You’re not a GM. You Shouldn’t Want to Trade Ryan Jeffers.

[Greggory Masterson]

9 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

1. When have I ever said anything about readers paying anyone's bills before that specific comment? Not saying it's impossible that I did, but I have no recollection of it. The point is that if we all agreed and people didn't come to this site to have their fill of Twins centric debate, the site would get significantly less traffic and they wouldn't be able to pay people to write articles. It's generally not a great strategy to tell a large segment of your customer base they're doing it wrong. See, St Peter, Dave and his never ending "fans are just bad at being fans and it's their fault we don't sell more tickets." Not a great business plan.

2. I actually don't think anyone simply saying "don't tell me how to fan" is lacking in anything. I most definitely use more words than most people, and tend to overexplain my stances. But "don't tell me how to enjoy things" is 100% enough of a retort. It's none of your business how anyone enjoys anything. As long as we're not hurting anyone, we can enjoy the Twins in whatever fashion we like and you don't get to tell us we're not enjoying them correctly. "Don't tell me how to fan" is absolutely a good enough stand alone statement.

3. There's no cognitive dissonance in me having opinions about the Twins best path forward. Also no illusion of control. Whether or not they trade Ryan Jeffers won't affect how I enjoy the rest of this season. Again, that's your mistake here. You've decided you know how I enjoy the Twins and what drives my enjoyment. I have no problem separating what I would do, what I think they should do, what I think they will do, and my for fun debates with others (on TD or anywhere else) with my enjoyment of the team. I'm watching the game while I type this and there isn't 1 part of me wishing they'd lose so there's a better chance they trade guys, thinking "man it's cool they're winning, but I'm still so worried about whether or not they'll trade Jeffers I just can't enjoy it," or any other negative things besides the fact that the pen is making this game much closer than it should be.

4. I don't think those articles are meaningfully similar to this one. They may be your armchair psychologists attempt at explaining some things in relation to sport, but they aren't telling people that if they don't enjoy things the way you do, they aren't really enjoying it.

Again, you've come at this from a false premise of you knowing the way to enjoy being a fan. There is no 1 way to enjoy being a fan. Some of us enjoying being arm chair GMs while following a season doesn't mean we aren't enjoying the season every bit as much as we would if we had no thoughts or opinions or wishes on what the team would do. I can wish they'd trade Jeffers and Ryan and still wish for them to win out and enjoy when they do well. They don't have to be separate things in everyone's mind. The cognitive dissonance you may feel isn't present in me. I'm sorry your enjoyment is so attached to the team doing what you wish they'd do. Mine isn't.

1) You also said it here, at least: 

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

and making these comments is what allows you to get paid to write articles about a baseball team

And is that not what you're doing in these comments, disagreeing with me? You're pointing at a specific disagreement that we're apparently not allowed to have. This is no different than any other disagreement about baseball. Fan habits are in-bounds.

2) I assume that we're also going to disagree about this, but "Let people enjoy things" has never held weight for me, either. It's just another thought-terminating cliché. I have no issue defending my own tastes or believing that simply enjoying something isn't enough to justify it.

3) It appears you don't fall under the umbrella of this gripe, so I don't really have a response for this point, other than that it seems like in an effort to dispute what I'm saying here, you might see me painting with a larger brush than I intended to. Or (maybe more likely) I wasn't clear enough.

4) I'm not sure, again, that I ever said that if you're not enjoying it the same way I'm enjoying it, you're not enjoying it at all. Yes, hoping that the Twins sell off and duck out of the playoff race is going to diminish your enjoyment of the season, but at no point did I say you won't enjoy anything. If I was writing at the time, I would have also said the same thing about droves of people pining for the Twins to trade Correa in 2022 when they were in first place. All three articles were about how fans get in their own way to make their experiences worse.

5) I have to chuckle when I say this, but hear me out. You might not notice the cognitive dissonance, but your brain might.

[chpettit19]

25 minutes ago, Greggory Masterson said:

1) You also said it here, at least: 

And is that not what you're doing in these comments, disagreeing with me? You're pointing at a specific disagreement that we're apparently not allowed to have. This is no different than any other disagreement about baseball. Fan habits are in-bounds.

2) I assume that we're also going to disagree about this, but "Let people enjoy things" has never held weight for me, either. It's just another thought-terminating cliché. I have no issue defending my own tastes or believing that simply enjoying something isn't enough to justify it.

3) It appears you don't fall under the umbrella of this gripe, so I don't really have a response for this point, other than that it seems like in an effort to dispute what I'm saying here, you might see me painting with a larger brush than I intended to. Or (maybe more likely) I wasn't clear enough.

4) I'm not sure, again, that I ever said that if you're not enjoying it the same way I'm enjoying it, you're not enjoying it at all. Yes, hoping that the Twins sell off and duck out of the playoff race is going to diminish your enjoyment of the season, but at no point did I say you won't enjoy anything. If I was writing at the time, I would have also said the same thing about droves of people pining for the Twins to trade Correa in 2022 when they were in first place. All three articles were about how fans get in their own way to make their experiences worse.

5) I have to chuckle when I say this, but hear me out. You might not notice the cognitive dissonance, but your brain might.

1. That's the same comment. I only made 1 comment in this thread about you getting paid to write articles about the team. Maybe I said it in another thread that I don't remember, but I only said it once here. The word "also" appears to be misused here.

And, no, I don't think it's just like any other disagreement. This "disagreement" is you telling me, and others, how we feel. You don't get to argue with that. That's the entire point here. You've decided you know what's best for the rest of us and it's to enjoy what you enjoy, how you enjoy it.

2-5. Again, I think you've out kicked your armchair psychologist coverage here. No, hoping they sell certain pieces doesn't diminish my enjoyment. And selling off pieces doesn't equal ducking out of the playoff race. See 2024 Detroit Tigers for example. But the real point is that, apparently, if YOU hoped they'd trade Jeffers it'd diminish YOUR enjoyment of the season. And you've then projected that on to everyone who does hope they trade him. I mean, if trading Ryan Jeffers (a player that missed 2 months of the season already, by the way) means they're "ducking out of the playoff race" they aren't really in the playoff race to start with.

Your premise is flawed. It assumes a lot about other people that you can't assume. Like that we can't separate our opinions about how to run a team we have no part of and our enjoyment of their performance. My point about nobody writing a story like this last year was that the team had almost the exact same record as it does this year and none of you were telling us we shouldn't want the team to sell because we wouldn't actually enjoy the rest of the season if they did. You weren't clamoring for us to want a sub-.500 team to hold expiring contracts then. They were only 5 games out of the wildcard on this date last year. And if they hadn't sold, they wouldn't have Rojas, Abel, Bradley, or Roden. 4 guys who've played at least somewhat of a role of them being anywhere near .500 now. Why weren't you clamoring for us to hold on to Bader last year? Shouldn't we have all wanted them to stay in the fight then? Or, and hear me out, is this actually just about you enjoying the season more this year so you've decided to tell the rest of us we should think the same as you?

[Woof Bronzer]

1 hour ago, Greggory Masterson said:

Yes, precisely. There's nothing wrong in and of itself with putting on your GM hat as a fan. But when you get to the point where your favorite team is in position to make a playoff push, and your thought is that they should try to make themselves worse mid-season, I think you've lost sight of something.

I'm not against trading Jeffers by any means. I have no personal attachment to him. I have no interest in extending him for the money he'll get. If they trade him, I'll understand the reasoning and hope that they get good value for him. It might be the smartest thing to do at the deadline. But fans shouldn't be clamoring for it to happen.

This is a lot of words to type in under two seconds; good on ya.

 

Shaming?

To answer your question: why can't a man care for his fellow man? I want the best for everyone.

What does "care for fellow man" have to do with telling someone how they should think?  

[Greggory Masterson]

6 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

1. That's the same comment. I only made 1 comment in this thread about you getting paid to write articles about the team. Maybe I said it in another thread that I don't remember, but I only said it once here. The word "also" appears to be misused here.

And, no, I don't think it's just like any other disagreement. This "disagreement" is you telling me, and others, how we feel. You don't get to argue with that. That's the entire point here. You've decided you know what's best for the rest of us and it's to enjoy what you enjoy, how you enjoy it.

2-5. Again, I think you've out kicked your armchair psychologist coverage here. No, hoping they sell certain pieces doesn't diminish my enjoyment. And selling off pieces doesn't equal ducking out of the playoff race. See 2024 Detroit Tigers for example. But the real point is that, apparently, if YOU hoped they'd trade Jeffers it'd diminish YOUR enjoyment of the season. And you've then projected that on to everyone who does hope they trade him. I mean, if trading Ryan Jeffers (a player that missed 2 months of the season already, by the way) means they're "ducking out of the playoff race" they aren't really in the playoff race to start with.

Your premise is flawed. It assumes a lot about other people that you can't assume. Like that we can't separate our opinions about how to run a team we have no part of and our enjoyment of their performance. My point about nobody writing a story like this last year was that the team had almost the exact same record as it does this year and none of you were telling us we shouldn't want the team to sell because we wouldn't actually enjoy the rest of the season if they did. You weren't clamoring for us to want a sub-.500 team to hold expiring contracts then. They were only 5 games out of the wildcard on this date last year. And if they hadn't sold, they wouldn't have Rojas, Abel, Bradley, or Roden. 4 guys who've played at least somewhat of a role of them being anywhere near .500 now. Why weren't you clamoring for us to hold on to Bader last year? Shouldn't we have all wanted them to stay in the fight then? Or, and hear me out, is this actually just about you enjoying the season more this year so you've decided to tell the rest of us we should think the same as you?

For someone who's very hung up on the idea that I have no right to "tell you how to feel" (something I've never done; I've encouraged you to evaluate your beliefs) and keep throwing out "armchair psychologist," you're doing a lot of character analysis in this back-and-forth. Which, frankly, I have no problem with.

I've repeatedly said, in these replies, and in the original piece, that trading Jeffers is probably the smart thing to do. I said, in this piece, that I'm guilty of going GM-brain. My thesis is that that's not good for you. So, clearly, yes, that is my take. You don't need to read that back to me.

I'm frankly not sure how we got into this rabbit hole with some of what you've written here, and I want to avoid arguing for things that I don't believe in reaction to being accused of them. So I'm going to leave it at the above statement for now.

As for your last point, as I said, I would have written the same at the 2022 deadline. I did not write a piece like this at the 2025 deadline because that was a materially different situation than today or 2022. Instead, off the top of my head, I know I wrote a piece in response to fans saying that Derek Falvey shouldn't be trusted to handle the deadline because no one knew if he'd have the job after this year (I argued that he should be trusted, because it's his job, and if he's in the seat now, he needs to make the deals he sees as correct). I was in favor of selling because that team was 5 games out of a playoff spot, as you've pointed out. A week from now, if the Twins are 5 games out of a playoff spot, I will also be in favor of pulling the plug on this season. But hoping that the team loses so that they aren't tempted to go for it, or getting excited about flipping Jeffers for a prospect or two in the middle of a playoff race, is misaligned.

[Woof Bronzer]

40 minutes ago, Greggory Masterson said:

1) You also said it here, at least: 

And is that not what you're doing in these comments, disagreeing with me? You're pointing at a specific disagreement that we're apparently not allowed to have. This is no different than any other disagreement about baseball. Fan habits are in-bounds.

2) I assume that we're also going to disagree about this, but "Let people enjoy things" has never held weight for me, either. It's just another thought-terminating cliché. I have no issue defending my own tastes or believing that simply enjoying something isn't enough to justify it.

3) It appears you don't fall under the umbrella of this gripe, so I don't really have a response for this point, other than that it seems like in an effort to dispute what I'm saying here, you might see me painting with a larger brush than I intended to. Or (maybe more likely) I wasn't clear enough.

4) I'm not sure, again, that I ever said that if you're not enjoying it the same way I'm enjoying it, you're not enjoying it at all. Yes, hoping that the Twins sell off and duck out of the playoff race is going to diminish your enjoyment of the season, but at no point did I say you won't enjoy anything. If I was writing at the time, I would have also said the same thing about droves of people pining for the Twins to trade Correa in 2022 when they were in first place. All three articles were about how fans get in their own way to make their experiences worse.

5) I have to chuckle when I say this, but hear me out. You might not notice the cognitive dissonance, but your brain might.

Dude.  The arrogance and condescension is off the charts.  I don't know what you think you are accomplishing here, but unless it's "come off like an even bigger a-hole", it ain't working.  

Free piece of advice:  get over yourself.  You're just a fan with an opinion, like everyone else.  

[Greggory Masterson]

22 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

What does "care for fellow man" have to do with telling someone how they should think?  

Surely we agree that there are good thoughts and bad thoughts. We're just in disagreement about which ones are bad.

EDIT:

1 minute ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Free piece of advice:  get over yourself.

How is this different than telling me what to think? This looks like care for your fellow man to me.

[Woof Bronzer]

Just now, Greggory Masterson said:

Surely we agree that there are good thoughts and bad thoughts. We're just in disagreement about which ones are bad.

You aren't answering the question Greggggg!  What does all of this have to do with telling other people how to think?  I want to know why you care so much about how strangers form opinions.    

 

[1985Fan]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Nothing wrong with that except I think they miss out on the good baseball in front of them."

 

3 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

"I think there is a large group of baseball fans into the arm chair GM game more so than watching the current team. Call it looking at what could be instead of what is. Nothing wrong with that except I think they miss out on the good baseball in front of them."

Here's the thing about this comment that you made in the other post. It isn't an argument. I don't have a "side of the argument." Because it isn't one. Your "opinion" was a comment on how other people think and feel. There's nothing to like or dislike about the opinion itself. It's either right or wrong. And I'm telling you, for many of us in the group you describe, you're wrong. You don't get to argue about how I, or anyone, enjoys the Twins or anything else. 

That's the issue with the comment like "they miss out on the good baseball in front of them" and the article in general. You don't know how anyone enjoys the baseball in front of them. The author doesn't know how any of us enjoy the Twins. All the article is is a complaint that he has to see tweets or posts or whatever that differ from his and he says we're all wrong if we don't just think the way he does. Author has the real simple option of just not taking money from twinsdaily.com to write articles and to change his social media interactions. And you both have the real simple option of simply not worrying about how any of us enjoy the Twins.

The article and the clipped part of your other comment aren't arguments about trading Jeffers or Ryan or extending Buxton or drafting Lackey or anything else. They're statements telling other people how to live their lives, think, or feel. You can't tell me I'm wrong for how I go about being a fan. Just like the author can't. Nothing to argue about because you don't get to tell anyone what they enjoy and what they don't. Just like none of us get to tell you you can only enjoy the Twins if you enjoy them the way we do.

Yes, my argument was exactly about win now vs build for next year in regards to Jeffers and Ryan trades. That was the whole point of this OP! I didn’t say anything about Buxton or Lackey!! I also stated “I think” when talking about armchair GM’s, which very clearly is an opinion rather than telling someone “how to live their lives, think, or feel”. Thats one huge leap you made there. I guess you took my opinion personal. It wasn’t meant to tell anyone how to feel, or watch, or think about the Twins. You threw in the insult and personal attack “the Pohlads love you though”. Or I guess you think that’s an insult. 
For a Community Moderator, you seem thin skinned. Instead of moderating, you’re throwing gasoline on the fire!

[Woof Bronzer]

3 minutes ago, Greggory Masterson said:

 

How is this different than telling me what to think? This looks like care for your fellow man to me.

"Get over yourself" is advice that I'm offering to you, so that it may help you, a fellow man, in your life.  I care about you, Gregggggg!  In my experience, telling others how smart you are and how stupid they are if they have differing beliefs, is a good way to ensure you will have a lonely existence.  But hey, looks like it's working out great for you!

[Greggory Masterson]

3 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

You aren't answering the question Greggggg!  What does all of this have to do with telling other people how to think?  I want to know why you care so much about how strangers form opinions.    

 

To answer your question, we both acknowledge that there are good thoughts and bad thoughts to have. If you care for your fellow man, you want them to think the good thoughts and not the bad thoughts. I think we can agree on that. You yourself told me that I should get over myself, which is you saying, "It's better for you to not have this opinion." The disagreement is which thoughts fall into Bad Thought territory. Which is fine; I'm generally happy to have that conversation. But it's very clear that everyone has some range of thoughts that they think they should correct others about.

[Greggory Masterson]

We're getting to the point where these discussions aren't bearing much fruit in either direction, so I'm going to make the decision to stop going back and forth, as much as I dearly love the sport of argument. I apologize for my roll in lowering the discourse in these comments this afternoon.

But anyway, earnestly, whether anyone hated or loved this piece (and whether or not that leaves a lasting impression of me on you, negative or positive), thank you for reading it. And thank you for caring enough about your Minnesota Twins to get annoyed with me over it, if that is your reaction. See you sometime next week!

[chpettit19]

33 minutes ago, Greggory Masterson said:

But hoping that the team loses so that they aren't tempted to go for it, or getting excited about flipping Jeffers for a prospect or two in the middle of a playoff race, is misaligned.

And this is the crux of it. You haven't framed things in a way that suggests you're only talking about people who outwardly hope the Twins lose so they can trade Jeffers. You've framed it as anybody who wants to trade Jeffers hopes the Twins lose. But there is a difference between wanting them to flip Jeffers (I have no problem admitting I want them to flip Jeffers and Ryan no matter how things go between now and the deadline) and hoping the team loses so they do flip Jeffers. You haven't made that distinction so it comes across as you telling everyone who wants to see Jeffers flipped from a team that has been at (not above, at) .500 for 1 day since they were 12-12 that they're bad fans and they don't understand their own enjoyment levels.

If you're only talking about people actively cheering for Twins losses, you've written an article for what 1-5% of Twins fans? Feels like a waste of time, but you do you.

[Woof Bronzer]

Just now, Greggory Masterson said:

To answer your question, we both acknowledge that there are good thoughts and bad thoughts to have. If you care for your fellow man, you want them to think the good thoughts and not the bad thoughts. I think we can agree on that. You yourself told me that I should get over myself, which is you saying, "It's better for you to not have this opinion." The disagreement is which thoughts fall into Bad Thought territory. Which is fine; I'm generally happy to have that conversation. But it's very clear that everyone has some range of thoughts that they think they should correct others about.

I care for fellow man enough to trust fellow man to have their own thoughts and opinions, and not obsess over whether their thoughts are good or bad.  Telling people to just think good thoughts, where "good" is defined solely by you, is bizarre, antisocial behavior.  Goodbye, Gregggggggg.  

[Vanimal46]

“You’re not a GM, Coach, or Player. You shouldn’t have an opinion about this team”

I finished your next article headline Gregg 

[chpettit19]

19 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

 

Yes, my argument was exactly about win now vs build for next year in regards to Jeffers and Ryan trades. That was the whole point of this OP! I didn’t say anything about Buxton or Lackey!! I also stated “I think” when talking about armchair GM’s, which very clearly is an opinion rather than telling someone “how to live their lives, think, or feel”. Thats one huge leap you made there. I guess you took my opinion personal. It wasn’t meant to tell anyone how to feel, or watch, or think about the Twins. You threw in the insult and personal attack “the Pohlads love you though”. Or I guess you think that’s an insult. 
For a Community Moderator, you seem thin skinned. Instead of moderating, you’re throwing gasoline on the fire!

It isn't a huge leap. I'm sorry if I've come across stronger than you'd like or I meant. You made a statement about how you "think" people think and feel. I informed you that you were wrong and assuming how other people feel just because they don't do things the way you do, or have the same opinions as you, is a bad road to take.

Not thinned skinned, but, yes, I'll openly debate on the forums with others and state my thoughts and opinions. The "Pohlads love you" comment isn't an insult, or wasn't meant to be one, it was a joke. I apologize if it came across as mean spirited. I'm not trying to throw gasoline on any fire, but I will continue to respond to comments (or entire articles) about how people "fan" by telling the people who write them that they should watch their own bobber and not assume what other people feeling.

[DocBauer]

Greg, I'm with you. 100% overall. Winning games, and making the playoffs, or even make a run for the playoffs, is a hell of a lot more fun than complacency. 

I don't want my Twins to be stupid when it's obvious they should do something different. But I applaud the idea of a couple small deals when applicable, like in this season, to help the team along.

But part of what I love about TD is the ability for others to offer contrary opinions, even when they don't align with my opinion, LOL. And really, I don't want to sound condescending...that's not my intent, I also vent at times...but I do feel bad for some fans who can't seem to appreciate the idea of the Twins chasing something worthwhile. Just my opinion. 

I have been a long supporter of Jeffers. I've always believed his greatest value is how he handles the staff. While he's sacrificed some power, I think experience and adjustments have made him a more complete hitter. And I really don't expect a major regression on his part. No wonder so many teams are interested in acquiring him.

While I wouldn't want the Twins to make it a habit of holding on to a pending FA for too long instead of cashing in potential trade value, I can see legitimate reasons to just keep Jeffers for the rest of the season.

Did I mention making the playoffs, or even chasing a spot, is more fun than not? Personally, I'd keep him for the 2026 run and offer him the QO. If he accepts, you keep him for 2027 and give Lackey the opportunity to MAYBE be ready for 2028. And considering how low the payroll is, they could afford him if he accepts. (Remember, Larnach and Bell gone adds another $12M to the 2027 payroll, pending raises). And if he declines, you get the extra pick.

No matter when he's gone, I'm going to miss him.

But considering the fact that the Twins could "absorb" his loss because they have competent catching without him, I can see reasons to trade him for a solid haul as a solid sell/buy option. IF they sell on Jeffers, I like Seattle as a partner for Hancock, Kirby, or Woo and a solid BP arm by adding on one of about 3 OF options and maybe a lower level prospect. That helps both teams.

The Twins end up with a solid mid rotation starter that helps NOW, and the next couple of seasons, plus a solid BP arm. (There are various options so I'm not naming a particular player). Seattle gets Jeffers for NOW,  maybe Mendez, for example, and the future if not immediate help, and a decent prospect in the 20's. Win-win for both teams.

The Twins make a smaller trade for a rental RP, and SUDDENLY the entire depth option for the rotation and bullpen are vastly changed. And maybe that rental arm signs back? Remember Romo a few years ago who didn't cost much, did well, and was re-signed? 

Look, I still remember the PROMISE from ownership that Target Field would allow the Twins to at least keep players, if not sign FA. And we have ONLY BRIEFLY seen that promise come to fact. And maybe TP is sincere about his comments, or maybe he speaks with a forked tongue.

To be fair...and I'm doing so grudgingly...7 1/2 months for the "new owner" and 6 and 1/2 months from the new GM, might not be enough time to truly evaluate their intentions or competence. But I know I'm already tired of seeing quality Twins players being moved instead of being KEPT based on promises made.

I'm willing, grudgingly so again, to give TP and Zoll a bit of a pass for missed opportunities and mismanagement in the past. Maybe it's just to late to re-sign Jeffers, but there's a big decision to be made regarding trading him, vs keeping him and letting him go, or offering the QO.

I DON'T believe Ryan is going to be traded. Period. I've thought that for a while now. 

There will probably be a couple minor moves. The biggest question RIGHT NOW is do they take advantage of Jeffers value vs 2027. Personally, I WANT to keep him and give him the QO. Removing emotion, trading him to Seattle for a solid arm and a solid, young BP arm just makes so much sense I have to agree with a trade.

But I appreciate your OP, Greg. There IS a DIFFERENCE of being a fan who can enjoy every season, and every win, and TRYING TO WIN every season, with hopes of contention. But, one more time, it's more fun to root for a team that's playing good ball and has a CHANCE vs just being disappointed every, single, season because your team didn't win it all.

***NOTE: I'm a 50yo plus Twins NUTJOB who loves the Twins. And I follow the MILB system dearly, and even enjoy the ML draft. So I'm a Twins obsessive freak. And I blame my father and his transitor radio and car radios and so much more.

I've seen and listened to lousy Twins seasons and good Twins seasons over 50 years. (I'm 60yo). I've seen greatness with 2 WS wins and a bunch of WTH didn't we advance moments. 

But EVERY DAMN FEBRUARY myself and my 82yo father look to the next season, and feel that life has changed a bit. The greenery is just STARTING to bloom here in Nebraska at that time. HOPE is eternal for baseball. That's what makes it so special. 

Again, if you only want Champions for your favorite teams, by ALL MEANS go do you. Be an Alabama fan, a Yankees or Dodgers fan. Full confession, I became a Lakers fan in the early '80 from a dear friend watching Magic Johnson and the Lakers on taped delay. I've never been a big NBA fan, but when I saw something I'd never seen before, I became a fan.

So it's 100% OK to bitch and complain about the Twins. A fan has that right. But Greg is also right that if ALL you can do is hate and complain, then maybe you need to another team to follow that makes sense to you.

And that's OK.

For ME, I have a lifelong Twins "virus" that there is no inoculation for, so I'm STUCK. And I will comment on what I like and don't like. But I will never be a BLACK HOLE of fan support.  It's not my nature, and it sure isn't fun.

 

 

 

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, nova_twins said:

Uh yeah the rest of the league is aware which is why the Twins won't get offered anything meaningful for Jeffers, so it's pointless to trade him. 

So what you're saying is every single team in the league already has a solid starting catcher? Catchers are at a premium because the league has so few quality catchers. Jeffers probably gives a team with a strong need at catcher a couple more wins on their schedule. That's a big difference and why another team would potentially overpay to get Jeffers.

[Greggory Masterson]

7 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

 

“You’re not a GM, Coach, or Player. You shouldn’t have an opinion about this team”

 

I look forward to you replying this under everything I publish here from now until April 2028 when I am inevitably fired for my antics.

[lecroy24fan]

I don't agree with a lot, maybe even most of what @Greggory Masterson writes but some of you took it personally. Way too personal.

I read it as one persons opinion. 

[DJL44]

This discussion got really dumb, really quick

[Vanimal46]

2 minutes ago, Greggory Masterson said:

I look forward to you replying this under everything I publish here from now until April 2028 when I am inevitably fired for my antics.

I relish you being the sole reason of destroying a forum of fans because you don’t allow opinions. 

[Vanimal46]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

This discussion got really dumb, really quick

Dumb topics deserve dumb replies. 

[Linus]

2 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

This discussion got really dumb, really quick

It sure did but when you post a piece like that you’re pretty much begging for a shotshow. What a waste of time and digital ink. 

[IndianaTwin]

6 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Jeffers has never, in his life, caught more than 81 games in a season. He's no sure thing to be some true starting catcher either. And they can trade him now and sign him after the season. Nothing says they can't offer him the best deal if they trade him.

Except for last year, when he caught 88. And in 2024, when he caught 86. And 2023, when he caught 82, And 2021, when he caught 84.

And most of those were load management years, when they made the choice to time share evenly. This year, when not limited by a hitting injury, he's caught three games out of four (37 of 48 team games before the hamate injury, 8 of 13 since). If he continues that pace and doesn't get hurt, he'll catch around  85 games despite a long IL stint. If not for dealing with a non-catching injury, he'd be on target for about 120 games. In today's game, that's a true starting catcher, particularly when you add a handful of DH games on top of that.

I do agree that they can resign him even if they do trade him, but it seems like that doesn't happen very often. A Google search gave me an article from last year's deadline that only came up with Jack Flaherty (2024), Aroldis Chapman (2016), Yimi Garcia (2024), Jay Bruce (2017), Kelly Johnson (2015) and Jason Hammel (2014). It didn't claim to be a complete list, but there aren't others that jump out at me. It seems there's a far greater likelihood a player resigns if the team didn't trade him.

[TheLeviathan]

7 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

This discussion got really dumb, really quick

In fairness....it started with a really dumb thesis.

[Vanimal46]

I do find it hilarious that the Author makes it his mission to call out dumb s*** about old friend Ted on Twitter then proceeds to write dumb s***.  Be better @Greggory Masterson

[TheLeviathan]

There has been a lot here, and apologies if I'm repeating something already said, but the author frankly thinks they are smarter than they really are.  Part of this article says "enjoy the storylines"....ok, part of the "storyline" of sports ARE the transactions!

We tune in for the December GM meetings hoping to hear about an exciting player move.  We watch for free agent signings.  We tune in for the draft.  We hang on the decisions about the 26 man roster.  Why would the trade deadline be any different?  Why would we suddenly not form opinions about this one part of the "storyline" when the author has endorsed that very notion?

I'm not the GM.  The manager.  The owner.  I'm a fan.  Transactions and the path they weave for the future of the organization are part of that storyline.  The never ending one I enjoy the rest of my life.  This entire thesis is hypocritical and short-sighted because it chooses to carve out a part of the storyline that is woven into the fabric of being a sports fan.

The embarrassing, condescending retorts afterwards here in the comments only cement that this person thought they were holding a lofty notion when the truth is they never had a coherent notion to start with.

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

Except for last year, when he caught 88. And in 2024, when he caught 86. And 2023, when he caught 82, And 2021, when he caught 84.

And most of those were load management years, when they made the choice to time share evenly. This year, when not limited by a hitting injury, he's caught three games out of four (37 of 48 team games before the hamate injury, 8 of 13 since). If he continues that pace and doesn't get hurt, he'll catch around  85 games despite a long IL stint. If not for dealing with a non-catching injury, he'd be on target for about 120 games. In today's game, that's a true starting catcher, particularly when you add a handful of DH games on top of that.

I do agree that they can resign him even if they do trade him, but it seems like that doesn't happen very often. A Google search gave me an article from last year's deadline that only came up with Jack Flaherty (2024), Aroldis Chapman (2016), Yimi Garcia (2024), Jay Bruce (2017), Kelly Johnson (2015) and Jason Hammel (2014). It didn't claim to be a complete list, but there aren't others that jump out at me. It seems there's a far greater likelihood a player resigns if the team didn't trade him.

He caught IN 88, 86, 82, and 84 games those years. He didn't catch 88,86, 82, or 84 games. You can feel free to count games where he caught an inning or 2, but I don't.

And you could make an argument that they mismanaged him during those time share seasons if you'd like, but you'll find a bunch of people on here who will point out that he faded down the stretch in every one of them despite the time share. As I said in a subsequent post, I'd certainly bet on him over Caratini when it comes to their chances of being an everyday catcher, but the other poster pointed to Caratini's lack of more than 87 games caught as proof he wasn't a good bet. Age 30 Jeffers isn't a great bet either is all I'm saying. Being "on target" for 120 games doesn't impress me. We have no idea what he would look like over the stretch of the entire season at that pace. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me based on his previous track record of not doing it.

Oh, it is definitely rare. But that's because most of the time you're trading someone it's because you already know you won't pay the player what they're asking. It's a naturally biased data set.

I'd much rather have Jeffers for the next 3 or 4 years than piece things together beyond Caratini and Jackson. But, I believe, if Jeffers and the Twins were on the same page for a contract he'd already be signed.

[tony&rodney]

If one of New York (Yankees), Tampa Bay, Boston, Chicago (White Sox), San Diego, Seattle, or another team decide that Ryan Jeffers has the value needed for their team to make their season turn in the manner they desire, a worthwhile offer will be put forth and Ryan Jeffers will be traded. Otherwise, Jeffers stays and the Twins receive nothing.