Nationals 15, Twins 2: This One Was Ugly

[MinnInPa]

why why why is Topa still in major league baseball

[Whitey333]

Your article commented about how the Twins played so poorly against a bad team.  That's a very good point.  So to is the fact that the Twins are a bad team.  Why sugar coat it?  With Woods-Richardson Pitching on Thursday afternoon the chance of winning woukd seem low.

[tony&rodney]

18 minutes ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Would Ober be a good reliever?

Good question. I'm not sure. His stuff is focused on keeping batters off balance. There isn't any time he blows people away with velocity. Trevor Hoffmann used a change up as his primary pitch as does Devin Williams, but they both used a fastball on occasions. Ober is still mostly effective for 5 innings and often more. This is a key year for him personally as he approaches a greater income gain through arbitration. 

I wondered what other teams thought of Ober last winter in terms of his trade value. Perhaps the Twins have a greater value on Bailey than others though.

I was miffed a bit with how Ober just ran out of gas last night.

[Woof Bronzer]

10 hours ago, DJL44 said:

The one where the Twins traded away an expensive season of a poor performing player?

Yeah that one.  Who did they get for this "poor performing player", and how did those players perform?  And who did the Twins sign with the savings from his "expensive" contract?

[wavedog]

We just need to give the bullpen guys some endearing nicknames so we feel better about them:          Luis "Punching Bag" Garcia,    Justin  "Hitmehard" Topa,  Anthony "Gasoline" Banda      does that make anyone feel better?    If these were young developing guys it would be one thing but these are veterans that have a big bag of nothing.   Not that this is a surprise - after the trade deadline moves and no meaningful signings in the offseason and not developing anyone from the minors.   

 

[LewFordLives]

11 hours ago, Jacksson said:

 

Both Clemens and Wallner are looking up at the Mendoza Line.

Lewis is looking straight up and can't yet see the Mendoza line.

[DJL44]

57 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Yeah that one.  Who did they get for this "poor performing player", and how did those players perform?  And who did the Twins sign with the savings from his "expensive" contract?

They got top prospect Gonzalez and signed Carlos Santana. Santana had a better 2024 than Polanco.

[USAFChief]

1 minute ago, DJL44 said:

They got top prospect Gonzalez and signed Carlos Santana. Santana had a better 2024 than Polanco.

Top prospect Gonzalez? Gonzalez has yet to take a single AB for the Twins. Currently posting a .633 OPS in St Paul. 

They wasted the money and resources needed for a starter on Andrew Desclafani. Thankfully he never tossed a pitch for the Twins. 

Topa...

Carlos Santana is completely unrelated.

That trade made the Twins weaker. Without question.  Squandered an asset for worse than diddly squat.

[DJL44]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Top prospect Gonzalez? Gonzalez has yet to take a single AB for the Twins. Currently posting a .633 OPS in St Paul. 

They wasted the money and resources needed for a starter on Andrew Desclafani. Thankfully he never tossed a pitch for the Twins. 

Topa...

Carlos Santana is completely unrelated.

That trade made the Twins weaker. Without question.  Squandered an asset for worse than diddly squat.

Santana is what they spent the savings on. If they had kept Polanco they would have received a bad season from an expensive player. I don’t think they had any other teams besides the Mariners bidding for Polanco’s services.  I think you are overestimating the value of the “asset”. Old second basemen are not hard to find.

The Twins win the trade if they sell Polanco for $1. If that’s the “worst trade in franchise history” they’re the most blessed team in trades in the history of MLB.

[Woof Bronzer]

9 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They got top prospect Gonzalez and signed Carlos Santana. Santana had a better 2024 than Polanco.

This is a very interesting response.  I notice you left off the other players that we also got.  How come?

The Twins cut $30 mil the offseason they traded Polanco.  They pocketed the savings from the Polanco trade.  You know this, of course.  

"Top prospect" yes I agree Gonzalez has done nothing to help the Twins.  Interesting framing.  

I am gobsmacked by the people defending this trade?  You can think Polanco was overpaid for his production and also acknowledge the factual reality that they got a terrible return in the trade.  It's really ok to think both things are true.    

[JD-TWINS]

12 hours ago, USAFChief said:

Topa hanging around as a little reminder of one of the worst trades in team history.

 

 

Come on…..

[JD-TWINS]

35 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

This is a very interesting response.  I notice you left off the other players that we also got.  How come?

The Twins cut $30 mil the offseason they traded Polanco.  They pocketed the savings from the Polanco trade.  You know this, of course.  

"Top prospect" yes I agree Gonzalez has done nothing to help the Twins.  Interesting framing.  

I am gobsmacked by the people defending this trade?  You can think Polanco was overpaid for his production and also acknowledge the factual reality that they got a terrible return in the trade.  It's really ok to think both things are true.    

A Team doesn’t sign a guy for what he gave the organization 2-3 years prior. Polanco was hurt and not very effective/productive for his last 2 seasons in MN…… he wasn’t. He wasn’t good in Seattle in his first year there. Then, they signed him on a one year deal last year and he performed to higher than expectations - he then shined in the Post-Season. ……….last year’s good fortune for Jorge has nothing to do with the trade.

Topa had 1 good year - relative to his expectations, after being hurt nearly all of year 1. DeSclafani was a bust. Gonzalez certainly has potential as shown throughout last year & now at AAA.

Polanco played an average of 92 games/yr over his last two years in MN. This season, after signing a great deal with the Mets, he’s played in 14 games with a .179 BA & a 51 OPS+.
I wish Jorge well, but it was not a bad trade.

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

Top prospect Gonzalez? Gonzalez has yet to take a single AB for the Twins. Currently posting a .633 OPS in St Paul. 

They wasted the money and resources needed for a starter on Andrew Desclafani. Thankfully he never tossed a pitch for the Twins. 

Topa...

Carlos Santana is completely unrelated.

That trade made the Twins weaker. Without question.  Squandered an asset for worse than diddly squat.

But the point that Gonzalez was the most valuable asset of the trade still has yet to be refuted, and despite him currently tanking at AAA, he has previously had some value as a prospect these past couple seasons that could have been cashed in for something. 

Penciling in DeScalfani for the #5 starter position was stupid on Falvey's part and trusting in Topa's health wasn't very bright either, poor management around a mediocre trade. But it's not close to Falvey's top 5 worst trades let alone the franchise's, heck, even the Brock Stewart trade was worse. Outman was an obvious bad asset, meanwhile at the very worst Gonzalez could have been part of a package to acquire a MLB-caliber player.

And to be clear, I don't consider Santana as part of the move.

But I'm still waiting to hear the explanation of why you consider Polanco to be "an asset" when he didn't produce for the Mariners and evidently didn't have that much trade value.

[rdehring]

Felt good going into last night's game with Ober on the hill.  Don't feel very good about today with SWR starting.  Just as last night's results weren't what we expected, can that also be the case today?  Or not?

Also appears Ober pitched very well, until he didn't.  Pull him after 5 and the the results don't look as bad and the Twins would have still been in the game.  Only problem, that means the bullpen had to pitch 4 innings.

[JBK]

Could rookies in the BP be any worse?  There is a reason all of these relievers were released time and time again.

[KirbyDome89]

48 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

A Team doesn’t sign a guy for what he gave the organization 2-3 years prior. Polanco was hurt and not very effective/productive for his last 2 seasons in MN…… he wasn’t. He wasn’t good in Seattle in his first year there. Then, they signed him on a one year deal last year and he performed to higher than expectations - he then shined in the Post-Season. ……….last year’s good fortune for Jorge has nothing to do with the trade.

Topa had 1 good year - relative to his expectations, after being hurt nearly all of year 1. DeSclafani was a bust. Gonzalez certainly has potential as shown throughout last year & now at AAA.

Polanco played an average of 92 games/yr over his last two years in MN. This season, after signing a great deal with the Mets, he’s played in 14 games with a .179 BA & a 51 OPS+.
I wish Jorge well, but it was not a bad trade.

I'll start by saying I don't view the swap as an all time bad move, but I didn't like it, and I still don't. 

I'll also say Polanco wasn't expensive, the guy made $10M in 2024. This allegedly cash strapped organization just found $14M to throw at Victor Caratini and Josh Bell. 

Idk why the savings in the Polanco deal are being attributed only to the Santana signing. A few weeks after agreeing with Santana the Twins also made a swap for Margot and paid him nearly the same amount. 

Teams absolutely do sign guys for past performance. That's what FA is. You are by definition paying for previous performance with the hope it continues/improves. Polanco certainly missed a big chunk of 2023 and a decent amount of 2022 due to injury but he was absolutely effective. His average OPS between '21 and '23 was nearly .800. That's pretty damn productive for a 2B. 

The Twins (for better or worse) were banking on DeSclafani as their 5th starter. Losing him immediately meant Varland stayed in the rotation. Topa was a complete non-factor in '24 and despite an ok '25 he's cannon fodder so far this year. Probably a push as far as any value goes. Yeah, they're still holding onto Gonzalez I guess so we'll see. 

[Woof Bronzer]

5 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

A Team doesn’t sign a guy for what he gave the organization 2-3 years prior. Polanco was hurt and not very effective/productive for his last 2 seasons in MN…… he wasn’t. He wasn’t good in Seattle in his first year there. Then, they signed him on a one year deal last year and he performed to higher than expectations - he then shined in the Post-Season. ……….last year’s good fortune for Jorge has nothing to do with the trade.

Topa had 1 good year - relative to his expectations, after being hurt nearly all of year 1. DeSclafani was a bust. Gonzalez certainly has potential as shown throughout last year & now at AAA.

Polanco played an average of 92 games/yr over his last two years in MN. This season, after signing a great deal with the Mets, he’s played in 14 games with a .179 BA & a 51 OPS+.
I wish Jorge well, but it was not a bad trade.

Why do folks not want to talk about who we got in this trade?  Surely you understand that's how trades work.  You can't just say "Polanco wasn't great for Seattle so it was a good trade."  Polanco had 1.2 WAR in 2024. In return we got 2 1/3 innings out of Topa and literally nothing else.  According to you 2025 is irrelevant to evaluating the trade, so looking solely at 2024, how in the world is this a good trade? 

I am not sure why 2026 counts in evaluating this trade, but if you think Polanco has been bad, you should check out Topa's numbers!

It wasn't the worst trade in Twins history, probably not in the top 100.  But trading a guy for several worse players in order to cut a few million dollars from the payroll is a terrible strategy and should not be celebrated.  This organization desperately needs to acquire better players, not worse ones.   

Of course, there's a chance Gonzalez becomes a star and leapfrogs Jenkins, ERod, and the other dozen or so outfielders ahead of him on the depth chart.  That would change the view of the trade.