Twins Looking For a Power Bat.

[Chembry]

Bobby Nightengale posted that the Twins are looking to add a power bat along with relievers.  The big free agents are probably off the table (Alonso, Schwarber, Bregman, etc…), but I wonder if Okamoto, Lowe, O’Hearn, Hoskins, etc…fit the Twins definition?  There are too many trade targets to mention, but that is always an option.  The question then becomes, who gets traded to acquire said power bat?  Personally, I don’t expect any news on Twins acquisitions from the winter meetings, unless it’s a trade, but hopefully it’s sooner rather than later.  

[old nurse]

Hoskins is so many years from glory days that it makes the Gallo signing seem logical

Lowe hit well in Texas, was traded for a reliever, pouted and hit poorly in Washington,   Then was back to baseline with Boston’s. They chose not to resign. An OPS+ of. 121. Somehow I suspect there is an attitude issue there. If there are no takers for his services it would still be a roll of the dice for what you would get 

o’hearn might be the best but most costly option

I don’t know much about etc  Is he related to e.e cummings, who. Is now obscure enough that AI wasn’t to misspell his name?

[Riverbrian]

Good news. I agree 100%. We do need relievers and a power bat.  

Before I get to excited. The definition of power would probably need to be established and I'll be curious to watch how they get one. 

I'm not sure there are reasonably priced sources of power in the free agent pile. 

I like O' Hearn as a hitter. However... O' Hearn has spent a career being heavily platooned.  The Padres put a stop to that platoon stuff so he has been hitting left handers for a couple of months. Is two months of work enough or do we need a 25% compliment? I really hope not but the search for power statement could be a Clemens handcuff so I'll await definition. 

They could trade for a power bat. However... if they are keeping Ryan, Lopez and Buxton... who do they trade for that power bat? Once you eliminate those three... they will have to dip into that prospect pool for decent trade value. 

Should they trade or acquire prospects? What will Erod fetch? 

 

[Chembry]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Good news. I agree 100%. We do need relievers and a power bat.  

Before I get to excited. The definition of power would probably need to be established and I'll be curious to watch how they get one. 

I'm not sure there are reasonably priced sources of power in the free agent pile. 

I like O' Hearn as a hitter. However... O' Hearn has spent a career being heavily platooned.  The Padres put a stop to that platoon stuff so he has been hitting left handers for a couple of months. Is two months of work enough or do we need a 25% compliment? I really hope not but the search for power statement could be a Clemens handcuff so I'll await definition. 

They could trade for a power bat. However... if they are keeping Ryan, Lopez and Buxton... who do they trade for that power bat? Once you eliminate those three... they will have to dip into that prospect pool for decent trade value. 

Should they trade or acquire prospects? What will Erod fetch? 

 

You summed up my questions exactly.  

1. We don't know what the Twins definition of a "power" hitter truly is.  The true power hitting free agents are going to be out of the Twins price range.  My pipe dream is Alonso, and yes I will keep dreaming.

2. The free agent names I mentioned (Hoskins, Lowe, O'Hearn, Okamoto) aren't true power hitters, but are far better than our current option and could still provide reasonable power.  I am not a big believer in Hoskins, but I think the other 3 would be a significant improvement. Okamoto is an unknown, but he is one of Japan's best hitters and still has 60 grade power.  I like Lowe because he doesn't have to be platooned, but yes he is a LHH 1B.  I am not big on Andujar, but he could be our RHH 1B.  I wouldn't want him to play anywhere else other than 1B/DH.  

3.  On the trade front, you summed up my feelings exactly.  It will be difficult to get a power bat without trading Ryan, Lopez, or Buxton, unless we dig into our prospects.  The only power hitting 1B what I would consider "cheaper" in terms of trade capital that I can think of off the top of my head is Casas.  Some will love him and some will hate him.  He has a big injury risk as well. 

4 hours ago, old nurse said:

Hoskins is so many years from glory days that it makes the Gallo signing seem logical

Lowe hit well in Texas, was traded for a reliever, pouted and hit poorly in Washington,   Then was back to baseline with Boston’s. They chose not to resign. An OPS+ of. 121. Somehow I suspect there is an attitude issue there. If there are no takers for his services it would still be a roll of the dice for what you would get 

o’hearn might be the best but most costly option

I don’t know much about etc  Is he related to e.e cummings, who. Is now obscure enough that AI wasn’t to misspell his name?

I agree on Hoskins.  I don't think he is the answer either.  I think Boston DFA'd Lowe for two reasons. 

1. He isn't worth the $13M salary that was predicted in arbitration

2. The Red Sox are pursuing Alonso and Murakami.  They currently have Casas as a back up option.   

[Cory Engelhardt]

If they are going the trade route, I'm going to throw out that Yandy Diaz from Tampa would be really fun to have here. Plus being a free agent after 2026, he SHOULDN'T break the bank in terms of trade assets. They've certainly made a number of deals with Tampa before too.

[Riverbrian]

30 minutes ago, Chembry said:

3.  On the trade front, you summed up my feelings exactly.  It will be difficult to get a power bat without trading Ryan, Lopez, or Buxton, unless we dig into our prospects.

Not always but trades tend to be Prospect for Vet or Vet for Prospect. 

Every once in awhile you find a match on a Vet for Vet or Prospect for Prospect. 

So... If you are trading a prospect that limits your options to the team collecting them.

There seems to be a low number of those teams this off-season according to the rumors. The Twins may not actually be looking for prospects if you believe the rumors. 

In the American League... The White Sox may be the only team looking for youth. In the National League... It may only be the Nats and Rockies with rumors of the Pirates being aggressive in the free agent market looking for hitting and the Marlins trying to move pitching for hitters. 

 

[Brandon]

Definitely Schwarber.  He is the new Nelson Cruz and he needs to hit here.  But probably after his upcoming 4-5 year contract.  He is only 33 at this time.  

Frim what’s been said so far,  I will go with Casas or Hoskins.  O’Hearn would need to come cheaper than he could likely get elsewhere.  

[bunsen82]

I am ok with using some prospect capital for trade.  I always felt we would need to use some just to get the big league team back to a competitive level.   The minor league system will still be better than prior to the trade deadline selloff.  

[old nurse]

2 hours ago, Chembry said:

You summed up my questions exactly.  

1. We don't know what the Twins definition of a "power" hitter truly is.  The true power hitting free agents are going to be out of the Twins price range.  My pipe dream is Alonso, and yes I will keep dreaming.

2. The free agent names I mentioned (Hoskins, Lowe, O'Hearn, Okamoto) aren't true power hitters, but are far better than our current option and could still provide reasonable power.  I am not a big believer in Hoskins, but I think the other 3 would be a significant improvement. Okamoto is an unknown, but he is one of Japan's best hitters and still has 60 grade power.  I like Lowe because he doesn't have to be platooned, but yes he is a LHH 1B.  I am not big on Andujar, but he could be our RHH 1B.  I wouldn't want him to play anywhere else other than 1B/DH.  

3.  On the trade front, you summed up my feelings exactly.  It will be difficult to get a power bat without trading Ryan, Lopez, or Buxton, unless we dig into our prospects.  The only power hitting 1B what I would consider "cheaper" in terms of trade capital that I can think of off the top of my head is Casas.  Some will love him and some will hate him.  He has a big injury risk as well. 

I agree on Hoskins.  I don't think he is the answer either.  I think Boston DFA'd Lowe for two reasons. 

1. He isn't worth the $13M salary that was predicted in arbitration

2. The Red Sox are pursuing Alonso and Murakami.  They currently have Casas as a back up option.   

The term power bat is a nebulous term. Does it mean 30+ hr, 25 HR. Slugging% > some number.   Eye. Test?  Potential or actual past production?  

[Major League Ready]

1 hour ago, bunsen82 said:

I am ok with using some prospect capital for trade.  I always felt we would need to use some just to get the big league team back to a competitive level.   The minor league system will still be better than prior to the trade deadline selloff.  

Unless they are willing to spend at record levels, investing good prospect capital in this team would indicate they are either incompetent or perfectly satisfied to put a mediocre product on the field year after year.   I am not saying they won't trade good prospects and not spend but it would be to appease fans because it certainly is not the best strategy if they want to actually contend.  I have wondered if people were right about their lack of desire to build a serious contender.  This off-season will make it clear if they are satisfied to be a perennial fringe playoff team.

[bunsen82]

18 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Unless they are willing to spend at record levels, investing good prospect capital in this team would indicate they are either incompetent or perfectly satisfied to put a mediocre product on the field year after year.   I am not saying they won't trade good prospects and not spend but it would be to appease fans because it certainly is not the best strategy if they want to actually contend.  I have wondered if people were right about their lack of desire to build a serious contender.  This off-season will make it clear if they are satisfied to be a perennial fringe playoff team.

I stand by they will continue try to put a decent product on the field and I wouldn't call it mediocre either.  As constructed currently they are an 80 win team potentially.  2 more solid relievers,  a good bat and they could compete especially if the hitters overall perform better than they have the last couple of years.   

I don't know if its the right philosophy or not.  With tanking they got prospects, a decent pick in the rule 5 draft, and we will see which draft slot they get here this afternoon and some salary relief that can be used to get a few players.  I still think they are ahead in the grand scheme of things as an organization - not necessarily for win totals for this year.  Its what I thought they would do all along.  They appear to be willing to play games based on the projections on draft is what it appears to me.   

To me they continue trying to put a good product on the field,  while bolstering the minor leagues.   We are still a tad light on the elite elite prospects - with Jenkins being our only one with questions on Tait and Rodriguez.  

[howeda7]

If we're going to address 1B with limited funds, I'd rather embrace small ball and bring back Luis Arreaz. He won't cost more than $10 million IMO and is a perfect #2 hitter. The power will have to come from Royce/Buck/Wallner etc. 

[Major League Ready]

20 hours ago, bunsen82 said:

I stand by they will continue try to put a decent product on the field and I wouldn't call it mediocre either.  As constructed currently they are an 80 win team potentially.  2 more solid relievers,  a good bat and they could compete especially if the hitters overall perform better than they have the last couple of years.   

I don't know if its the right philosophy or not.  With tanking they got prospects, a decent pick in the rule 5 draft, and we will see which draft slot they get here this afternoon and some salary relief that can be used to get a few players.  I still think they are ahead in the grand scheme of things as an organization - not necessarily for win totals for this year.  Its what I thought they would do all along.  They appear to be willing to play games based on the projections on draft is what it appears to me.   

To me they continue trying to put a good product on the field,  while bolstering the minor leagues.   We are still a tad light on the elite elite prospects - with Jenkins being our only one with questions on Tait and Rodriguez.  

We all have our opinions as to how many games they would win "as constructed".   We also have an actual performance record for one-third of a season "as constructed".  They performed at a 57 win pace so how do you come to the opinion that they are an 80-win team?  That's a very large gap.  The only way to come to that conclusion is to assume, several mediocre performers become markedly better, the acquisitions you suggest work-out extremely well, Ryan, Lopez stay healthy and a couple other guys step-up because Ober did not look like he is part of the solution, and everyone stays healthy.   

Hey, it can happen which is the cool thing about baseball for fans.  However, a front office managing to these assumptions is incompetent unless of course you get extremely lucky.

[MGX]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

We all have our opinions as to how many games they would win "as constructed".   We also have an actual performance record for one-third of a season "as constructed".  They performed at a 57 win so how do you come to the opinion that they are an 80-win team?  That's a very large gap.  The only way to come to that conclusion is to assume, several mediocre performers become markedly better, the acquisitions you suggest work-out extremely well, Ryan, Lopez stay healthy and a couple other guys step-up because Ober did not look like he is part of the solution, and everyone stays healthy.   

Hey, it can happen which is the cool thing about baseball for fans.  However, front offices managing to these assumptions is incompetent unless of course you get extremely lucky.

The 57 win clip after the deadline is kind of meaningless considering who pitched for the Twins out of the bullpen.

I'm not saying I think they are or aren't an 80 win team right now, but Fangraphs projected an 82 win team & while I don't agree with that completely the biggest discrepancy I saw was Brooks Lee whom they have as the starting SS & earning 2 WAR. Even if he is at 0 WAR & there off on a couple others they still likely project to a 75-80 win team currently. 

[bunsen82]

10 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

We all have our opinions as to how many games they would win "as constructed".   We also have an actual performance record for one-third of a season "as constructed".  They performed at a 57 win so how do you come to the opinion that they are an 80-win team?  That's a very large gap.  The only way to come to that conclusion is to assume, several mediocre performers become markedly better, the acquisitions you suggest work-out extremely well, Ryan, Lopez stay healthy and a couple other guys step-up because Ober did not look like he is part of the solution, and everyone stays healthy.   

Hey, it can happen which is the cool thing about baseball for fans.  However, front offices managing to these assumptions is incompetent unless of course you get extremely lucky.

80-82 wins is projected by Fangraphs.   

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Standings

As to the end of the season,  the team had semi quit.  I don't anticipate to blow as many leads as we did last year, and we were generally playing with a minimum of 2 non competitive hitters in the lineup most days.  Vasquez played a lot, and add in Gasper, Julien, Outman and Fitzgerald.  I don't anticipate they will get nearly as many at bats this season.   

[Major League Ready]

23 minutes ago, MGX said:

The 57 win clip after the deadline is kind of meaningless considering who pitched for the Twins out of the bullpen.

I'm not saying I think they are or aren't an 80 win team right now, but Fangraphs projected an 82 win team & while I don't agree with that completely the biggest discrepancy I saw was Brooks Lee whom they have as the starting SS & earning 2 WAR. Even is he is at 0 WAR & there off on a couple others they still likely project to a 75-80 win team currently. 

I wish I could bet on an over/under of 82 wins as constructed but they won't be "as constructed".  

[Chembry]

19 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

80-82 wins is projected by Fangraphs.   

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Standings

As to the end of the season,  the team had semi quit.  I don't anticipate to blow as many leads as we did last year, and we were generally playing with a minimum of 2 non competitive hitters in the lineup most days.  Vasquez played a lot, and add in Gasper, Julien, Outman and Fitzgerald.  I don't anticipate they will get nearly as many at bats this season.   

I kept a running tally of how many games the bullpen blew after the deadline.  The Twins blew 19 leads or ties in the 6th inning or later after the deadline. Some of them didn't count in the loss column because they came back and won a few of those games.  Some of those types of games are going to happen, but let's say they only blow 9 leads...well now they are closer to .500 overall and over .500 after the deadline. 

This team really isn't as far off as people think.  The bullpen was the big problem after the deadline and will be the problem heading into 2026.  

[Doctor Wu]

17 hours ago, howeda7 said:

If we're going to address 1B with limited funds, I'd rather embrace small ball and bring back Luis Arreaz. He won't cost more than $10 million IMO and is a perfect #2 hitter. The power will have to come from Royce/Buck/Wallner etc. 

Small ball is fine by me. Get more guys on base, run the bases better, get some stolen bases and more clutch hits, and maybe, just maybe, we can score more runs. Home runs are sexy, but the power numbers are usually negated by too many strikeouts. 

[Doctor Wu]

15 hours ago, Chembry said:

This team really isn't as far off as people think.

I agree with that too. Outside of getting rid of Correa (and his contract) and of course losing basically half of the bullpen, we still have most our core remaining. Of course, any major trades might nullify the idea that we can compete this season. But If players like Lewis, Lee, and Wallner can hit better than last season, and the bulk of our starting rotation stays, I don't see why we can't have a winning season ... but only if we add two or three dependable arms to the bullpen. Honestly, I don't think it's the insurmountable task that some people make it out to be. Sure, a lot has to go right (can Buxton stay healthy, for example), but I remain optimistic. 

[bunsen82]

The only concern I have is the relief market free agents has already been incredibly picked over.  

If you are going to get a closer- the best value left is Fairbanks who has a wide spectrum of expected salaries- some thinking needing a 2 year 18-20 million deal - other 3 years 43 million.   

[chpettit19]

18 hours ago, bunsen82 said:

80-82 wins is projected by Fangraphs.   

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Standings

As to the end of the season,  the team had semi quit.  I don't anticipate to blow as many leads as we did last year, and we were generally playing with a minimum of 2 non competitive hitters in the lineup most days.  Vasquez played a lot, and add in Gasper, Julien, Outman and Fitzgerald.  I don't anticipate they will get nearly as many at bats this season.   

Who do you anticipate is going to be getting the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning roles to stop this team from blowing so many leads? Who do you anticipate is going to be getting the Gasper, Julien, Outman, and Fitzgerald ABs?

Vazquez only had 27 PAs after the deadline, so he played no role in that 57-win pace. Outman and Julien are out of options. Fitzgerald and Kreidler are the only 2 guys on the 40-man capable of being a utility IF who can back up SS. 

Do you have any reason to anticipate a significant improvement in play from what this team did in August and September that isn't 90% predicated on the current players simply playing better?

[bunsen82]

28 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Who do you anticipate is going to be getting the 7th, 8th, and 9th inning roles to stop this team from blowing so many leads? Who do you anticipate is going to be getting the Gasper, Julien, Outman, and Fitzgerald ABs?

Vazquez only had 27 PAs after the deadline, so he played no role in that 57-win pace. Outman and Julien are out of options. Fitzgerald and Kreidler are the only 2 guys on the 40-man capable of being a utility IF who can back up SS. 

Do you have any reason to anticipate a significant improvement in play from what this team did in August and September that isn't 90% predicated on the current players simply playing better?

I still anticipate 1 closer/fireman type.  Rogers, Jansen, Fairbanks.   

Then 1 more solid reliever traded for or signed.  I would be ok with a reunion for Theilbar or Coloumbe

Bullpen

1. Fairbanks (2 yrs 20 million)

2. Sands

3. Theilbar ( yrs 5 million)

4. Orze

5. Funderburk

6. Topa

7. Klein

8. Ohl/Adams/Morris/Raya ect.  

 

So yes the 19 blown leads after the deadline - I expect to be cut down significantly with a similarly constructed bullpen.  The bats weren't that bad for the primary players after the deadline.  It was the 4-5 deadweight players we continued to give run and a lot of empty at bats too,  and yes I expect the majority of those players to be off the 40 man by the end of the offseason.  Gasper will be gone.  I expect 1 more power bat signing (although likely a misnomer for the $ range they are looking at).   1 of Kreidler or Outman will be off the 40 man or 26 man roster - I would not be surprised if 1 is on.  Julien has 1 last gasp left before he is likely booted from the 40 man as well.   

C. Jeffers

1st  Clemens

2nd Keaschall

SS - Lee/???? 

3rd Lewis

CF - Buxton

RF - Wallner

LF - Roden/Larnach/Martin

 

To me Lee is the biggest question mark and most likely underperformer for the position.  If he can be a 1-2 WAR player - and Lewis decides to not pull everything - yes I do think this team could be a very solid team.  You have reinforcements and new blood coming in Rodriguez, Jenkins, and Culpepper.  The starters look legit.  

As to empty at bats in August and September - Vazquez 27, Gasper 67, Kiersey 7, Fitzgerald 50, Outman 104, Roden 40, Perada 40.  There is probably a few more.  That is 335 at bats to waiver level players.  That isn't even including Clemens who was a waiver wire claim.  If you enter with the philosophy the goal was to lose a lot to get a better pick then yes you can see a path forward to some solid baseball.   Especially with the starters we have.  

[chpettit19]

57 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

I still anticipate 1 closer/fireman type.  Rogers, Jansen, Fairbanks.   

Then 1 more solid reliever traded for or signed.  I would be ok with a reunion for Theilbar or Coloumbe

Bullpen

1. Fairbanks (2 yrs 20 million)

2. Sands

3. Theilbar ( yrs 5 million)

4. Orze

5. Funderburk

6. Topa

7. Klein

8. Ohl/Adams/Morris/Raya ect.  

 

So yes the 19 blown leads after the deadline - I expect to be cut down significantly with a similarly constructed bullpen.  The bats weren't that bad for the primary players after the deadline.  It was the 4-5 deadweight players we continued to give run and a lot of empty at bats too,  and yes I expect the majority of those players to be off the 40 man by the end of the offseason.  Gasper will be gone.  I expect 1 more power bat signing (although likely a misnomer for the $ range they are looking at).   1 of Kreidler or Outman will be off the 40 man or 26 man roster - I would not be surprised if 1 is on.  Julien has 1 last gasp left before he is likely booted from the 40 man as well.   

C. Jeffers

1st  Clemens

2nd Keaschall

SS - Lee/???? 

3rd Lewis

CF - Buxton

RF - Wallner

LF - Roden/Larnach/Martin

 

To me Lee is the biggest question mark and most likely underperformer for the position.  If he can be a 1-2 WAR player - and Lewis decides to not pull everything - yes I do think this team could be a very solid team.  You have reinforcements and new blood coming in Rodriguez, Jenkins, and Culpepper.  The starters look legit.  

As to empty at bats in August and September - Vazquez 27, Gasper 67, Kiersey 7, Fitzgerald 50, Outman 104, Roden 40, Perada 40.  There is probably a few more.  That is 335 at bats to waiver level players.  That isn't even including Clemens who was a waiver wire claim.  If you enter with the philosophy the goal was to lose a lot to get a better pick then yes you can see a path forward to some solid baseball.   Especially with the starters we have.  

The guys you list as starters that you believe are going to lead to the team performing better than August and September had 1585 PAs during that stretch. I think you're significantly overweighing the effect those 335 PAs had on the offense during those months. They were less than 20% (17.4 if you want to get more specific) of the PAs. Which is 1.5 spots in a batting order. Essentially they had useless 8/9 hitters in half the games and a useless 9 hitter the other half. The offense struggled because the guys you're counting on struggled.

I can certainly see a path to "solid baseball," but I stick by the idea that it is essentially relying on all those guys you listed as starters hitting their 90th percentile performance and staying healthy. Or all the prospects coming up and being immediate impact players. I think those odds are very low. Is it possible? Absolutely. Is it likely? I don't think so.

[bunsen82]

11 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

They were less than 20% (17.4 if you want to get more specific) of the PAs. Which is 1.5 spots in a batting order. Essentially they had useless 8/9 hitters in half the games and a useless 9 hitter the other half. The offense struggled because the guys you're counting on struggled.

 

Have you ever coached baseball?  Anyways I have helped on Little League all stars and travel ball.  We were running early last season in travel ball with an 11-12 man line up.  The bottom 3 were effectively empty at bats.   We just couldn't generate enough offense.  We would get to those 3 and you would effectively lose an entire inning.   Yes they were just 25% of the at bats.  We were generally only getting through the lineup 2 times.  

We then did a tournament where we had lost a player and 2 were gone for all stars.  We had a 9 man lineup with 1 questionable at bat.  We were getting through the lineup 3-4 times.  Kids were getting more at bats,  they were confident and we played so much better.  We effectively run 6 innings vs a 9 inning game.  As to the game if we kept doing the math my guess is we were running at least 2 at bats every game of questionable at bats and some 3.   If you are running 2-3 questionable at bats in a lineup a game -  you are shortening your lineup and potential run production so much.   Just my opinion.   Those other 7 batters can be much more productive when they know they have more support and they have 3-4 at bats to do damage rather than 2-3.   Plus you are putting so much more stress on the opposing teams pitching staff rather than effectively giving them 6-9 guaranteed outs.   

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Have you ever coached baseball?  Anyways I have helped on Little League all stars and travel ball.  We were running early last season in travel ball with an 11-12 man line up.  The bottom 3 were effectively empty at bats.   We just couldn't generate enough offense.  We would get to those 3 and you would effectively lose an entire inning.   Yes they were just 25% of the at bats.  We were generally only getting through the lineup 2 times.  

We then did a tournament where we had lost a player and 2 were gone for all stars.  We had a 9 man lineup with 1 questionable at bat.  We were getting through the lineup 3-4 times.  Kids were getting more at bats,  they were confident and we played so much better.  We effectively run 6 innings vs a 9 inning game.   If you are running 2-3 questionable at bats in a lineup a game -  you are shortening your lineup and potential run production so much.   Just my opinion.   Those other 7 batters can be much more productive when they know they have more support and they have 3-4 at bats to do damage rather than 2-3.  

Good thing the majors don't have 11-12 man lineups because you go on to layout exactly what I just said the Twins had. They had "1 questionable at bat" (according to your professed quality starting lineup) for most of the last 2 months and still couldn't score. The Twins weren't "running 2-3 questionable at bats" according to your professed starting lineup of players they can/should count on. You're making my argument for me.

Your post from the draft lottery thread starts out "The team last year with all the players tanked the season.  They were a below average team with a winning percentage below .500 at the trade deadline." All the guys you have listed as starters, outside of Roden and Martin, were part of that group that was "below .500 at the trade deadline." They replaced Correa, Bader, and Castro. And Martin was actually one of their best hitters after the deadline so he absolutely wasn't a "questionable at bat." 

At the end of the day, you are expecting sustained health and performance from Buck, Jeffers, Keaschall, and Martin and improved play from Clemens, Lee, Lewis, Wallner, Larnach, Roden while then also expecting Jenkins, Emma, and Culpepper hit the ground running when they're needed. While also expecting the rotation to stay mostly healthy (a loss of Lopez or Ryan would crush their rotation) and the pen to also have 4-6 guys, minimum, have improved performance or be rookies who step right in and succeed.

Your statement about them being under .500 at the deadline should carry more weight in your assessment of the 2026 team, in my opinion. Because you're laying out the majority of that team and then saying that they can/will compete in 2026 even though they didn't in 2025 because they'll bring in Peter Fairbanks, Caleb Thielbar, and Eric Orze to replace Jhoan Duran, Griffin Jax, and Louie Varland.

[bunsen82]

18 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

 They were less than 20% (17.4 if you want to get more specific) of the PAs. Which is 1.5 spots in a batting order. Essentially they had useless 8/9 hitters in half the games and a useless 9 hitter the other half. The offense struggled because the guys you're counting on struggled.

 

Lets just go a quick run through the 1st week of games after the deadline.  

3rd - Martin 5 at bats, Julien 4, Vazquez 4

4th - Martin 4, Roden 3, Julien 3

5th - Martin 4, Vazquez 3

6th - Roden 5, Julien/Martin 4, Gasper 4

8th - Roden 5, Julien/Martin 3, Gasper 3

9th - Martin -5, McCusker 3, Gasper 3, Roden 3  

 

You are going to have players you are seeing if they are big league players but we were running 3 or more questionable at bats most game.  Yes Vazquez got hurt,  but then Pereda and Outman started getting a lot more run.    Of the players we gave an opportunity to,  Martin does look like a usable player.  

[bunsen82]

1 minute ago, chpettit19 said:

Good thing the majors don't have 11-12 man lineups because you go on to layout exactly what I just said the Twins had. They had "1 questionable at bat" (according to your professed quality starting lineup) for most of the last 2 months and still couldn't score. The Twins weren't "running 2-3 questionable at bats" according to your professed starting lineup of players they can/should count on. You're making my argument for me.

 

Go look at the lineups Chpettit- those lineups are not MLB lineups we were running out there.   

[chpettit19]

5 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Lets just go a quick run through the 1st week of games after the deadline.  

3rd - Martin 5 at bats, Julien 4, Vazquez 4

4th - Martin 4, Roden 3, Julien 3

5th - Martin 4, Vazquez 3

6th - Roden 5, Julien/Martin 4, Gasper 4

8th - Roden 5, Julien/Martin 3, Gasper 3

9th - Martin -5, McCusker 3, Gasper 3, Roden 3  

 

You are going to have players you are seeing if they are big league players but we were running 3 or more questionable at bats most game.  Yes Vazquez got hurt,  but then Pereda and Outman started getting a lot more run.    Of the players we gave an opportunity to,  Martin does look like a usable player.  

But you're calling Roden and Martin starters this year on a team you believe can contend. You can't claim they were questionable at bats and also that they are part of why we should have hope. 

I already gave you the numbers. Of the players you've claimed were the problem and won't be getting as many PAs this year, they accounted for 17.4% of the PAs. Trying to cut it down to 1 week and change the argument isn't going to sneak past me. They were 1.5 spots in the lineup.

[bunsen82]

10th-  Martin 5, Roden/Julien 4, Gasper 3, Fitzgerald 4

11th -  Julien 3,  Fitzgerald/Martin 3

12th - Martin 4, Roden 1, Gasper 3, Julien 3 Fitgerald 3   ( What a throwaway game - 4 AAAA batters)  

13th - Roden 4 (1st decent lineup and a win) 

14th -  Martin 5, Roden 4,  Julien/Gasper 4   

 

 

 

 

[chpettit19]

4 minutes ago, bunsen82 said:

Go look at the lineups Chpettit- those lineups are not MLB lineups we were running out there.   

I agree! The point is that they all included 7 or 8 of the guys you're now claiming are reason to believe this team will be able to contend.