...what if all 4 OF go on the DL, and Mauer is hurting causing Bello to play 1B? What are we going to do then?? Yes, today's lineup was a cluster, but it was just patchwork in 1 day game in Cleveland in early May of a long season. If we were in mid-July and still having this kind of roster, I might be more concerned.

[AScheib50]

Well we have worked our way into the basement of the Central. Last year on May 8 we were 15-15 this year 15-18 not a lot of progress.

 

That, to me, is the most depressing thing of all this. As of like a week ago there was still some positive vibes around here and surrounding the team. Now it appears this ship is sinking in a hurry and people are scrambling for their life vests.

[Brock Beauchamp]

ERA + is ERA. K/9 Pelfrey was better.

 

Ah, Pelrey did edge him out.

 

Anyway, Deduno was easily better than Pelfrey, Worley, Hendriks, and the rest of the junk they rolled out in 2013.

 

The only guy who had similar win value was Correia and it took him 80 more innings to basically equal Deduno.

 

Therefore, Deduno was the best pitcher. Basically tied Correia for win value but did it in 60% of the innings.

[TheLeviathan]

Guys, don't worry Joe Mauer's move to first base will allow him to stay healthy and with him able to play every day his power numbers should improve.

 

My god this is a great post. This needs to be quoted multiple times more so everyone who declared "Mauer will be even better in 2014!) can chew on reality a bit here. Those were such pipedreams at the time and here is reality again to remind us of that.

[SwainZag]

That, to me, is the most depressing thing of all this. As of like a week ago there was still some positive vibes around here and surrounding the team. Now it appears this ship is sinking in a hurry and people are scrambling for their life vests.

 

I honestly don't know what people expected out of this team. The rainouts at the end of the month really did something to hitting. 3-7 in 10 games since then averaging just over 3 runs per game and only scoring 5 or more twice. This 4 game set alone they went 1-3 scoring just 10 runs.

 

I don't think it's depressing they are in last place with a 15-18 record right now. After that 15-15 start last year they proceeded to go 51-81. Way too early to be calling anything "a sinking ship."

[Craig Arko]

I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

 

Another issue this team is dealing with is using the back up catcher as the DH. Most other teams do not do this. The DH position on most teams is filled by an extra outfielder or corner baseman so they have additional players that can also play the field. Neither Pinto nor Suzuki play any position other than catcher. While they have both been batting well, the team is handicapped by their inability to fill in at another position. Hermann was called up as an outfielder and has played there to fill in for one of the 4 DL'd outfielders and should not be counted as a catcher.

 

Thirteen pitchers. With the way the starting pitching has been over the last few years, the Twins have needed that extra relief pitcher. If and when the starters can consistently pitch into the 6th and 7th innings, the Twins will no longer need that extra pitcher to finish out a game.

 

As far as who is making the front office calls, the GM or Assistant GM, if you don't think they have consulted each other over possible moves you probably have never worked in a corporate job. Sure, Antony may be making the daily calls, but if he makes a call it has probably already been discussed and approved by Ryan. Antony has probably been given an outline and guidance on what he can or cannot do, who he can or cannot move. I would have to guess most organizations probably have short and long term organizational plans.

 

Be careful; people have been burned as witches for less heresy than this.

[golfboy1]

I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

 

Another issue this team is dealing with is using the back up catcher as the DH. Most other teams do not do this. The DH position on most teams is filled by an extra outfielder or corner baseman so they have additional players that can also play the field. Neither Pinto nor Suzuki play any position other than catcher. While they have both been batting well, the team is handicapped by their inability to fill in at another position. Hermann was called up as an outfielder and has played there to fill in for one of the 4 DL'd outfielders and should not be counted as a catcher.

 

Thirteen pitchers. With the way the starting pitching has been over the last few years, the Twins have needed that extra relief pitcher. If and when the starters can consistently pitch into the 6th and 7th innings, the Twins will no longer need that extra pitcher to finish out a game.

 

As far as who is making the front office calls, the GM or Assistant GM, if you don't think they have consulted each other over possible moves you probably have never worked in a corporate job. Sure, Antony may be making the daily calls, but if he makes a call it has probably already been discussed and approved by Ryan. Antony has probably been given an outline and guidance on what he can or cannot do, who he can or cannot move. I would have to guess most organizations probably have short and long term organizational plans.

 

I'll give them some slack. Having this many injuries compounds the situation but they still could have done a much better job. Kubel & Colabello slotted into the corner outfield spots for Arcia & Willingham so that worked out ok.

 

At the start of the season Hicks was the only CF on the roster, unless you count a 34yr old infielder (Bartlett). The only other CF @ AAA was Mastroianni, who they managed to lose acquiring another AAAA CF (Fuld).

 

At the least, they should have kept Alex Presley instead of Bartlett. Or they could have went after someone like Bonifacio. The fact that Hicks is struggling shouldn't have come as a big surprise. What was their plan if/when that happened?

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

 

I get the Hicks/Fuld bad luck this week, but the other two of those starting outfielders (Arcia and Willingham) went out with injury over a month ago, and have yet to be replaced with an actual outfielder.

[Lonestar]

I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

It's not their fault that all 4 OF's are on the DL at the same time.

 

It is their fault that they went with Bartlett and 3 catchers and 3 shortstops that they were stuck starting Escobar in the OF with no OF on the bench and Parmelee a phone call away -- a phone call that was not made.

[teekz]

Parmelee is not on the 40 man roster. A corresponding move would have to be made. I'd prefer to see him hit in AAA for another month to prove what he is doing now is legit anyway.

[Guest USAFChief]

Parmelee is not on the 40 man roster. A corresponding move would have to be made. I'd prefer to see him hit in AAA for another month to prove what he is doing now is legit anyway.

Guerrier wasn't on the 40 man either. The spot they opened for Guerrier could have been used on Parmelee. What possible pressing need was there to vet Guerrier up?

[stringer bell]

It's not their fault that all 4 OF's are on the DL at the same time.

 

It is their fault that they went with Bartlett and 3 catchers and 3 shortstops that they were stuck starting Escobar in the OF with no OF on the bench and Parmelee a phone call away -- a phone call that was not made.

The Bartlett decision is still having repercussions. Keep Bartlett, lose Presley, lose Bartlett, sign Fuld, but lose Mastro. Now both Hicks and Fuld are on the concussion DL and who knows who will be playing CF in Comerica Park if Hicks isn't good to go (and Hicks being good to go isn't a particularly good thing).

 

I have defended Gardy's reluctance to DH his only backup catcher, but if the third catcher is Chris Herrmann, it weakens the bench too much. Chris Herrmann should be DFAed. I doubt anyone would claim him, and if he were claimed they have a right handed version of him at Rochester. Dan Rohlfing has Herrmann's skills and can legitimately play first base.

 

The 13-pitcher issue needs to be dealt with. If the Twins go with Santana at short, they will have two versatile players in reserve in Escobar and Nunez. Add Hicks/Fuld and the alternate catcher and it's not a bad bench, but of course that would require a) a bullpen arm shedded. both Fuld and Hicks spend the minimum time on the concussion DL.

[jokin]

Parmelee is not on the 40 man roster. A corresponding move would have to be made. I'd prefer to see him hit in AAA for another month to prove what he is doing now is legit anyway.

 

This was not an impediment. Willingham could have been 60-dayed.

[S.]

Parmelee is not on the 40 man roster. A corresponding move would have to be made. I'd prefer to see him hit in AAA for another month to prove what he is doing now is legit anyway.

Quite frankly, even if what he's doing isn't "legit", I fail to see how it wouldn't be a huge upgrade over anyone we've had in the OF for the last month who isn't named Jason Kubel. Parmelee isn't the best outfielder, but put him next to Herrmann or Colabello or Escobar and he's going to look like a perennial gold glove winner. And even if he comes up here and flops entirely, he still can't be a worse bat option than Florimon, Herrmann, etc.

[jokin]

Guerrier wasn't on the 40 man either. The spot they opened for Guerrier could have been used on Parmelee. What possible pressing need was there to vet Guerrier up?

 

The pressing need was keeping a promise, apparently. Parmelee was the obvious move- last Sunday evening...and they could have 60-dayed Willingham, which it sounds like they're going to do eventually, anyway.

[jokin]

The Bartlett decision is still having repercussions. Keep Bartlett, lose Presley, lose Bartlett, sign Fuld, but lose Mastro. Now both Hicks and Fuld are on the concussion DL and who knows who will be playing CF in Comerica Park if Hicks isn't good to go (and Hicks being good to go isn't a particularly good thing).

 

I have defended Gardy's reluctance to DH his only backup catcher, but if the third catcher is Chris Herrmann, it weakens the bench too much. Chris Herrmann should be DFAed. I doubt anyone would claim him, and if he were claimed they have a right handed version of him at Rochester. Dan Rohlfing has Herrmann's skills and can legitimately play first base.

 

The 13-pitcher issue needs to be dealt with. If the Twins go with Santana at short, they will have two versatile players in reserve in Escobar and Nunez. Add Hicks/Fuld and the alternate catcher and it's not a bad bench, but of course that would require a) a bullpen arm shedded. both Fuld and Hicks spend the minimum time on the concussion DL.

 

And Gardy shot himself in the foot on this issue yet again today. 5 RPs used up in 3.2 innings pitched

[stringer bell]

The pressing need was keeping a promise, apparently. Parmelee was the obvious move- last Sunday evening...and they could have 60-dayed Willingham, which it sounds like they're going to do eventually, anyway.

The report I saw yesterday was that Willingham swung pain-free yesterday. A 60-day DL stint would keep Hammer out until June 5th or something like that. In response to another point made here, just using a reliever doesn't disable him for a day or two if they don't throw too many pitches. The best example is the closer. Perkins is usually available at least three days in a row for an inning only. Under that criteria, perhaps all of the relievers used today would be available tomorrow. If 20 pitches is the cutoff, Guerrier wouldn't be available, but everyone else would.

[Riverbrian]

I think everyone's complaining about the front office handling of the outfield situation when it is not their fault. Look, the Twins have lost their ENTIRE starting outfield plus their 4th outfielder to the DL. All 4 outfielders are on the DL. I don't know of any situation like this ever happening before to this team or any other team. The opening day starting roster usually only has 4 outfielders on the roster. Kubel was pegged as the DH and Collabello was the backup first baseman/bench bat. No team plans to lose all of their outfielders to the DL at the same time, no one.

 

Another issue this team is dealing with is using the back up catcher as the DH. Most other teams do not do this. The DH position on most teams is filled by an extra outfielder or corner baseman so they have additional players that can also play the field. Neither Pinto nor Suzuki play any position other than catcher. While they have both been batting well, the team is handicapped by their inability to fill in at another position. Hermann was called up as an outfielder and has played there to fill in for one of the 4 DL'd outfielders and should not be counted as a catcher.

 

Thirteen pitchers. With the way the starting pitching has been over the last few years, the Twins have needed that extra relief pitcher. If and when the starters can consistently pitch into the 6th and 7th innings, the Twins will no longer need that extra pitcher to finish out a game.

 

As far as who is making the front office calls, the GM or Assistant GM, if you don't think they have consulted each other over possible moves you probably have never worked in a corporate job. Sure, Antony may be making the daily calls, but if he makes a call it has probably already been discussed and approved by Ryan. Antony has probably been given an outline and guidance on what he can or cannot do, who he can or cannot move. I would have to guess most organizations probably have short and long term organizational plans.

 

This is a great post and I agree with almost every word... As a matter of fact... I've typed words that are much the same.

 

The Twins have been knocked silly by injuries. In no way can the Front Office be blamed for that. I have defended the front office against some tough TD winds for awhile now.

 

However... CF... I can't look at it any other way. They didn't learn from 2013 and it's a big part of the current problem.

[kblack1011]

The Twins started the season with Hicks who was terrible last year, Willingham who was out most of last year and has a history of injuries, Arcia who was in and out with injuries last year and Kubel who is old with an injury history. If you go into the season with that outfield, you better have some options in AAA.

 

There is no excuse for this mismanagement. The roster moves over the last two years have been horrible. We just throw people in the outfield like we are running a little league team.

[drivlikejehu]

The sad part is, that after multiple more years of 90+ losses and epic mismanagement, the Twins front office will still have ardent defenders. It's just one of those aspects of fandom I guess.

[BucknersLegs]

Just glad you didn't recommend Parmelee. He has gone 1 for 15 and his era is nose-diving. keep Parms at AAA.