Ryan is hurt

[Mike Sixel]

I mean, I'd have dealt him in the off season.......sigh. 

[Mike Sixel]

The team knew this, and still traded for the present year, and not the future? Sigh. 

[ashbury]

17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

The team knew this, and still traded for the present year, and not the future? Sigh. 

A lot to unpack here.

1. If the team "knows", and they don't share the information to trading partners, do they want a reputation for trading damaged goods?
2. If the trading team does know, won't the players offered in trade be much reduced in value?
3. If we're talking about unknowns, and the Twins want to trade because they think the "odds" of a Ryan injury are high, won't the other team have their estimation methods too, and again reduce their offer?
4. What's the guarantee that the players received in trade don't get injured too? Maybe we get the next Tyler Mahle.

There's a great deal beneath the surface of "we shoulda traded him before now."

[The Great Hambino]

Every time Tom starts getting really proud of himself, a starting pitcher goes down

[Mike Sixel]

It is 100% possible Ryan hid this.

Ash missed my point....if they knew Ryan was hurt, they 100% should not have been buyers by trading prospects. 

[jctwins]

6 minutes ago, ashbury said:

A lot to unpack here.

1. If the team "knows", and they don't share the information to trading partners, do they want a reputation for trading damaged goods?
2. If the trading team does know, won't the players offered in trade be much reduced in value?
3. If we're talking about unknowns, and the Twins want to trade because they think the "odds" of a Ryan injury are high, won't the other team have their estimation methods too, and again reduce their offer?
4. What's the guarantee that the players received in trade don't get injured too? Maybe we get the next Tyler Mahle.

There's a great deal beneath the surface of "we shoulda traded him before now."

This is why guys have to pass physicals after a trade. It would have been unwound, which would have been an embarrassment. To the original comment, this does make a decision to add for this season more questionable, especially when they know Buxton is going to be a question mark the rest of this season, too. 

I also think it explains why the trading was pretty light either way.

[USAFChief]

Color me skeptical the team knew of an actual injury and still sent him out to the mound last night. 

[thelanges5]

23 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It is 100% possible Ryan hid this.

Ash missed my point....if they knew Ryan was hurt, they 100% should not have been buyers by trading prospects. 

He did hide the groin injury, a couple years ago. Thought he learned his lesson?

[ashbury]

24 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

It is 100% possible Ryan hid this.

Ash missed my point....if they knew Ryan was hurt, they 100% should not have been buyers by trading prospects. 

Yeah, I hit submit and then had second thoughts about maybe the question was whether to acquire talent at the deadline. The first of the two posts, rehashing past trading decisions, probably threw me.

Buxton and Ryan both being question marks are not good news.  Still, a game or so out of the wildcard, I'm not too worked up over the prospect capital expended.  Prospect capital dies on the vine every year, and is replaced by new draft picks and so on.  Of course it's important that the talent evaluators not completely whiff, when another team starts to show interest in one of our young'uns.

[Linus]

Hopefully he just has some sort of muscle strain that will heal quickly. I get what Mike is saying: there was risk in not trading Joe at his highest value. The risk that his performance would fall off or that he would get hurt. Neither are far fetched at this point. 

[jorgenswest]

Am I understanding that trading Ryan at the 2025 deadline was his highest value and he should have been traded then. If not then he should been traded this winter where his value would still near its peak.

I have a hard time seeing how this strategy is going to lead to a successful team in the playoffs. Out of the 6 guaranteed years of service time the first few are developing. Ryan wasn’t ready to be a playoff starter in 2023. At best the Twins get the two seasons of the 6 where he is ready to make ann  and this is only if they hold off trading Ryan at the 2025 deadline and trade him in the offseason . Otherwise it is only 1 season of playoff control.

Can I conclude then that we should trade Bradley at the next deadline or certainly next off season? He could get injured in 2028 after all. Hopefully the Twins can make the playoffs in this small window. If not maybe they can make it in Abel’s window down the road.

I hear arguments about the Brewers but they kelp Burnes through all but his last season of control. The Tigers went further with Skubal. The Marlins have frequently gone with this trade high at 2 or 2+ years of service time strategy. They have traded some good pitchers in Cabrera, Luzardo, Rogers and Lopez. The churning has kept them around .500 in three of the last four years.

[Mike Sixel]

7 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Am I understanding that trading Ryan at the 2025 deadline was his highest value and he should have been traded then. If not then he should been traded this winter where his value would still near its peak.

I have a hard time seeing how this strategy is going to lead to a successful team in the playoffs. Out of the 6 guaranteed years of service time the first few are developing. Ryan wasn’t ready to be a playoff starter in 2023. At best the Twins get the two seasons of the 6 where he is ready to make ann  and this is only if they hold off trading Ryan at the 2025 deadline and trade him in the offseason . Otherwise it is only 1 season of playoff control.

Can I conclude then that we should trade Bradley at the next deadline or certainly next off season? He could get injured in 2028 after all. Hopefully the Twins can make the playoffs in this small window. If not maybe they can make it in Abel’s window down the road.

I hear arguments about the Brewers but they kelp Burnes through all but his last season of control. The Tigers went further with Skubal. The Marlins have frequently gone with this trade high at 2 or 2+ years of service time strategy. They have traded some good pitchers in Cabrera, Luzardo, Rogers and Lopez. The churning has kept them around .500 in three of the last four years.

No chance I trade a guy with 2.5 years left unless my team is utterly barren of talent. 

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

No chance I trade a guy with 2.5 years left unless my team is utterly barren of talent. 

But 2 years left and now you're second guessing the Twins on Ryan.

[TheLeviathan]

Woof.

[Woof Bronzer]

23 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Woof.

You said it!

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

But 2 years left and now you're second guessing the Twins on Ryan.

I'm second guessing being buyers if they knew. Did you read what I wrote at all? And, it's one year and seven starts. If he's healthy. 

Edit.... My bad. I read that wrong.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

But 2 years left and now you're second guessing the Twins on Ryan.

Ah, yes, I did say that. But then, I didn't believe in this roster at all. Also, Pablo hurt. And they didn't spend any money to get better. 

[Linus]

2 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

Am I understanding that trading Ryan at the 2025 deadline was his highest value and he should have been traded then. If not then he should been traded this winter where his value would still near its peak.

I have a hard time seeing how this strategy is going to lead to a successful team in the playoffs. Out of the 6 guaranteed years of service time the first few are developing. Ryan wasn’t ready to be a playoff starter in 2023. At best the Twins get the two seasons of the 6 where he is ready to make ann  and this is only if they hold off trading Ryan at the 2025 deadline and trade him in the offseason . Otherwise it is only 1 season of playoff control.

Can I conclude then that we should trade Bradley at the next deadline or certainly next off season? He could get injured in 2028 after all. Hopefully the Twins can make the playoffs in this small window. If not maybe they can make it in Abel’s window down the road.

I hear arguments about the Brewers but they kelp Burnes through all but his last season of control. The Tigers went further with Skubal. The Marlins have frequently gone with this trade high at 2 or 2+ years of service time strategy. They have traded some good pitchers in Cabrera, Luzardo, Rogers and Lopez. The churning has kept them around .500 in three of the last four years.

I assume you were referencing my post. When I said highest value I meant highest value he has left in his team control. As far as when / if you trade players my view is each situation is different. If the Twins were positioned to make a deep playoff run I would absolutely advocate to keep Joe and Jeffers. My view is they are not. Furthermore I don’t believe this current lineup has enough talent to make a run next year either. I also factor in a potential labor disruption in my calculation - perhaps I shouldn’t. I’m optimistic the next wave could be considerably better but that will likely be in 2028 when Joe won’t be here. The players we would have received for Joe and Jeffers could be important pieces in developing a winning lineup. From reading your many posts I understand you feel differently and value the current season more than something down the road. I understand that as I watch nearly every game win or lose. 

[howeda7]

8 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Color me skeptical the team knew of an actual injury and still sent him out to the mound last night. 

He pretty much said the same thing last start, in his Joe Ryan way. It's been obvious since the Cleveland game he's hurt in some capacity. 

[Cory Engelhardt]

6 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

No chance I trade a guy with 2.5 years left unless my team is utterly barren of talent. 

I do if you determine that player isn’t getting extended and he won’t be there in your winning window (if you are trying to win.) But I can also see why they didn’t last year too

[mnfireman]

https://x.com/i/status/2085034581833498710