Examining the Deadline Pivot From Bryan Abreu to Jeff Hoffman

[TheLeviathan]

37 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I'm not betting my house on it either but I'm perfectly happy letting them surprise me. I've been surprised too many times to write off the possibility.  

 

A perfectly cromulent fan perspective.  Not so much for a front office, :)

[Riverbrian]

25 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

A perfectly cromulent fan perspective.  Not so much for a front office, :)

I had to look up what Cromulent meant. 

[nicksaviking]

53 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I had to look up what Cromulent meant. 

It's Princess Leia's home planet, duh.

[Riverbrian]

5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

It's Princess Leia's home planet, duh.

Love the Cromulent hairdo. 

[killercarewoliva]

5 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

The Twins should definitely look to trade Larnach this winter, but I don't get why HE specifically is the logjam. Bell, Gray and Kreidler are also not long term pieces and unlike Larnach, are not hitting well. You could easily add Martin and Roden to that list as well.

I think injuries have something to do with these players staying in AAA.

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, HarmonK03 said:

This is where I don't think Zoll is up to the job, you can't have a quarter of your forty man roster be outfielders.  Even moving Wallner for a bucket of balls would have helped clear this a little bit.  But guys in St. Paul have to play or their development will stagnate.

And if Zoll had dumped Wallner just to open a spot he would have been pilloried for that too. I think Zoll deserves a little more time to reshape the 40-man than a short run-up to the season after a shakeup in senior leadership and a trade deadline window where his priority had to be addressing immediate needs.

And guys will stagnate less in AAA if the team would just call up someone rather than running around with a Tristan Gray. I suspect the twins 40-man will get some more significant tailoring in the offseason.

[HarmonK03]

13 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

And if Zoll had dumped Wallner just to open a spot he would have been pilloried for that too. I think Zoll deserves a little more time to reshape the 40-man than a short run-up to the season after a shakeup in senior leadership and a trade deadline window where his priority had to be addressing immediate needs.

And guys will stagnate less in AAA if the team would just call up someone rather than running around with a Tristan Gray. I suspect the twins 40-man will get some more significant tailoring in the offseason.

I think Zoll had great input into this roster during the offseason.  He was Falvey's #2 and was not a passive bystander in preparing for the season.  We will never know where he and Falvey may have had disagreements but the only change is who has the final say.

You are right about Gray, but the numbers still say something has to give in the offseason.

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

It's Princess Leia's home planet, duh.

No it's not. It's a round pastry with fruit and icing on top, isn't it? Goes well with a strong French Roast. 

[lecroy24fan]

5 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

From my point of view, when the owner stepped in and nixed the Larnach for Abreu deal, the Twins FO should have been smart enough to pivot to Spencer Arrighetti, a 26 year old RH SP with upside potential.  I would have still made the deal for Hoffman, but Arrighetti would have provided a similar arm to Matthews and he is still pre-arb controlable.

The Blue Jays swooped in and traded Dalton Varsho straight up for Arrighetti.  Varsho is a far better Glove than Larnach, but Larnach would have been the far superior Bat.  And the Astros needed a BAT more than they needed a Glove.  

 

 

Astros would not have taken Larnach for Spencer. They needed a CF badly.

[IndianaTwin]

7 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

I read at mlb.com that the Hoffman trade also included Toronto received "international bonus pool space".  What does this mean?

Teams are allotted an amount they can spend in giving bonuses to international signings. They can trade their allotment to another team in increments of $250,000. Though not common, it happens on a somewhat routine basis.  

[ashbury]

7 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

Trading your "best pitching prospect" doesn't seem as bad when you consider that guys like Matthews, Prielipp and Rojas, even Festa and Abel are not "prospects" by virtue of being a few innings or service days past the rookie definition.   

I've seen occasional suggestions to list a franchise's top players under age X (25, say), as a better gauge of their future fortunes.

[JADBP]

This is just nothing more than Toronto swooping in and making a sucker trade with the Twins and winning a great pitcher.  Sounds like Varland.  We will rue this deal in about 3 years....long after Hoffman is a faded memory, every time we have to face Hill in Toronto!  Sucks.....but the Twins are just suckers to Toronto's trade offers.  What is it about Toronto that the Twins just keep losing trades!

[JADBP]

if it comes down to losing Larnach or Dasan Hill, it is Larnach every time!  Dangit! Maybe they should have offered to throw in Wallner as sweetener to get the job done.  Losing Hill hurts...even if we get Hoffman next year too.

And, don't forget, this is all Falvey's fault.  We had the best bullpen in all of MLB last year, and what we got in return is just not stacking up...I love Taj Bradley...but then.....after that?  Hmmm, not as much.  And, we still have a mess of a roster--no good SS, 1Bman, THREE catchers, and a bunch of lame ducks blocking the real talent in the outfield.  Thanks, Falvey for a fine mess.  

All in all, I would give Zoll a C grade for this trade season. Yeah, he almost fixed the bull pen--still some holes, but much better after Falvey's disaster.  But he addressed none of the other holes in the org and we still are holding Larnach, Jeffers and Bell, none of which are long for this team.  Now he can almost fix this by bringing up Jenkins, Cullpepper and Emma.  And, put Marek Houston on a fast track!  

[TopGunn#22]

Well...Jenkins just mashed 2 HR's for St. Paul last night.  The longer Buxton is out, the more it looks like they could use a "spark."  I would also argue, even once Byron comes back, he should DH plenty of times and maybe play LF (with Jenkins in CF).  Last night's win was a nice comeback, but once again the bats were struggling mightily,  One run after 7 innings and that run came on a Lewis solo HR.  

If the Twins are REALLY competing, as an organization, for a playoff spot THIS year...it's kind of hard to deny it's time to call up Jenkins and Culpepper, DFA Gray and send Roden back down to St. Paul.  It's August 7th.  Every game counts at this point and going forward.  I'm not sure what the advantage, service time wise, that holding Jenkins and Culpepper back has.  But I think the Twins need to make these moves and get those kids in the lineup.  

[terrydactyls]

16 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

Teams are allotted an amount they can spend in giving bonuses to international signings. They can trade their allotment to another team in increments of $250,000. Though not common, it happens on a somewhat routine basis.  

Instead of "space", should MLB.com have used either "money" or "bonus"?

[bean5302]

19 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

And if Zoll had dumped Wallner just to open a spot he would have been pilloried for that too. I think Zoll deserves a little more time to reshape the 40-man than a short run-up to the season after a shakeup in senior leadership and a trade deadline window where his priority had to be addressing immediate needs.

And guys will stagnate less in AAA if the team would just call up someone rather than running around with a Tristan Gray. I suspect the twins 40-man will get some more significant tailoring in the offseason.

Pretty sure this has been pointed out at least 100x, but he's had YEARS in the GM role. Even if Falvey had a strategy that overreached into Zoll's role on paper, if Zoll couldn't develop a philosophy during his 6 years or whatever with the Twins and his 1.5yrs as a GM after taking over from Levine, he's totally incompetent.

[jmlease1]

6 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Pretty sure this has been pointed out at least 100x, but he's had YEARS in the GM role. Even if Falvey had a strategy that overreached into Zoll's role on paper, if Zoll couldn't develop a philosophy during his 6 years or whatever with the Twins and his 1.5yrs as a GM after taking over from Levine, he's totally incompetent.

Have you really never experienced it when your boss changes and the new guy wants to go in a different direction? The difference between being the head of the division vs still reporting to someone else?

It's sports so fans love to declare the GM incompetent and expect instant gratification, but...whatever.

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, jmlease1 said:

Have you really never experienced it when your boss changes and the new guy wants to go in a different direction? The difference between being the head of the division vs still reporting to someone else?

It's sports so fans love to declare the GM incompetent and expect instant gratification, but...whatever.

Sing it, brother! Let's give Zoll a chance to make his own mark. I'm keeping my pitchfork in the garage so its handy but I'm going to wait on re-ordering tar.  Amazon can get it to me overnight so I should be good. 

[twinstalker]

I wouldn't be too sure about Crane nixing the Abreu deal.  I think it's more likely Dana Brown had buyer's remorse, and it would make him look really bad to back out of a deal he'd agreed to.  Bring in the owner at that point to be the bad guy.

I highly doubt the owner is going to involve himself in a platoon player for setup reliever swap on his own.