Could Edouard Julien Be the Next Surprise Demotion for Minnesota Twins?

[Patzky]

52 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Royce Lewis is hitting .174/.167/.217 in AAA in 24 PA while sitting in the hotel watching every game get rained out. Not sure how that benefits his conditioning or shows he's ready.

I would hope they don't just stick him in batting third and playing third all week. That's doomed to fail. I give Rocco credit (mostly) for concocting decent lineups lately. I like Larnach and Bader 7 and 8. I like more Vasquez catching and Jeffers DHing. I like sliding Correa down a spot or two. And Buxton and or Castro leading off is better than Julien playing statue to begin the game (the first Cleveland game being the exception.)

Put Lee at 2nd when Royce is at third, or DH Royce on days Jeffers catches and put Willi or Clemens at 2nd, Lee at third.

[Riverbrian]

I'm OK... with Julien getting sent down. His fate was sealed when he couldn't come up with a key grounder and that over slide of 2B on his stolen base attempt on Friday.

I still believe in Juliens ability to hit the ball... however he isn't at the moment with a .198 avg and .607 OPS that just isn't going to overcome everything else that he has to overcome. 

 

 

[HerbieFan]

The fact that any of Julien, Bride, Clemens will still be on the team speaks volumes

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Keirsey has had the fewest opportunities. The one time he had regular ABs, he showed promise & the team did well.  But the other times, they were sparse. He doesn't deserve to be sent down but rookies need plenty of playing time; he's not getting it from Baldelli. He needs to go down to AAA to remove the splinters from his backside. 

Do you mean when he was a regular in AAA? Keirsey has shown nothing at all in the majors. He's done nothing to earn more playing time. He's had 43 plate appearances and barreled up one pitch.

[NYCTK]

29 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Do you mean when he was a regular in AAA? Keirsey has shown nothing at all in the majors. He's done nothing to earn more playing time. He's had 43 plate appearances and barreled up one pitch.

Sure, he can't hit for average, power, make contact, drop a bunt, or draw a walk. But aside from that, he's got some promise. 

He's got some aura but don't think that counts towards a player's WAR. 

[CRF]

Surprise?

[Jocko87]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

Do you mean when he was a regular in AAA? Keirsey has shown nothing at all in the majors. He's done nothing to earn more playing time. He's had 43 plate appearances and barreled up one pitch.

In fairness, a barrel is a pretty terrible measuring stick. That bomb Abreu hit off Jax the other day-not a barrel. Obviously.

Kiersey still has a role and I think it's related to Larnach hitting against lefties being a failed experiment so far. He should still get the occasional early game at bat but going forward the path is pretty obvious to me. Bride pinch hits, Kiersey runs and plays defense.

[twinstalker]

It would only be a surprise because the Twins generally aren't that smart.

Face it, both Gasper and Clemens look just as good, Julien can't field (ironic that the one stretch of games he showed himself at his worst is when people here and with the Twins lauded his fielding a bit).

The point is, we're discussing whether Julien should get sent down instead of Gasper and Clemens (dfa), and that tells us all we really need to know.

[Mike Sixel]

It's hard to believe the fall from his rookie year. 

[RpR]

3 hours ago, HerbieFan said:

The fact that any of Julien, Bride, Clemens will still be on the team speaks volumes

But so many here say all they need is more chances on the field, so, they are getting there chances even with an iron glove.

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

In fairness, a barrel is a pretty terrible measuring stick. That bomb Abreu hit off Jax the other day-not a barrel. Obviously.

Kiersey still has a role and I think it's related to Larnach hitting against lefties being a failed experiment so far. He should still get the occasional early game at bat but going forward the path is pretty obvious to me. Bride pinch hits, Kiersey runs and plays defense.

Man, I didn't even notice that somehow Larnach has gotten worse against LHP. Turns out the 'just give him a chance' strategy after already giving him many chances didn't really pan out. Wallner on the other hand should still be given a chance, but I think we can all definitively say at this point that Larnach cannot, and should not, hit against lefties. 

Said it elsewhere, but unfortunately he's really becoming a strong non-tender candidate in the offseason. A bat-only player that has to be platooned and only carrying a 750 OPS against righties, due about $4 million next year in arbitration? 

[NYCTK]

10 minutes ago, RpR said:

But so many here say all they need is more chances on the field, so, they are getting there chances even with an iron glove.

If the team just make sure they know their role surely they can get comfortable and become stellar...

[stringer bell]

Catchers: Running wild has much more to do with the pitchers than the catchers. Alcalá in particular gave the catchers absolutely no chance to throw out runners and Brock Stewart doesn't have a slide step and is slow to the plate. The best way to stop the running game is not allow fast guys to get on base, The second best is to be far enough ahead that they don't even try.

Julien: He had major league success but that now is two years ago and what he has done in the last two years is just not enough to justify his iffy at best defense. Clemens and probably Bride are placeholders, but they are better defenders and more versatile and not prospects. 

[Doctor Gast]

4 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Do you mean when he was a regular in AAA? Keirsey has shown nothing at all in the majors. He's done nothing to earn more playing time. He's had 43 plate appearances and barreled up one pitch.

Keirsey 43 PAs spread out in almost 3 months, that is not an opportunity. Margot probably got more than that in his 1st 2 weeks with MN. Keirsey should have had the same opportunity as Margot. Margot is a veteran, Keirsey is a rookie & most rookies need regular ABs to adapt to MLB. I'm not saying that Keirsey will be a star, but he can contribute with his glove, baserunning & eventually his bat if given a fair chance. That should be the goal of the Twins: to maximize the development of every Twin. To some players, they have failed miserably.

[Vanimal46]

16 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

Keirsey 43 PAs spread out in almost 3 months, that is not an opportunity. Margot probably got more than that in his 1st 2 weeks with MN. Keirsey should have had the same opportunity as Margot. Margot is a veteran, Keirsey is a rookie & most rookies need regular ABs to adapt to MLB. I'm not saying that Keirsey will be a star, but he can contribute with his glove, baserunning & eventually his bat if given a fair chance. That should be the goal of the Twins: to maximize the development of every Twin. To some players, they have failed miserably.

About 10 years ago on this website there was a poster that commented all the time about the Twins ruining Adam Brett Walker III and never giving him a chance. Turns out, that poster was Adam Brett Walker’s dad.

So I’ve got to ask… Are you DeShaun Keirsey Sr? 

[Doctor Gast]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

About 10 years ago on this website there was a poster that commented all the time about the Twins ruining Adam Brett Walker III and never giving him a chance. Turns out, that poster was Adam Brett Walker’s dad.

So I’ve got to ask… Are you DeShaun Keirsey Sr? 

No, just a serious Twins fan that believes that Twins' main hope is to develop their own players like CLE, instead of trying to copy NYY. I know it's very difficult for MiLBers to make that adjustment to MLB. Keirsey can contribute with his defense & baserunning now. IMO, Keirsey has the character to make that adjustment hitting if given a fair chance with regular ABs. Rookies need playing time, the last 3 months, Keirsey has been sitting around & not playing. If they won't play Keirsey, he should be sent down, solely to get playing time.

[Vanimal46]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

No, just a serious Twins fan that believes that Twins' main hope is to develop their own players like CLE, instead of trying to copy NYY. I know it's very difficult for MiLBers to make that adjustment to MLB. Keirsey can contribute with his defense & baserunning now. IMO, Keirsey has the character to make that adjustment hitting if given a fair chance with regular ABs. Rookies need playing time, the last 3 months, Keirsey has been sitting around & not playing. If they won't play Keirsey, he should be sent down, solely to get playing time.

He’s turning 28 next week. This is probably the best we’re gonna get out of him at the MLB level. 

[RpR]

10 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

No, just a serious Twins fan that believes that Twins' main hope is to develop their own players like CLE, instead of trying to copy NYY. I know it's very difficult for MiLBers to make that adjustment to MLB. Keirsey can contribute with his defense & baserunning now. IMO, Keirsey has the character to make that adjustment hitting if given a fair chance with regular ABs. Rookies need playing time, the last 3 months, Keirsey has been sitting around & not playing. If they won't play Keirsey, he should be sent down, solely to get playing time.

That mantra has been proven to be wishful thinking and nothing more; if that were true, gents who have been let go , after a lot of game, would have fixed all their problems and still be a Twins player.

[Doctor Gast]

10 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

He’s turning 28 next week. This is probably the best we’re gonna get out of him at the MLB level. 

That's what analysts say. Each person is different & needs to be evaluated differently, & those should be given a fair chance & not be lumped all together & say he was 27 last year so he'll never amount to anything because that's what analytics spit out.

[Doctor Gast]

15 minutes ago, RpR said:

That mantra has been proven to be wishful thinking and nothing more; if that were true, gents who have been let go , after a lot of game, would have fixed all their problems and still be a Twins player.

A lot of games sitting on the bench never made a rookie into a MLBer, if you think that you are wrong. It takes a lot of regular ABs, period.

[jorgenswest]

I would send Julien down. He is so limited on how he can help the team from the bench. He wouldn’t be useful as a defensive sub or pinch runner. A pinch hitter often comes up where a ball in play is needed. That isn’t his skill with the bat. I think Gasper is similar but less upside with the bat. I guess he helps as a third catcher but so does Bride.

Keirsey is a much better fit on the bench. He also has never showed in the minors a likelihood of being an average major league bat. His best wRC+ seasons in the minors of 119 and 116 are suggestive of a mediocre major league hitter and AAAA player that helps a roster with the other parts of their game.

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

Keirsey 43 PAs spread out in almost 3 months, that is not an opportunity. Margot probably got more than that in his 1st 2 weeks with MN. Keirsey should have had the same opportunity as Margot. Margot is a veteran, Keirsey is a rookie & most rookies need regular ABs to adapt to MLB. I'm not saying that Keirsey will be a star, but he can contribute with his glove, baserunning & eventually his bat if given a fair chance. That should be the goal of the Twins: to maximize the development of every Twin. To some players, they have failed miserably.

The roster is constructed differently this year and there's no regular slot for Keirsey to get at-bats. He's on the team because he has very good speed and would appear to be at least an above-average outfielder. He's 28 years old in a few days and very few 28-year old rookies become mainstays. Maybe he's an exception, but I'm very skeptical.

I've had the chance to watch more minor league baseball in the last few years and it is striking to me how different it is from the major league product. Balls aren't fielded that routinely get turned to outs even for the worst defensive teams in MLB. Mistake pitches seem common and few pitchers have the command to exploit weak spots that we see routinely with the major leaguers.  I have close to zero faith that good numbers in AAA will translate to the majors. Keirsey put up very good numbers last year, but hasn't hit at all as a major leaguer Every year there are examples of this and maybe Mickey Gasper is another example.

Minor league field staff see guys and recommend who should be promoted. If they don't do a good job of evaluating talent, they don't keep their jobs. Despite pretty average numbers the Twins were quick to promote Keaschall, but not Keirsey or Yunior Severino, who put up good numbers in the previous two seasons. I imagine the Triple A field staff saw red flags for the latter two, but not for Keaschall. 

Underdogs like Keirsey, Eeles and McCusker have to beat the door down harder and produce more than guys with pedigrees and they probably get fewer chances. 

[RpR]

1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

A lot of games sitting on the bench never made a rookie into a MLBer, if you think that you are wrong. It takes a lot of regular ABs, period.

That is what AAA is for.

[Vanimal46]

48 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

He's 28 years old in a few days and very few 28-year old rookies become mainstays. Maybe he's an exception, but I'm very skeptical.

Correct. For every 1 Brent Rooker that finally clicks at age 28, there are 50 other Andrew Stevensons that flame out as AAAA players. Keirsey is likely to be in the group of 50 than the outlier.