The Twins' Catching Rotation is Costing Them

See this complaint as a bit early, Ted.

Considering that several of the guys who would get more playing time if Jeffers was behind the plate versus DH are hitting as badly or worse than Vazquez, ie, Margot, Santana, Castro, Farmer and Wallner, before he was sent down.

His defense is very good and have always heard he is a positive in the locker room.  Also see that Vazquez has had a couple key hits in recent wins.  That might suggest he is beginning to hit more like the past. 

130 games for Jeffers is not going to happen unless 30 of those games are at DH. Adley Rutschman maxed out at 110 games behind the plate in 2023.

36 minutes ago, roger said:

See this complaint as a bit early, Ted.

Considering that several of the guys who would get more playing time if Jeffers was behind the plate versus DH are hitting as badly or worse than Vazquez, ie, Margot, Santana, Castro, Farmer and Wallner, before he was sent down.

His defense is very good and have always heard he is a positive in the locker room.  Also see that Vazquez has had a couple key hits in recent wins.  That might suggest he is beginning to hit more like the past. 

Early? We're now just shy of seven solid months of watching Vazquez flail with the bat. You named a bunch of guys who might be in the lineup instead of Vazquez & yes, they're all struggling, but every single one has shown stretches of good hitting over the past year. That isn't the case for Vazquez. He's been a liability at the plate since he put on a Twins uniform. At this point he's a classic play twice-a-week backup. 

26 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

130 games for Jeffers is not going to happen unless 30 of those games are at DH. Adley Rutschman maxed out at 110 games behind the plate in 2023.

130 games includes DH time. The top catchers in baseball play 110-120 games behind the plate. Jeffers is on pace for 77 right now. 78 all last year. 
100 for Jeffers should be the goal with an additional 30 at DH. 

The Twins are on an amazing streak of more than one year plus of not having any catcher hit the IL. What they are doing is keeping both catchers healthy. Vazquez is great on defense. I say keep rotating every game as Jeffers gets the DH some days when he isn't catching.

8 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

The Twins are on an amazing streak of more than one year plus of not having any catcher hit the IL. What they are doing is keeping both catchers healthy. Vazquez is great on defense. I say keep rotating every game as Jeffers gets the DH some days when he isn't catching.

Not having catchers get hurt doesn’t mean they’re doing something right, just getting good luck. As I mentioned earlier the top catchers in baseball start 110-120 a year. There’s no reason for Jeffers to be starting the same or less than Vázquez  

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there is still always a bat available that represents a better fit than Vázquez does

Over the past 2 weeks I'm not sure that has been true, which is sad. Some of the better bats would make the defense worse enough that I'd rather have Vazquez in the lineup and Jeffers at DH.

If you think defense at catching isn't important then what you say makes sense. But most serious fans that don't follow social media would disagree w/ you. Although I thought $30MM/ 3yrs. is too much for catching, that's what they paid Vazquez to do, so why not have him catch at least 1/2 the games? Especially when he's a better catcher than Jeffers. Jeffers is a better bat so it makes sense that he DH when he's not catching. What doesn't make sense is having Vazquez DH.

What I saw last year as the season progressed & Jeffers was given more playing time, his #s dipped especially defensively. What Jeffers has shown me so far is that he's very good especially offensively in a supportive role but in the leading role he can't handle it especially defensively; that's why Vazquez was signed in the 1st place.

The whole team in general stinks w/o Lewis so I wouldn't focus on Vazquez but I'd focus on having other hitters at positions where production is mandatory that isn't producing to play less. So far this season Vazquez batting has been fine for a catcher with promising signs of getting better. So I'd wouldn't want to disturb what is working for something that probably won't.

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

fine for a catcher? He's 50th among catchers hitting this year. 50th. 

I thought the Marlins were even worse for hitting for their catchers.

10 million for Vazquez seems like a massive overpay.  Is there any other team catching-desperate enough to take on that contract?  It would allow them to try to make a deal for a starting pitcher if they could dump that contract as part of the deal.  Camargo is mashing in the minors but I have no idea how good of a defensive catcher he is.....

Jeffers is on pace for 540 plate appearances this year. Last year only 6 players had more PAs with catcher as their primary position.

Ryan Jeffers *might* just be the best hitter on the roster.  He's in the discussion at least.  The other possible answers to the "best hitter" question are either frequently injured (Correa, Kirilloff) or have a too short track record to confidently get that title (Lewis, Julien).  Jeffers had a 134 OPS+ last year, and thus far is improving on that number this year.  He's 27, just entering his prime.  He can't be a free agent until 2027.

In my mind, the question is not should Jeffers catch more games.  Rather, it is "should Jeffers move off of the catcher position entirely?"  1b? Dh?  His bat is getting too valuable on this bad-hitting squad to risk at catcher, and he's mediocre there defensively anyway.  Catchers get hurt, frequently.  They age quickly and badly, almost always.  Only a few are still hitting well into their early 30s.  Even the best of them can only catch 130 games a year, and most catch far fewer.  I'm starting to ponder that Jeffers might be worth more to the team by largely eliminating his catching duties and getting him into the lineup every day.  It's too late to make the change this year the way the roster is constructed, but next year?  If he continues to hit well I think I'd pencil him in at 1b or DH.

If Santana and Farmer can make it into the lineup then I have no problem with Vazquez. He looks more unlucky than lost. Unlike those other two. 
 

I get the intent here but I don’t yet see a better offensive option on this team. Yet. I see why they are letting it play out. Before the white Sox series it didn’t look like we had 4 competent hitters on this team so another 7-14 days of wait and see who steps up makes sense. 
 

19 hours ago, roger said:

See this complaint as a bit early, Ted.

Considering that several of the guys who would get more playing time if Jeffers was behind the plate versus DH are hitting as badly or worse than Vazquez, ie, Margot, Santana, Castro, Farmer and Wallner, before he was sent down.

His defense is very good and have always heard he is a positive in the locker room.  Also see that Vazquez has had a couple key hits in recent wins.  That might suggest he is beginning to hit more like the past. 

Go figure. Vazquez comes into the Twins system and his hard hit rate goes up but getting on base percentage goes down. It might be me, but I see that pattern with the entire Twins lineup. 

well....as bad as it is...just be happy we didnt keep Ben Rortvelt..who couldnt hit .150

Not a fan of Rocco, his managing style is 100% data driven, continues to amaze me the opportunities to make managing decisions instead chooses his booklet instead. Great managers know when to make decisions that aren't data driven.

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Playing the catching tandem is likely rooted in an idea that Minnesota can keep both Jeffers and Vázquez fresh and healthy if neither is overextended. 

That is the WHOLE reason why he has done this and although I am not a Baldelli fan this is extremely smart. Just look at the postseason and Jeffers production playing every day... Zip.. Was a mistake then by not alternating and keeping them fresh and would be a great mistake playing Jeffers every day. What they are doing now is dead on what they should be doing. 

Spend a bit of time behind the dish in my younger years... Wearing is an understatement for the toll it takes on a body! 

On 4/25/2024 at 11:35 AM, Azviking101 said:

130 games includes DH time. The top catchers in baseball play 110-120 games behind the plate. Jeffers is on pace for 77 right now. 78 all last year. 
100 for Jeffers should be the goal with an additional 30 at DH. 

The iron man days of catching all the time are basically done.  130 games caught in a season is a unicorn.  100 is a realistic goal/expectation.

Vasquez has been productive defensively.  We probably can't discount how much he has helped Jeffers while he has been here.

I am not going to argue rotation and health, because it worked last year and continues to work this year,  I hope that Vasquez can start provide offense closer to his numbers before he came to MN.