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Posted
Image courtesy of Ed Bailey, Wichita Wind Surge (photo of Kaelen Culpepper)

 

TRANSACTIONS
There was a bunch of movement in the system on Monday and Tuesday as each of the full season affiliates began the second halves of their seasons.

  • With St. Paul RHP Pierson Ohl was promoted from Wichita, and made his triple-A debut on Tuesday. RHP Connor Gillespie was optioned to the Saints and RHP Jose Urena activated. 2B Mickey Gasper was placed on the injured list with bilateral plantar fasciitis.
  • The Wind Surge activated RHP John Stankiewicz from the 7-day injured list.
  • After a rehab stint, 3B Billy Amick was activated from the 7-day injured list for the Kernels, while they also sent LHP Rafael Marcano on a rehab assignment with the FCL Twins.
  • In Fort Myers C Ricardo Pena was put on the 7-day injured list with a lower back injury, sent RHP Anthony Narvaez and C Rafael Escalante on rehab assignments in the FCL, and received C Javier Roman from the FCL to fill in.

SAINTS SENTINEL
Louisville 1, St. Paul 6
Box Score
The Saints got a very good triple-A debut from right-hander Pierson Ohl, who held the Bats scoreless in his four innings. He allowed only weak contact all outing, scattering just three hits and no walks, while striking out one. He threw 54 pitches, with 40 of them going for strikes (74%). While there was only one strikeout, he did rack up eight swings and misses, with six of those coming on his changeup, which was obviously his go-to pitch. Never really being known for his velocity, Ohl was 91-94 MPH with his fastball, demonstrating that his velocity really isn’t a concern, especially when he’s dotting his changeup like Brad Radke.

St. Paul took a 3-0 lead in the bottom of the second inning after Ryan Fitzgerald led off with a double. He moved to third on a groundout before Aaron Sabato brought him in with an RBI single for the game’s first run. Two batters later Noah Cardenas launched his third home with the Saints to add on.

They put up another three-spot in the bottom of the fifth, with Edouard Julien leading off with a solo home run, his sixth of the year with the Saints. Don’t look now, but Julien is batting .324/.457/.581 (1.038) with five home runs and 12 RBI in 21 June games. Carson McCusker hit another two-run shot later in the inning to make it 6-0.

Michael Tonkin was credited with the win after chipping in three innings out of the bullpen. He was charged with the Bats lone earned run, a solo homer, and allowed just two other hits, while striking out two. Cody Laweryson closed out the final two innings, giving up two hits, a walk, and striking out one.

Julien (3-for-4, R, HR, RBI, K) and Sabato (2-for-4, R, 2B, RBI, K) had multiple hits to lead the offense. Payton Eeles finished 0-for-1 with a run scored, sac bunt, walk, and was hit by a pitch.

WIND SURGE WISDOM
Springfield 0, Wichita 3
Box Score
Starter Christian MacLeod and the Wind Surge bullpen held the Cardinals to just five hits on the game, and pitched a shutout in the process, while all of their offense came courtesy of solo home runs.

The left-handed MacLeod went the first three innings, scattering three hits and a walk, while striking out two to lower his ERA to 2.05 so far on the season in double-A.

Wichita got the first of their three home runs in the bottom of the second inning from Nate Baez, his second of the year. Kyler Fedko led off the bottom of the sixth with his 13th of the season to make it 2-0. Then finally in the bottom of the seventh, Kaelen Culpepper led off the inning with his first homer with the Wind Surge to make the final score.

The bullpen trio of Jacob Wosinski (W, 2 IP, 2 H, 2 BB), Mike Paredes (3 IP, 3 K), and Tanner Andrews (S, 1 IP, 2 K) combined to retire the final 13 Cardinals hitters of the game, and secure the win.

The Wind Surge got multiple hit efforts from Gabriel Gonzalez (2-for-4, 2 2B, K) and Baez (2-for-4, R, 3B, HR, RBI). Kala’i Rosario reached base four times with three walks. Walker Jenkins batted third and had a single and three strikeouts in four at-bats. As a team Wichita was 0-for-10 with runners in scoring position and left 10 men on base for the game, but they got plenty of power when the bases were empty.

KERNELS NUGGETS
South Bend 10, Cedar Rapids 6
Box Score
The Cubs and Kernels traded single runs back and forth in the second and third innings, before two in the third put the visiting team out front for good.

Starter Ty Langenberg went the first four innings, and was charged with those four runs (three earned) on three hits and three walks. He struck out two. Of his 78 pitches, just 43 went for strikes (55%).

Poncho Ruiz delivered an RBI single in the bottom of the second, and Billy Amick (in his first game off the IL) added an RBI single in the third to keep pace the first three innings.

Paulshawn Pasqualotto came on to start the fifth and delivered a scoreless inning, but the sixth was not nearly as kind. Six consecutive batters reached base before he was lifted, and he ended up charged with five runs (four earned) of his own in 1 1/3 innings pitched. Hunter Hoopes came in to get the final two outs, then also finished the seventh. He gave up a solo homer and struck out one. Nick Trabacchi retired all six Cubs he faced to finish the game, adding a strikeout.

The Kernels were able to add a pair of runs in each of the sixth and seventh innings, but it would not be enough. An RBI double from Andy Lugo and sac fly from Caden Kendle came in the sixth, while a RBI doubles from Kyle DeBarge and Kyle Hess made the final score.

Ruiz was the only batter with multiple hits, finishing 2-for-4 with the RBI. As a team they totaled seven hits and six walks, leaving seven men on base for the game.

While they may have lost their first game of the second half, the Kernels punched their ticket to the Midwest League playoffs in the first half by winning the division.

MUSSEL MATTERS
Fort Myers 3, Tampa 6
Box Score
The Tampa Tarpons scored four runs in the first two innings against Mighty Mussels starter Jason Doktorczyk that would be enough in the end. Doktorczyk, to his credit, did finish five innings, but was charged with all of the Tarpons' runs. He allowed seven hits, walked two, and struck out four.

Fort Myers got on the scoreboard in the fourth inning after Demeury Pena led off with a double. Two groundouts later he crossed home plate and it was 4-1. In the top of the sixth Pena again reached base to lead it off before a two out walk, stolen base, and two-run single from Blaze O’Saben pulled them within three.

That would be it for the offense, however, as the Mighty Mussels picked up just four hits as a team, with three of them coming from one player, and went an abysmal 1-for-11 with runners in scoring position.

Lefty Zander Sechrist held Tampa scoreless over the final three innings, allowing one hit, walking two, and striking out three.

O’Saben finished 3-for-3 with two RBI, a walk, and a stolen base to basically account for all of the Mighty Mussels offense on the night. Daniel Pena drew a walk and drove in one.

COMPLEX CHRONICLES
Monday: FCL Twins 5, FCL Rays 2
Box Score
The Twins got a solid effort from starting pitcher Joel Garcia, who set down seven hitters in his 4 2/3 innings. He was charged with two earned runs on five hits, and gave way to Andrew Huffman, who was credited with his fourth win in seven appearances with 1 1/3 scoreless innings to complete the sixth. He allowed one hit. Fellow relievers Anthony Narvaez (1 IP, BB), Leonardo Rondon (1/3 IP, 2 BB, K), and Brent Francisco (1 2/3 IP, H, K) finished out the final three scoreless innings. Narvaez and Rondon each picked up their first hold, while Francisco notched his third save.

The Twins offense ambushed the Rays in the top of the first inning for four runs. Ramiro Dominguez delivered the big blow, a three-run homer, his second of the season. Dominguez finished 2-for-4 with a double in addition.

Rehabbers Austin Martin and Emmanuel Rodriguez occupied the top of the lineup. Martin was 0-for-3 with a walk and a K. Rodriguez was 1-for-4 with a run scored and a pair of strikeouts.

Tuesday: FCL Twins 6, FCL Braves 7
Box Score
Rodriguez and Martin swapped spots in the lineup on Tuesday, and both picked up a pair of hits. Rodriguez was 2-for-3 with a double, walk, and two runs scored. Martin 2-for-5 with an RBI, stolen base, and one strikeout. They were the only hitters in the lineup with multiple hits. Luis Fragoza chipped in his sixth double and two stolen bases, while Ricardo Paez delivered an RBI triple.

Seven pitchers made an appearance in this one, with Erasmo Ramirez leading the way with two scoreless innings. He walked one and struck out one. Yoel Roque (1 IP, H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 2 K) and Julio Bonilla (1 IP, 2 H, ER) pitched the first two frames. Rafael Marcano (1/3 IP, 2 H, ER, BB, K), Aiberson Ventura (1 2/3 IP, H, 3 K), Mitch Mueller (1 IP, H), and Anderson Ramos (1 IP, H ER, 2 BB, K) finished off the final five innings after Ramirez. Ramos was charged with the loss after giving up the go-ahead run in the eighth.

DOMINICAN DAILIES
Monday: DSL Twins 5, DSL Phillies White 3
Box Score
The Twins scored three runs in the top of the first by mixing three singles in with a sac fly and a Phillies error. They were able to take the win as they added single runs in the sixth and eighth frames. Teilon Serrano (2-for-5, R, 2 K), Carlos Taveras (2-for-5, RBI, K), and Jhomnardo Reyes (2-for-4, RBI, K) each chipped in two hits. Dencer Diaz added a double, walk, and RBI.

Three pitchers went two-plus innings in the win, with starter Omar Montano being responsible for all of the Phillies runs. He went the first 3 2/3 innings, and was charged with three runs (two earned) on two hits and two walks, while striking out four. Jensi Infante picked up his first win with 2 1/3 scoreless innings, allowing one hit, one walk, and striking out two. Agustin Campusano picked up his first save by closing out the final three innings. He gave up two hits and struck out two.

Tuesday: DSL Phillies White 11, DSL Twins 6
Box Score
A big third inning from the Phillies spelled doom for the Twins in this one, even though they scored four runs of their own in the frame.

Starting pitcher Jeicol Surumay had two scoreless innings in the books before the Phillies got him in the third. He finished 2 1/3 innings, and allowed five earned runs on two hits and four walks by the time he was done. He struck out three. Greidi Pina was charged with three earned runs of his own in the eight-run third from the Phillies, but got the final two outs, including a K. Nestor Cafe (1 IP, BB, 3 K), Diego Rosal (3 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 2 K), and Juan Quinones (2 IP, 3 H, R, 2 K) finished the final six innings.

The Twins had just five hits, but did manage to score six runs thanks to 11 walks. Yovanny Duran led the way with two singles and a walk in five plate appearances, stole a base, and drove in two. Jameson Val drove in two with a single in the third inning.

TWINS DAILY MINOR LEAGUE PLAYERS OF THE DAY
Pitcher of the Day – Mike Paredes, Wichita Wind Surge (3 IP, 3 K)
Hitter of the Day – Edouard Julien, St. Paul Saints (3-for-4, R, HR, RBI, K)

PROSPECT SUMMARY
Check out the Prospect Tracker for much more on our Twins Top 20 prospects, which was recently updated!

#1 – Walker Jenkins (Wichita): 1-for-4, 3 K
#3 – Emmanuel Rodriguez (Rehab w/FCL Twins): 3-for-7, 3 R, 2B, BB, 2 K (2 games)
#4 – Kaelen Culpepper (Wichita): 1-for-4, R, HR (1), RBI, BB, K
#9 – Brandon Winokur (Cedar Rapids): 0-for-4, BB, 2 K, SB (18)
#10 – Kyle DeBarge (Cedar Rapids): 1-for-5, R, RBI, SB (39)
#12 – Billy Amick (Cedar Rapids): 1-for-5, RBI, 2 K
#13 – Gabriel Gonzalez (Wichita): 2-for-4, 2 2B, K
#15 – Eduardo Beltre (FCL Twins): 0-for-6, R, 2 RBI, BB, 2 K (2 games)
#18 – Ricardo Olivar (Wichita): 0-for-3, BB
#20 – Payton Eeles (St. Paul): 0-for-1, R, BB

WEDNESDAY’S PROBABLE STARTERS
Louisville @ St. Paul (1:07 PM CDT) - RHP Trent Baker (1-0, 5.79 ERA)
Springfield @ Wichita (7:05 PM CDT) - RHP John Klein (4-4, 3.23 ERA)
South Bend @ Cedar Rapids (12:05 PM CDT) - RHP Chase Chaney (5-1, 3.35 ERA)
Fort Myers @ Tampa (4:00 PM CDT) - LHP Michael Carpenter (0-3, 4.79 ERA)

Please feel free to ask questions and discuss Tuesday’s games!

 


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Posted

Another day, another multi-hit game for GG. that's (checks notes) 12 since being called up to Wichita in 28 games. Dude is just raking. Nice to see some xbh's in the mix lately too. Really impressed with him this season, and Twins have to be thrilled with his development at the plate.

Julien does seem to have himself back on track at the plate. He's showing his customary patience, is making good contact, and has added some pop back in so it's not just slapping singles around. I'm not sure many will agree, but I'd rather see Julien back up than keep dinking around with Bride, who has 1 hit in June, isn't in the team's plans, and most impactful role seems to be soft-tossing a few innings in a blowout.

Happy to see Amick back in Cedar Rapids. Looking forward to seeing what some of those hitters do in the second half and if anyone else gets promoted to Wichita. (DeBarge? He keeps swiping bases too)

Posted

Julien should be playing first base everyday to see if it's a viable option if we decide to trade France. I'm also curious about the pitching philosophy. Why are our SP only throwing 3-4 innings? If they make it to MLB they need to be able to go deeper, but if they haven't been conditioned to ever do that, how can we expect them to do it when they get the call. You can't use handfuls of pitchers everyday it's not viable. I'm real worried about our pitching prospects. The supposed pitching pipeline sure seems to have dried up FAST. At least we have a few guys raking. Gonzalez and Culpeper have been fun to watch. If only Jenkins and Rodriguez could start hitting like them we'd be in good shape ;)

Posted
3 hours ago, Jeff K said:

Given the terrible play by the parent club, the minor league reports are far and away the most interesting to me.  Julien's bat is heating up.  If only he had a position he could field.  Kaelen Culpepper continues to impress.

If we trade Larnach or Wallner he can DH, harmlessly staying off the dirt.

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted
1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

I do not understand this "everyone pitches 3 innings" strategy. What is the end goal? Do they want to have 13 middle relievers on the roster with every game a bullpen game?

It's a weird thing for me... Part of me says they're working on "maximizing" pitcher effectiveness. They hate starters going deep into games already, so if they get 4 or 5 innings out of one they may think having guys like this can extend their bullpen. 4-5 from the starter, 2-3 from these types, then the studs shut it down for the last two innings.

Do I think that could work? Maybe, but reinventing the wheel in this way I don't think is very probable to, and it's likely not that at all.

Another part of me says they're only doing this because they know they likely won't end up as starters, but they still want to give them the development advantages of going multiple innings. I think that's the closest answer.

Posted

I heard Falvey talk about the 3-inning strategy. He said that the other adjustment is to reduce the number of days off between appearances. I did a cursory check on John Klein and Pierson Ohl at Wichita, where they both pitched 3 innings every 4-5 days in the past month. They might even be getting more time on the mound than the usual once a week schedule.

Posted
44 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Have they tried Julien at first? Because he's not playing second if Lewis, Lee, and or Keaschell are healthy. And France isn't hitting at all. 

He's not playing second if Kody Clemens is healthy.

Posted
18 minutes ago, Steve Lein said:

It's a weird thing for me... Part of me says they're working on "maximizing" pitcher effectiveness. They hate starters going deep into games already, so if they get 4 or 5 innings out of one they may think having guys like this can extend their bullpen. 4-5 from the starter, 2-3 from these types, then the studs shut it down for the last two innings.

Do I think that could work? Maybe, but reinventing the wheel in this way I don't think is very probable to, and it's likely not that at all.

Another part of me says they're only doing this because they know they likely won't end up as starters, but they still want to give them the development advantages of going multiple innings. I think that's the closest answer.

It's going to be especially hard to do things this way because it means you need to develop your whole pitching staff internally. Other teams are not training pitchers to pitch like this, which means you can't acquire a pitcher in trade and expect them to be successful with this strategy.

Posted
52 minutes ago, HrbieFan said:

Time for Pride to be DFA'd and bring up Julien. Another few weeks of Sabato crushing at AAA and he deserves the call too. Would be an amazing addition if Sabato did figure it out and became a legit 1B/DH option 

Hey even if we sucked the rest of the year, having Sabato, Keaschall, and Emmy up in September would give the team intrigue and fan interest.

Posted
40 minutes ago, Steve Lein said:

It's a weird thing for me... Part of me says they're working on "maximizing" pitcher effectiveness. They hate starters going deep into games already, so if they get 4 or 5 innings out of one they may think having guys like this can extend their bullpen. 4-5 from the starter, 2-3 from these types, then the studs shut it down for the last two innings.

Do I think that could work? Maybe, but reinventing the wheel in this way I don't think is very probable to, and it's likely not that at all.

Another part of me says they're only doing this because they know they likely won't end up as starters, but they still want to give them the development advantages of going multiple innings. I think that's the closest answer.

I don't think they hate starters going deep into games as much as they fear their starters ability to get through innings 5-6-7.

But they do seem to be pursuing this as a developmental strategy to try and move pitchers through the system without wrecking their arms. I've heard they're not the only team digging in on this, but might be one of the ones that's more advanced on the implementation of trying this strategy in the minors where they're running starters 3 innings or so at a time, but getting them out there more frequently.

It's an interesting idea, but it's unclear if they're intending this to move into the MLB program as well, or if this is primarily developmental strategy to keep a young pitcher's elbow/shoulder from exploding before they hit AA. It could lead to an interesting pitching staff design where you have 3-4 traditional starters, 6 1-inning type relievers, and 3-4 "bulk" inning pitchers that are designed to piggy back with each other and/or one of the other starters. It also might be an area where they expect to lengthen starting pitcher candidates more in the upper minors and MLB. will it work? I don't know, but I appreciate investigating new designs to keep pitchers healthy.

Posted
13 minutes ago, Patzky said:

Hey even if we sucked the rest of the year, having Sabato, Keaschall, and Emmy up in September would give the team intrigue and fan interest.

You only get to add one guy, so two world have to go or be on the IL. 

I doubt fans care. They want wins. 

Twins Daily Contributor
Posted
31 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

I don't think they hate starters going deep into games as much as they fear their starters ability to get through innings 5-6-7.

But they do seem to be pursuing this as a developmental strategy to try and move pitchers through the system without wrecking their arms. I've heard they're not the only team digging in on this, but might be one of the ones that's more advanced on the implementation of trying this strategy in the minors where they're running starters 3 innings or so at a time, but getting them out there more frequently.

It's an interesting idea, but it's unclear if they're intending this to move into the MLB program as well, or if this is primarily developmental strategy to keep a young pitcher's elbow/shoulder from exploding before they hit AA. It could lead to an interesting pitching staff design where you have 3-4 traditional starters, 6 1-inning type relievers, and 3-4 "bulk" inning pitchers that are designed to piggy back with each other and/or one of the other starters. It also might be an area where they expect to lengthen starting pitcher candidates more in the upper minors and MLB. will it work? I don't know, but I appreciate investigating new designs to keep pitchers healthy.

This is a very good addition to what I only very loosely tried to hint at in my post. It is much more likely exactly this type of thing.

Posted

I don’t think Julien has totally “found it”, but he is currently hitting acceptably right now. I don’t know if he can help the Twins and they need tons of help right now. Sure, call him up, he’s a better option than Bride, but he’s not the key to righting the ship. The club has lost nine one-run games and their means for producing runs has been terrible. The pitching is in shambles. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Patzky said:

Hey even if we sucked the rest of the year, having Sabato, Keaschall, and Emmy up in September would give the team intrigue and fan interest.

I doubt it. Most fans don't obsess over minor leaguers. If you brought in a bunch of washed up former All-Stars they would probably draw more fans than a team full of unestablished rookies.

Posted
2 hours ago, DJL44 said:

It's going to be especially hard to do things this way because it means you need to develop your whole pitching staff internally. Other teams are not training pitchers to pitch like this, which means you can't acquire a pitcher in trade and expect them to be successful with this strategy.

Two questions.  How many established pitchers of any consequence have they signed in the past 10 years? Pablo and who else?

Why would every pitcher need to follow the same innings strategy?  If they have someone that can pitch deeper effectively, why would this strategy prevent a couple SPs from operating in a more traditional way?

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Two questions.  How many established pitchers of any consequence have they signed in the past 10 years? Pablo and who else?

Sonny Gray, Joe Ryan, Chris Paddack, Kenta Maeda, Michael Pineda, Rich Hill, Jake Odorizzi. Most of their starting pitchers have been acquired outside of the organization.

Posted
4 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Sonny Gray, Joe Ryan, Chris Paddack, Kenta Maeda, Michael Pineda, Rich Hill, Jake Odorizzi. Most of their starting pitchers have been acquired outside of the organization.

Same with Cleveland....they trade for guys all the time. That's "most"?

It really amazes me people somehow think trading for Ryan is wrong, bad, proof they don't know what they are doing.....

Posted
4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I do not understand this "everyone pitches 3 innings" strategy. What is the end goal? Do they want to have 13 middle relievers on the roster with every game a bullpen game?

I had the same feeling - is this how you develop a pitching pipeline?  It does not seem to be working.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Same with Cleveland....they trade for guys all the time. That's "most"?

It really amazes me people somehow think trading for Ryan is wrong, bad, proof they don't know what they are doing.....

Not what I'm saying.

If they decide to blow up the 5-man rotation / 8 reliever paradigm in favor of eight 3-inning pitchers (on a 4 day rotation) and 5 relievers, where are they going to get 8 3-inning pitchers? They've been acquiring their starting pitchers from outside of the organization all along. They're not going to acquire 3-inning pitchers because nobody else is developing them. They're not going to be able to trade 3-inning pitchers to other organizations for other players because those orgs will want starters and relievers instead. Free agents won't want to come to Minnesota to become a 3-inning pitcher.

If this is just a different way to develop your reliever prospects in the minors, that's fine. However, they don't seem to be developing the starting pitchers that are the key to any organization's long-term success. Their top SP prospects are pitching 3-4 innings in the minor leagues at AAA. This doesn't prepare them to be starters.

It doesn't make sense to create a "relief pitcher pipeline" when relievers are readily available at little cost and starters are the most valuable resource in baseball. It's like focusing your position player development on producing DHs and utility players while ignoring C, SS and CF.

Posted
4 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Not what I'm saying.

If they decide to blow up the 5-man rotation / 8 reliever paradigm in favor of eight 3-inning pitchers (on a 4 day rotation) and 5 relievers, where are they going to get 8 3-inning pitchers? They've been acquiring their starting pitchers from outside of the organization all along. They're not going to acquire 3-inning pitchers because nobody else is developing them. They're not going to be able to trade 3-inning pitchers to other organizations for other players because those orgs will want starters and relievers instead. Free agents won't want to come to Minnesota to become a 3-inning pitcher.

If this is just a different way to develop your reliever prospects in the minors, that's fine. However, they don't seem to be developing the starting pitchers that are the key to any organization's long-term success. Their top SP prospects are pitching 3-4 innings in the minor leagues at AAA. This doesn't prepare them to be starters.

It doesn't make sense to create a "relief pitcher pipeline" when relievers are readily available at little cost and starters are the most valuable resource in baseball. It's like focusing your position player development on producing DHs and utility players while ignoring C, SS and CF.

I also don't understand the plan, but I doubt it is about developing 8 3 inning pitchers. 

Posted
52 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

I doubt it. Most fans don't obsess over minor leaguers. If you brought in a bunch of washed up former All-Stars they would probably draw more fans than a team full of unestablished rookies.

But Twins Daily forum members would be ecstatic..

Posted
36 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Sonny Gray, Joe Ryan, Chris Paddack, Kenta Maeda, Michael Pineda, Rich Hill, Jake Odorizzi. Most of their starting pitchers have been acquired outside of the organization.

I totally spaced on Gray.  My question was qualified with "established and consequential" SPs acquired via trade.   Hill and Pineda were free agents and neither were all that consequential.  Paddack is also inconsequential. Odorizzi was a steal acquired for nothing He also could have fit into this type of role.

Ryan had not thrown a major league pitch.  Acquired by trade while still a prospect is very different than signing Pablo Lopez or Sonny Gray.  They can change or mold plans for any prospect after acquiring them.  I suspect one of the reasons for this approach is to eliminate the need to acquire relatively inconsequential pitcher like Paddack.

You also avoided the more important question which is why every pitcher would have to fit into this mold.  This discussion is pointless unless we can come up with reasons why every pitcher has to fit this mold if we have some pitchers in this mold.

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