Twins Add Veteran Shortstop Depth with Orlando Arcia Signing

[Woof Bronzer]

16 hours ago, NYCTK said:

They quite literally did though. It's just that the team was far worse than many people thought. To get that production, about 5 WAR, for what came in under $10 million combined is quite good work from the front office if we're being honest, which many people here have trouble with. And that's not even counting the prospects that came back in return; Mendez, Horn, Roden (kind of), and Villoria.

The signing of these three players was an undeniable success for the front office. That is, unless you just want to complain for the sake of complaining. 

The front office's plan by signing those 3 guys was to win the Central.  That plan failed miserably. 

The point of baseball is to win games, not sign great value contracts for washed up vets on 1 year deals.  France was the 30th best first baseman last year.  If you think that was a success amidst a 92 loss season, great.  Enjoy the losing.  

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, Woof Bronzer said:

The front office's plan by signing those 3 guys was to win the Central.  That plan failed miserably. 

The point of baseball is to win games, not sign great value contracts for washed up vets on 1 year deals.  France was the 30th best first baseman last year.  If you think that was a success amidst a 92 loss season, great.  Enjoy the losing.  

Sorry that you've completely misdirected your anger at the terrible team towards the cheaper, competent, if unexciting veterans instead of the actual problems. 

[The Great Hambino]

The signing of Arcia in and of itself is not a problem.  It is a no-risk, low-reward proposition.   That's perfectly fine.

The problem is where the signing of Arcia slots in the sum total of moves the Twins have made this offseason in order of importance given that a) they have so many areas in need of an upgrade b) their stated intention to not use any of their most valuable assets to find upgrades at those areas of need via trade and c) their stated intention to compete next year.

It also looks sorta comically bad that the Twins have now invested in cast-offs that the Rockies (Arcia), Marlins (Wagaman) and Pirates (Kriedler) have deemed unworthy of a roster spot.  Be on the lookout for who the White Sox DFA next!  

[Woof Bronzer]

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Sorry that you've completely misdirected your anger at the terrible team towards the cheaper, competent, if unexciting veterans instead of the actual problems. 

I'm happy you were able to find joy in the contract of an 0.8 WAR player amidst a 92 loss season.

[NYCTK]

44 minutes ago, Woof Bronzer said:

I'm happy you were able to find joy in the contract of an 0.8 WAR player amidst a 92 loss season.

I'm sorry you hated cheap veterans that contributed 5 WAR of contribution because the rest of the team sucked. I would suggest you worry more about the broader team sucking than the supplementary players that were added, like all teams do. This is how so many people looked absolutely ridiculous last year when they signed Bader. Hating on his signing was the sign someone doesn't understand baseball in the least.  

Is Arcia exciting? No. But he's a minor league signing and he isn't supposed to be. Getting bent out of shape because of this signing is like getting mad at a stop sign. 

[RpR]

5 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

The front office's plan by signing those 3 guys was to win the Central.  That plan failed miserably. 

The point of baseball is to win games, not sign great value contracts for washed up vets on 1 year deals.  France was the 30th best first baseman last year.  If you think that was a success amidst a 92 loss season, great.  Enjoy the losing.  

Wallner and Julien are still here so I would not worry about newbies.

When spring training arrives, then you may have reason to pee and moan.

[USAFChief]

16 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Correct.. I am talking generally. I'm not pretending anything.

There are many posts of mine where I face the stiff winds on TD many times to point out that the Twins spent quite a bit. More than I ever thought they would ever spend. A severe correction doesn't shock me... nor do I care about the money... because I understand the revenue class of teams that the Twins have always been in. I've typed that many times. 

I'll get on Royce, Wallner and Larnach but right now... they are just part of this developing lack of development story. You just mentioned 3 guys devoloped under our care that don't play SS or 1B. Two spots where we don't even have a Royce, Wallner or Larnach to play those positions and scrimping pennies to fill. 

That is what I'm generally talking about!!! 

I understand why they signed Bell, Arcia, Wagaman, France. All of them. 

The reason they need to do that is what I'm generally talking about. 

You keep tilting at this windmill.

Every MLB team needs to, and does, supplement their minor league supply line to the majors.

Every. Single. Team

Pretty much every single year. Nobody is churning out postseason teams solely from within. 

It's not simply that the Twins haven't been able to develop and deploy MLB all star level players. They've also sucked at adding outside talent. You need to do both.

There's no shame adding players. None whatsoever. Everyone does. But be good at it.

[KirbyDome89]

35 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I'm sorry you hated cheap veterans that contributed 5 WAR of contribution because the rest of the team sucked. I would suggest you worry more about the broader team sucking than the supplementary players that were added, like all teams do. This is how so many people looked absolutely ridiculous last year when they signed Bader. Hating on his signing was the sign someone doesn't understand baseball in the least.  

Is Arcia exciting? No. But he's a minor league signing and he isn't supposed to be. Getting bent out of shape because of this signing is like getting mad at a stop sign. 

I was a certified "hater," of the Bader signing. His resurgence with the bat proved me wrong, but his usage was exactly what had myself and others concerned. He was billed as the 4th OF/late inning defensive replacement off the bench at the time of the signing, in reality he received starter level PAs whether in LF or filling in for Buxton in CF. We had just watched this team give Gallo and Margot leashes that were infinitely too long, so Idk, maybe I "don't know ball," or maybe this organization has a track record of sticking with vets well past their expiration date. 

Right now one of Arcia or Kreidler is locked into the active roster. My guess is that Arcia's vet status gives him the inside edge. 

[NYCTK]

32 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I was a certified "hater," of the Bader signing. His resurgence with the bat proved me wrong, but his usage was exactly what had myself and others concerned. He was billed as the 4th OF/late inning defensive replacement off the bench at the time of the signing, in reality he received starter level PAs whether in LF or filling in for Buxton in CF. We had just watched this team give Gallo and Margot leashes that were infinitely too long, so Idk, maybe I "don't know ball," or maybe this organization has a track record of sticking with vets well past their expiration date. 

Right now one of Arcia or Kreidler is locked into the active roster. My guess is that Arcia's vet status gives him the inside edge. 

If the team were any good, Bader would have been a 4th OF. Unfortunately the team sucked and his role was heightened. The front office didn't plan on Julien and Miranda sucking so much, and they didn't plan on Lewis, Wallner, Martin, Lee et al getting hurt and missing time. But they obviously knew it was possible, and they knew Keirsey sucked, so the obvious need for another OF was perfectly met by acquiring Bader. And I will repeat that any complaining about it was done by people that don't know ball. 

I don't know who you're accusing of having billed Bader as a late inning replacement. No veteran acquisition is ever billed as a late inning defensive replacement. That's playoff roster talk, not regular season roster talk. 

Gallo was removed from the regular roster in late 2023, hence proving your own point wrong. So, I don't know why people keep pointing at him. As for Margot...the backup was Keirsey. So, in hindsight I understand why Rocco was playing him (but not pinch-hitting, although I'm happy he did because we saw an MLB record 🥲).

Yes, Arcia is potentially going to spend a fair amount of time on the roster. But it's because this team sucks and he's the next best player on the roster, not because this team has a hard-on for bad veterans. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, USAFChief said:

You keep tilting at this windmill.

Every MLB team needs to, and does, supplement their minor league supply line to the majors.

Every. Single. Team

Pretty much every single year. Nobody is churning out postseason teams solely from within. 

It's not simply that the Twins haven't been able to develop and deploy MLB all star level players. They've also sucked at adding outside talent. You need to do both.

There's no shame adding players. None whatsoever. Everyone does. But be good at it.

I agree with everything you are saying. I'm not sure where the confusion is. 

Minor league signings happen with all 30 teams. I understand this. It's elementary stuff. It's not a concern of mine... I don't worry about them and I don't tear them apart and it's really not my intention to tear apart this Arcia signing either. A minor league deal is typical routine course of business for all 30 teams.  

However... According to your earlier post and it's a post that I agreed with. You and I both suspect that he is more than a minor league signing and it's because of the current depth at the SS position. 

If Arcia reports to St. Paul and has to prove himself into a roster spot... well alright. Our suspicions were unwarranted and this is just a typical routine course of business minor league signing. 

France playing every day for a contender is a huge issue and it's because they don't have the money to compete. A team with no budget left to significantly play in free agency and a team not developing enough talent to cover for having no budget. 

That leaves trades to staff your roster sufficiently since two legs of the three legged chair (Draft/Develop, Free Agency and Trades are the three legs) are not getting the job done. Just like you say in your post above.

Trades? Well, Joe Ryan is going nowhere because they are going for it. Now we have 3 questionable legs.

Can't trade our prospects for vet talent because vet talent costs money and we are tapped out. We have 20 million... spent 7 of it on a 1B and we still haven't even looked at the bullpen.  

I type a lot of words on this subject so yeah... I'm tilting. But... forget all the words that I've typed.

Nutshell: I'm concerned because our 1B, SS and C depth is so thin that Arcia could sign a minor league deal and end up on the opening day roster. 

Signing Ty France for a million dollars doesn't bug me. It's needing Ty France to play every single day that bugs me. 

In a nutshell... I can see they are not going to spend... if they are not going to spend. You better start making your own. 

[USAFChief]

9 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

I agree with everything you are saying. I'm not sure where the confusion is. 

Minor league signings happen with all 30 teams. I understand this. It's elementary stuff. It's not a concern of mine... I don't worry about them and I don't tear them apart and it's really not my intention to tear apart this Arcia signing either. A minor league deal is typical routine course of business for all 30 teams.  

However... According to your earlier post and it's a post that I agreed with. You and I both suspect that he is more than a minor league signing and it's because of the current depth at the SS position. 

If Arcia reports to St. Paul and has to prove himself into a roster spot... well alright. Our suspicions were unwarranted and this is just a typical routine course of business minor league signing. 

France playing every day for a contender is a huge issue and it's because they don't have the money to compete. A team with no budget left to significantly play in free agency and a team not developing enough talent to cover for having no budget. 

That leaves trades to staff your roster sufficiently since two legs of the three legged chair (Draft/Develop, Free Agency and Trades are the three legs) are not getting the job done. Just like you say in your post above.

Trades? Well, Joe Ryan is going nowhere because they are going for it. Now we have 3 questionable legs.

Can't trade our prospects for vet talent because vet talent costs money and we are tapped out. We have 20 million... spent 7 of it on a 1B and we still haven't even looked at the bullpen.  

I type a lot of words on this subject so yeah... I'm tilting. But... forget all the words that I've typed.

Nutshell: I'm concerned because our 1B, SS and C depth is so thin that Arcia could sign a minor league deal and end up on the opening day roster. 

Signing Ty France for a million dollars doesn't bug me. It's needing Ty France to play every single day that bugs me. 

In a nutshell... I can see they are not going to spend... if they are not going to spend. You better start making your own. The SS depth and 1B depth and C depth is almost 

Free Agency, Draft and Develop and Trades. 

I'm not really talking about minor league signings. I'm talking about signing and/or trading, or collecting talent to supplement a MLB 26 man roster. Nobody does that entirely internally. 

And in the specific case of Arcia, I firmly believe it's  "minor league" deal in name only. He'll be on the 26 man come opening day. 

"I'd bet my life on it."

 

 

[Riverbrian]

16 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

Nobody does that entirely internally. 

Nor should they. It's a three legged chair. Take away a leg... the chair falls over. If you can't compete decently with one leg (Free Agency)... you better become a two legged chair and quickly. 

The Twins actually have 20 homegrown players on the 40 man at the moment. Only 4 teams have more. Cleveland 25, Colorado 24, Detroit 21 and Arizona 21. I recognize this. My complaints about the one year rental may cause some to think that I don't realize this but I do realize this. 

The Twins have no budget space to operate decently in free agency and that money has been gone for three off-seasons now.  Those 20 Home Grown Players have to be better and the current state of 1B, SS and C is unacceptable. 

 

 

[rv78]

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

Yes, Arcia is potentially going to spend a fair amount of time on the roster. But it's because this team sucks and he's the next best player on the roster, not because this team has a hard-on for bad veterans.

Totally disagree. The team sucks BECAUSE this team has a hard-on for bad veterans. Without even naming the likes of the Gallos and Margots from seasons past we can just look at the current roster with the additions of Gasper, Kriedler, Clemens, Outman, Bride, Bell, Jackson, Wagaman, Arcia, and I haven't even gotten to the pitchers. How many bad veteran players do you need? I guess a ton if you've done a terrible job drafting prospects or developing them into big leaguers. 

[NYCTK]

2 minutes ago, rv78 said:

Totally disagree. The team sucks BECAUSE this team has a hard-on for bad veterans. Without even naming the likes of the Gallos and Margots from seasons past we can just look at the current roster with the additions of Gasper, Kriedler, Clemens, Outman, Bride, Bell, Jackson, Wagaman, Arcia, and I haven't even gotten to the pitchers. How many bad veteran players do you need? I guess a ton if you've done a terrible job drafting prospects or developing them into big leaguers. 

I don't know what to tell other than you're just wrong. The front office sucks, but signing minor league free agents to supplement the ****** roster they built is not why.

You finally got to the correct point at the end of the paragraph. They suck, and need to sign ****** veterans like Arcia because they suck, not the other way around. Lee didn't hit for **** in '25 because he was afraid Arcia would steal his job next season. 

[rv78]

1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

I don't know what to tell other than you're just wrong. The front office sucks, but signing minor league free agents to supplement the ****** roster they built is not why.

You finally got to the correct point at the end of the paragraph. They suck, and need to sign ****** veterans like Arcia because they suck, not the other way around. Lee didn't hit for **** in '25 because he was afraid Arcia would steal his job next season. 

When the 9 players I named are NOT on the major league roster and are spending their time in the minors then you have a point. Until then, the team sucks BECAUSE they are playing in the majors. Unfortunately the regulars like Lewis, Lee, Wallner, Larnach also sucked. You don't become better by bringing in MORE players that suck. The ones that you have that suck, are enough. In the grand scheme of things, Falvey seems to want to keep the players that suck and he likes to add a shitload more players that suck. He's got a hard-on for players that suck and since he is running the Twins show then yes, the Twins have a hard-on for players that suck.

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

If the team were any good, Bader would have been a 4th OF. Unfortunately the team sucked and his role was heightened. The front office didn't plan on Julien and Miranda sucking so much, and they didn't plan on Lewis, Wallner, Martin, Lee et al getting hurt and missing time. But they obviously knew it was possible, and they knew Keirsey sucked, so the obvious need for another OF was perfectly met by acquiring Bader. And I will repeat that any complaining about it was done by people that don't know ball. 

I don't know who you're accusing of having billed Bader as a late inning replacement. No veteran acquisition is ever billed as a late inning defensive replacement. That's playoff roster talk, not regular season roster talk. 

Gallo was removed from the regular roster in late 2023, hence proving your own point wrong. So, I don't know why people keep pointing at him. As for Margot...the backup was Keirsey. So, in hindsight I understand why Rocco was playing him. 

Yes, Arcia is potentially going to spend a fair amount of time on the roster. But it's because this team sucks and he's the next best player on the roster, not because this team has a hard-on for bad veterans. 

But they weren't, and they're still not, hence the issue with handing outsized roles to marginal at best players. Bader was starting from day 1, no permutation of the above players struggling or getting injured elevated his role. He was brought in with the intention of playing exactly as often as he did, but hey, I guess I don't know ball so...

Check the thread(s) if you'd like. I'm not digging back through them.

The playoff roster? They didn't release him. I mean Gallo was still starting games through all of August and even played in early September before an "injury," derailed his season, and this was for a team that needed Ws. He had been unplayable since April. He slashed .163/.288/.374 with a 45% K rate from May 1st onward. People keep pointing at him because he spent months chewing up a roster spot and being terrible for a team that wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders for a majority of the season. Ditto for Margot, the fact that the Twins whiffed on Margot's inability to play CF and they couldn't find another sub replacement level corner OF within their own system doesn't excuse them for letting him set an all time record for PH futility and racking up starter level PAs for them, but again, I don't know ball...

Yes, and part of the reason this team sucks is that they continue to commit valuable roster spots and playing time to players who suck. 

[KirbyDome89]

3 hours ago, rv78 said:

Totally disagree. The team sucks BECAUSE this team has a hard-on for bad veterans. Without even naming the likes of the Gallos and Margots from seasons past we can just look at the current roster with the additions of Gasper, Kriedler, Clemens, Outman, Bride, Bell, Jackson, Wagaman, Arcia, and I haven't even gotten to the pitchers. How many bad veteran players do you need? I guess a ton if you've done a terrible job drafting prospects or developing them into big leaguers. 

Draft/develop has been bad, the "core," is massively flawed, but this FO continues to bring in guys who in the best case scenario hold up a floor that's quickly approaching rock bottom. In a lot of cases they just actively contribute to the losing. 

 

[Woof Bronzer]

18 hours ago, NYCTK said:

I'm sorry you hated cheap veterans that contributed 5 WAR of contribution because the rest of the team sucked. I would suggest you worry more about the broader team sucking than the supplementary players that were added, like all teams do. This is how so many people looked absolutely ridiculous last year when they signed Bader. Hating on his signing was the sign someone doesn't understand baseball in the least.  

Is Arcia exciting? No. But he's a minor league signing and he isn't supposed to be. Getting bent out of shape because of this signing is like getting mad at a stop sign. 

If you think getting 5 WAR out of 3 cheap vets is the way the turn the Twins into a contender you truly do not understand baseball.  The Twins need much, much more than "supplementary" players.  The Twins need better players, full stop.  I am truly sorry that you don't seem to understand that guys like Bader, France, and Coloumbe do not turn the Twins into contenders.  Do you think Wagaman, Bell, and Arcia are going to help the Twins win the Central next year?

Bent out of shape lol, I'm just saying the Twins plan of contending next year is going to fail spectacularly if all they add to a 57-win roster are 0-1 WAR guys, just like it failed spectacularly last year when they tried to win the Central by signing Bader, France, and Columbe.  Sounds like you think it'll work.  Difference of opinion, that's fine.  But hey, this season should give you plenty of opportunities to get excited about cheap contracts for bad players - enjoy the losing!  

[Woof Bronzer]

15 hours ago, NYCTK said:

not because this team has a hard-on for bad veterans. 

You simply have not been following the Twins for the past 3 decades then.  Yeesh.  

[Woof Bronzer]

15 hours ago, NYCTK said:

If the team were any good, Bader would have been a 4th OF.

Exactly the point.  The team wasn't good, so they needed someone better than Bader if they wanted to get better.  Signing those 3 guys and expecting to compete was stupid.  It didn't work.  If the goal was competing, signing Bader was a failure.  

[NYCTK]

2 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

If you think getting 5 WAR out of 3 cheap vets is the way the turn the Twins into a contender you truly do not understand baseball.  The Twins need much, much more than "supplementary" players.  The Twins need better players, full stop.  I am truly sorry that you don't seem to understand that guys like Bader, France, and Coloumbe do not turn the Twins into contenders.  Do you think Wagaman, Bell, and Arcia are going to help the Twins win the Central next year?

2025 Twins offensive players: 

per 600 PAs	PA	WAR/600PA	$$ per 600 PA
Fringe Roster (waivers, etc)	1142	0.11	$3.52
Free Agent Commits (multiyear/significant deals)	578	0.73	$38.20
Internal (drafted/acquired as prospect)	3645	1.05	$4.44
Free Agent Supplements (1 year vets)	694	3.03	$3.63

No one ever said acquiring Bader and France was going to make the Twins a contender. Everyone understood that they were veteran role players that are compensated at a very fair rate, supplementing the larger roster. And they more than did their job.

Why you expect other people to get made at the fact that the Twins sucked despite the front office fulfilling one aspect of roster construction competently, specifically their job of supplementing their roster with some low risk veteran additions. 

2 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

...the Twins plan of contending next year is going to fail spectacularly...

Yes it is. And it's not going to be at all the fault of a minor league SS acquisition. 

 

2 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Sounds like you think it'll work.

You don't know me then. I am very vocal about how much this team sucks. As I was last season. But I also refused to put any of the blame on the veterans that were doing the job they were paid to do. 

 

[RpR]

4 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

You simply have not been following the Twins for the past 3 decades then.  Yeesh.  

The team failed becausw Wallner, Larnach, Jeffers, Lewis sucked. To blame newby veterans is silly.

[TheLeviathan]

I'll plant a painful seed:

1B - Bell

2B - Lee

SS - Arcia

3B - Lewis

LF - Keaschall

CF - Buxton

RF - Wallner

DH - Larnach

Don't shoot the messenger....but I don't buy for a second that this guy is going to be holding down the fort in St. Paul.

[Mike Sixel]

1 minute ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'll plant a painful seed:

1B - Bell

2B - Lee

SS - Arcia

3B - Lewis

LF - Keaschall

CF - Buxton

RF - Wallner

DH - Larnach

Don't shoot the messenger....but I don't buy for a second that this guy is going to be holding down the fort in St. Paul.

Putting Keaschell in the OF is utter insanity given the other guys in the system. so, yes, it will happen. 

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

Putting Keaschell in the OF is utter insanity given the other guys in the system. so, yes, it will happen. 

Yup, I in no way endorse the above....but I'm braced for it.

[stringer bell]

On 1/6/2026 at 3:53 PM, KirbyDome89 said:

 My guess is that Arcia's vet status gives him the inside edge. 

I think Kreidler being on the 40-man roster and out of options give him the advantage. Of course, Arcia probably has an opt-out, so he is not likely to play significant innings in St. Paul.

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, stringer bell said:

I think Kreidler being on the 40-man roster and out of options give him the advantage. Of course, Arcia probably has an opt-out, so he is not likely to play significant innings in St. Paul.

Fangraphs shows that he has 1 option left.

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I think Kreidler being on the 40-man roster and out of options give him the advantage. Of course, Arcia probably has an opt-out, so he is not likely to play significant innings in St. Paul.

If he is out of options then maybe? Idk, I still think if Arcia's SS defense is passable they'll take his bat but it doesn't really matter, both of them are net negatives. 

[Riverbrian]

13 hours ago, Danchat said:

Fangraphs shows that he has 1 option left.

I'm not sure that Fangraphs is correct. Perhaps not updated because they normally do a real good job with this sort of thing.  

I believe that 2025 was his last option year. He got a 40 man spot in September 2022 and finished out the year with Detroit. He was optioned in 2023, 2024 and 2025. 

 

[Riverbrian]

15 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I think Kreidler being on the 40-man roster and out of options give him the advantage. Of course, Arcia probably has an opt-out, so he is not likely to play significant innings in St. Paul.

I don't know a ton about Kreidler. I can see his offensive stats. They ain't good but I'm not going to place a ton of weight in the numbers of any player that has had 211 scattered plate appearances over 4 years. His minor league numbers are OK at times but nothing that says this guy is a major league hitter. 

I won't damn him and I won't celebrate him. 

Somehow... with the offensive numbers being average in the minors and very little opportunity provided in the majors leaving pure small sample ugliness at the major league level. He has somehow kept a 40 man roster spot since he was added September 1st, 2022. 

If you think about all the movement that takes place on the 40 man rosters on all 30 teams during a given year. This guy has kept a 40 man spot for 3 years and 4 months now. That's fairly impressive and shows something. The Tigers have selected the contracts of players, during this time, they have protected players from the rule 5 draft during this time. They have acquired free agents, they have made trades. Through everything Kreidler survived. 

So... I won't damn him nor celebrate him. 

With that said. At the end of spring training. All teams have attempted to fill holes and most teams are trimming rosters. The waiver wire should fill up. Teams who see upgrades from the pile will pick off the best of the waived and waiver someone else to make space. The odds are that Kriedler isn't going to be the best of that group. Therefore, I believe that Kriedler will find no available 40 man space across baseball. If there is some space somewhere due to an injury or something. Is there a 4th team out there willing to give him a 40 man spot. 

That's why I believe Arcia will break camp. Kriedler will clear waivers and be playing multiple positions in St. Paul.

I could of course be wrong.