Twins Catcher Ryan Jeffers's Pitch Framing Continues to Slump

40 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

Give me the electronic strike zone and get rid of this silly pitch framing stat.  It is a strike or not a strike.  Stealing a strike is a silly thing to celebrate.  

I agree, Pitch framing should not even be an issue, or least not some sort of "talent" that is sought after. 

The Human element has always been an important part of the game. Take the umpire, pitch framing and other things out of the game and you lose that.

At some point why play the game at all? You might as well just run a computer simulation.

still say bull...... pitch is supposed to be called as it crosses the plate..not where it hits catchers mit.. 

"Umpires tendencies can vary widely"

That statement alone supports robo umps or at least the challenge system. It seems to work great at AAA. It's fair to all players, and by all accounts they love it. No bias for star players, big markets, or even potential collusion with gamblers.

1 hour ago, KBJ1 said:

The Human element has always been an important part of the game. Take the umpire, pitch framing and other things out of the game and you lose that.

At some point why play the game at all? You might as well just run a computer simulation.

I like the human element to be the players and strategy, not the umpire's humanity.

Catching is a grueling position, Jeffers was in 96 games last season & has 92 games so far this season. Jeffers isn't a defensive catcher, he's a hitting catcher. He really has to work hard to become an average defensive catcher. All these innings has paid a toll on Jeffers. Many clamored about Jeffers getting more innings, I advocated that he should get less so he can keep up his hitting & catching metrics. 

On the other hand Vazquez gets more into the game, the more he plays. Therefore the improvement in his hitting. We should take advantage of that & tell fans that Jeffers has a sore foot & give him a break periodically to maintain his hitting & catching metrics.

Slumping at the plate as well. Jeffers slash line since June 1, .189/.253/.322

15 minutes ago, gregens said:

I like the human element to be the players and stategy, not the umpire's humanity.

Let's get rid of instant replay & be totally dependent on the human element. It's foolish to trust umpires' frail humanity. especially when so much is depending on it. I prefer fair & impartial robo ump any day.

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

It's foolish to trust umpires' frail humanity. especially when so much is depending on it. I'd prefer fair & imparcial robo ump.

I agree.  The game and each play should be decided by the team members (including the manager), not the umpires.   The best umpire is the one the fans and players don't notice.

35 minutes ago, MinnInPa said:

still say bull...... pitch is supposed to be called as it crosses the plate..not where it hits catchers mit.. 

The key word in your correct statement is "supposed".  Unfortunately we humans don't always do what we're supposed to do.

Curious if we give Jeffers an extension and look at him as our long term guy? We don't have any exciting catching depth, Vasquez is gone after next year. Do we look to free agency?

The Twins pitching is improved since the last two years. They are throwing strikes more often. Have there be fewer opportunities to steal a strike and more opportunities to lose a strike? Would that shift in opportunities skew the framing numbers in a negative direction? I have no idea.

Bottom line is the Twins lead the AL in strikeouts this year and did last year. They ranked 10th and 12th in the two previous seasons. Jeffers has contributed to that improvement.

I'd like to hear an umpire interviewed about so-called pitch framing, which I think is total nonsense. I've umpired many games, and the idea that a catcher influences me is absurd. By the time the ball reaches his mitt I have already decided, and I venture to say this is true for all umpires.

44 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

I went to a AAA Albuquerque Isotopes game about 2 weeks ago that had robo ump in use.  Human ump got every challenge wrong.

Thats "pitch framing" a pretty way of saying wrong again ump.

I still prefer straight robo-ump over having a challenge system.  

If he is or isn't framing is not the biggest problem at this time.His at bats have become the issue.Watching his at bats are now a automatic out.He can't seem to see pitches feet out of the zone,striking out on a regular basis.It is time to sit him for the Rangers series and let him rest and look at film.

59 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

I went to a AAA Albuquerque Isotopes game about 2 weeks ago that had robo ump in use.  Human ump got every challenge wrong.

Thats "pitch framing" a pretty way of saying wrong again ump.

How are you sure that it was the umpire that got those calls wrong? Is everything that is captured in the 2D zone the correct call?

2 hours ago, LambchoP said:

Curious if we give Jeffers an extension and look at him as our long term guy? We don't have any exciting catching depth, Vasquez is gone after next year. Do we look at free agency?

That's how things look like. Where do our catching depth rank? Very low! Olivar looks the best & has the tools to be a very good defensive catcher but he's not being developed into one, actually he's not good. Cosetti won't stick at catcher he hasn't been hitting at AA.

5 hours ago, KBJ1 said:

The Human element has always been an important part of the game. Take the umpire, pitch framing and other things out of the game and you lose that.

At some point why play the game at all? You might as well just run a computer simulation.

Never have I attended a game in any sport to watch the umpires.  At best they are invisible.  More often they detract from the experience.

The human elements are the players.

The arguments in favor of human umpires is akin to saying that food isn't as good because farmers now use tractors instead of horses and oxen.

3 hours ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

I think catchers DO influence umpires.  You can see that plainly when a pitch is way off the plate and the catcher catches the ball and moves the mitt 6" to get it over the plate.

I cannot wait for automatic calls for balls and strikes.

And for those of you who love the "human element", then I'm sure you prefer umpires and referees in other sports like football, tennis, hockey and basketball to get the call wrong on your team and have never complained about it.

One last comment RE: Jeffers.  He focused hard on framing and throwing out runners a few years back.  Then recently he focused on hitting and those defensive metrics dropped.  I think there are too many things to focus on as a catcher to be proficient at all of them except for those truly elite athletes like Mauer.

Seriously...6 inches?  I think not.

Keep in mind that game officials make calls that favor our teams often.  I would ascert that over the course of a game calls will go both ways.

Jeffers has never impressed me.  He sets up a poor target, he is poor at blocking balls in the dirt and throwing out runners.  The Twins made a mistake in the draft by not taking a top catcher...it is the weakest position throughout the organization.

Since his hot start he’s been a below average hitter. His metrics support how his bat has looked since that hot start. 
his defense has been below average in all facets. 

Vazquez should be playing more. 

How to delete? ha

The Twins obviously believe in framing as they contort their catchers stance. He’s not a great receiver but I would let him go back to a traditional crouch behind the plate. His blocking and throwing would improve and framing would be the same.