2 outs away from his 3rd straight complete game

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think it's a fair point about history. As of April 2011, there hadn't been a CG in a MLB debut since 2002, and there had only been 41 shutouts in debuts since 1928, and very few since the 1960s:

 

CGs since 1928 - Baseball-Reference.com

 

So at 109 pitches, evenly distributed throughout the game, with 2 outs to go and a 7 run lead, against a solidly below average offense, with a pitcher who had already thrown consecutive CGs at AAA with similar pitch counts, I think a little longer leash might have been warranted. In fact, it was almost a perfect storm of conditions to warrant a ~120 pitch outing. (Although in modern MLB, just letting the starter pitch in the ninth inning at all seems to be a very long leash.)

 

And, to be fair, the odds that Albers throws another MLB CG, much less a shutout, are pretty low at this point. Although he probably knew he blew his chance with the 4 pitch walk (his first walk of the night, no less), I'm guessing he wanted to continue. He had a legit shot at the record books.

[Sssuperdave]

He should have been allowed to pitch until he gave up a run.

 

That run could easily have been a three run homer to Butler or Gordon.

[Marta Shearing]

It should have been 100% Albers decision to stay in or not. Its not gardy's preordained right to be the "protector" of his young arms. Seven run lead. Let the kid make the decision. Its his arm. His career. A shutout in his first ML start was something he would have cherished forever.

[Marta Shearing]

That run could easily have been a three run homer to Butler or Gordon.

And still a 4 run lead. Whats your point? It would have scarred him for life?

[Chance]

And still a 4 run lead. Whats your point? It would have scarred him for life?

 

Exactly.

[diehardtwinsfan]

It should have been 100% Albers decision to stay in or not. Its not gardy's preordained right to be the "protector" of his young arms. Seven run lead. Let the kid make the decision. Its his arm. His career. A shutout in his first ML start was something he would have cherished forever.

 

Um... no. That very much is Gardy's job. I don't get the consternation here personally.

[Guest USAFChief]

There have been, and will be, plenty of opportunities to rant about Gardys decisions on removing starting pitchers. You only need to go back one night, when he let Corriea give up 6 in the 2nd, only to go to the bullpen to start the 3rd. The damage was done at that point, why not get more than 50 pitches from your starter and save some work on a tired bullpen?

 

But complaining about this? In pursuit of nothing but a personal achievement--and not even an achievement that would be remembered past his next start?

 

I don't get it. Seems to me that would be worse than leaving a pitcher in because "it was his W to get" which we rightly criticise all the time.

[Major League Ready]

I think at least a small part of it was maintaing the confidence of a player trying to prove himself at this level. This has to give Albers confidence quite a boost. Removing him assured he would enter his next start with an elevated level of confidence. He shut out a team that scored 13 runs the night before. Confidence is a big plus.

[adjacent]

The reason pitchers fatigue at 100 pitches is because they are conditioned to pitch 100 pitches.

You give the argument for the opposite response. If an athlete is not prepared for the extra effort, then better not do the extra effort or chances are he is going to get hurt. Probably not on the 110 pitch, but the longer he goes from this point the danger increases. And he was visibly tired at that point, the number of 3 ball counts was increasing, it wasn't only the walk. I gree that the 100 pitch count thing is kind of arbitrary. But if that is what a pitcher is trained to do, then you have to stop it around that number, especially in a debut.

[Marta Shearing]

I think at least a small part of it was maintaing the

confidence of a player trying to prove himself at this level. This has to give Albers confidence quite a boost. Removing him assured he would enter his next start with an elevated level of confidence. He shut out a team that scored 13 runs the night before. Confidence is a big plus.

If giving up a run scoring single or a 3 run bomb is enough to shake his confidence then somethings wrong.

[Beezer07]

I'm outraged at the amount of outrage present in every single forum post on this site.

 

And I think Gardy made the right move. You don't want to end on a terrible note, like loading the bases on walks or letting up a lot of runs. Get the guy out of there and leave him with good things to build on.

[twinsnorth49]

Chief's right, the team earned the shutout, Albers did his part. Everything else is sentimentality and feigned outrage.

[Monkeypaws]

Don't get the clamoring for the complete game. When you're done, you're done. Albers was done.

 

By his own admission: " I was definitely getting tired. ..."

There's always next game, where he can show them what he's really got.

[Jack Torse]

I didn't like the move and think he should have continued. If he walks Butler then yank him. Could have easily thrown 1 pitch for a double play. More than anything I like the demeanor of this albers. He acts like he wants to shove the ball up somebody's ass and it was fun to watch. He's the only reason I tuned in.

[jimbo92107]

Albers was gassed, and the ump just finished screwing him on a 3rd strike, so Gardy did the right thing. Fein got a little lucky with the dp grounder, but it's all good. Albers wasn't in danger of hurting himself, just blowing the shutout.

[Jack Torse]

I'm outraged at the amount of outrage present in every single forum post on this site.

 

That's a very profound emotion considering the subject matter.

[snepp]

IMO pulling him was the right call.

 

I agree.

 

Albers was given the chance to go out there and possibly get through a quick 9th, but it didn't work out that way and that 4-pitch walk made the decision pretty easy.

 

Would Gardy had left him in if it had been a squibber for a single instead of an ugly walk? That would have made for a better debate.

[Otto von Ballpark]

and not even an achievement that would be remembered past his next start?

 

Did you not see my earlier post? I know technically it's only a small difference -- two outs away -- but CG of any kind hasn't been done in a MLB debut since 2002, as far as I know. Shutout debuts are especially rare.

 

I will agree that Gardy's decision isn't a huge deal, but this accomplishment would have been pretty notable, and it would have put Andrew Albers' name into the record book (even if it was just somewhere in the back) -- a chance he may never get again. And for what? Because 105 pitches for 25 outs, followed by a four pitch walk, is somehow beyond the pale?

[LaBombo]

Have to take him out why? He had a ****ing shutout and was up by 7 runs! Yeah he was out of gas and struggling, that is why you keep him in a let him push through it. How is he or any pitcher going to learn to pitch when they are tired if Gardy/Andy don't let them? This isn't April or even late September. Let the kid work and have a shot.

In an organization that's probably only 2 or 3 more blown UCL's away from being the first franchise in baseball to require preemptive Tommy John surgery for pitchers when they're drafted, a little bit of caution could go a long way.

[drjim]

In an organization that's probably only 2 or 3 more blown UCL's away from being the first franchise in baseball to require preemptive Tommy John surgery for pitchers when they're drafted, a little bit of caution could go a long way.

 

I don't want to take your snark too seriously, but do you actually think the Twins have TJ surgery at a higher rate than the average franchise?

[LaBombo]

8/7/13 - Rookie Albers throws a complete game shutout in his MLB Debut!

 

8/12/13 - Albers not as sharp 2nd time out, scatters 9 hits in 4 2/3 innings.

 

8/17/13 - Albers shelled in shortest outing yet.

 

8/17/13 - Albers a last minute scratch after experiencing elbow tightness warming up

 

8/22/13 - Albers to skip a turn to rest sore elbow "a few days".

 

9/04/13 - Albers placed on 15 day DL - left elbow

 

11/24/13 - Albers' offseason workout pain leads to second opinion, TJ surgery; eyes 2015 return.

[LaBombo]

I don't want to take your snark too seriously, but do you actually think the Twins have TJ surgery at a higher rate than the average franchise?

Well, I do know for certain that they've been so bad at diagnosing and treating injuries and managing DL/no DL determinations that Terry Ryan was forced to briefly removed his "pretty good pitchers"/"meaningful games in September"/'remain calm, all is well' public relations mask to admit that they were in serious need of off-season evaluation.

 

And yes, I'm aware that the Twins' organizational rate for TJ surgery is roughly league average. But when you're a franchise that's prided itself on collecting pitching prospects who don't throw hard enough to break glass, then maybe you should be at or at least near the bottom of that list.

[notoriousgod71]

In an organization that's probably only 2 or 3 more blown UCL's away from being the first franchise in baseball to require preemptive Tommy John surgery for pitchers when they're drafted, a little bit of caution could go a long way.

 

Maybe all of this ridiculous caution is what is causing all these injuries.

 

You don't get stronger by doing something less. Let them pitch. If they're going to get injured they're going to get injured. Guys like Strasburg, Chamberlain, any Twins pitcher are babied to no end and they are injured all the time. Restricting pitch counts doesn't seem to be working. Arm injuries are at an all time high.

[notoriousgod71]

8/12/13 - Albers not as sharp 2nd time out, scatters 9 hits in 4 2/3 innings.

 

8/17/13 - Albers shelled in shortest outing yet.

 

8/17/13 - Albers a last minute scratch after experiencing elbow tightness warming up

 

8/22/13 - Albers to skip a turn to rest sore elbow "a few days".

 

9/04/13 - Albers placed on 15 day DL - left elbow

 

11/24/13 - Albers' offseason workout pain leads to second opinion, TJ surgery; eyes 2015 return.

 

11/25/13- Albers released and no one cares because he is a 29 year old rookie who easily threw the game of his life and is not part of this team's future.

[Nick Nelson]

Man, you guys are buzz kills.

[Marta Shearing]

Maybe all of this ridiculous caution is what is causing all these injuries.

 

You don't get stronger by doing something less. Let them pitch. If they're going to get injured they're going to get injured. Guys like Strasburg, Chamberlain, any Twins pitcher are babied to no end and they are injured all the time. Restricting pitch counts doesn't seem to be working. Arm injuries are at an all time high.

My heart leapt in my chest when I read this post. I firmly believe this to be true.

[AlwaysinModeration]

It's been a few years, but I recall reading some research on the reason 100 pitches has become the new vogue. There was pretty clear evidence that after hitting that count, in general, as you are more fatigued, your mechanics are more likely to break down. It is poor mechanics that lead to injury, when you do something that is slightly off from your repeatable motion.

 

This is very intuitive. And while it would have been great for Albers to get the CGSO, the fact that he issued his first walk and a four-pitch one to boot shows he was tiring and may have been losing his mechanics a bit. Add to that the adrenaline of trying to finish off his major league debut, it is very reasonable to suspect he could have easily tweaked something in the effort to get those last couple outs.

 

Is it likely? No. Was there some sort of guarantee that since he was over 100 pitches his arm was going to explode? Of course not. Could he have finished the game? Undoubtedly, even quite possibly with a shutout. Would it have been fun, and a bit historic? Sure. But I don't think it was a terrible decision.

 

I'm glad to have another player to root for these next couple months. Here's hoping there are a few more chances to debate a 9th-inning hook this year. Let's go AA!

[drjim]

Maybe all of this ridiculous caution is what is causing all these injuries.

 

You don't get stronger by doing something less. Let them pitch. If they're going to get injured they're going to get injured. Guys like Strasburg, Chamberlain, any Twins pitcher are babied to no end and they are injured all the time. Restricting pitch counts doesn't seem to be working. Arm injuries are at an all time high.

 

I doubt. These injuries happen because throwing a ball is so unnatural. Sports medicine is quite advanced and quite good at diagnosis so injuries are fixed quicker and more effectively with a much higher probability of effective return. So pitchers get surgery instead of trying to pitch with an injury.

[Major League Ready]

Man, you guys are buzz kills.

 

No kidding. Somehow people find a way to complain about a 7-0 shutout on a great debut performance. We should just be thrilled about the potential addition of a SP that can keep us in games as starved as we are for SP.

[ThePuck]

No kidding. Somehow people find a way to complain about a 7-0 shutout on a great debut performance. We should just be thrilled about the potential addition of a SP that can keep us in games as starved as we are for SP.

 

Did you read the OPs post? He asked whether or not he should have been allowed to try and complete the game. Discussing whether or not he should have been allowed to complete the game is staying precisely on target.