Game Thread: Twins (Maeda) @ Tigers (Olson), 8/10/23 @ 12:10 CT

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I think it's fair to question whether Rocco gets the most out of his team. 

I certainly believe Francona would have this team in a better spot.

 

Several things can be true at once. The roster lacks talent, the manager seems to lack the ability to get the most out of the players, and the hitting coach(es) must have compromising pictures of upper management since they’ve yet to be shown the door

[wsnydes]

3 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

I think it's fair to question whether Rocco gets the most out of his team. 

I certainly believe Francona would have this team in a better spot.

 

Francona is one of those rare managers that actually makes a difference though.  That's why he's revered.  There aren't many of those types of managers.

The majority are just like Rocco, not really harmful, not really helpful.  

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, BiggestRoccoFan said:

He has a lot to do with it. I have been saying this all year long. He does not have these guys ready to play on a day in and day out basis. They never take BP or infield. Go find me another manager in this league that pinch hits for guys in the 2nd inning. He has about as much fire and personality as that teacher in Ferris Buellers Day Off.

This means a lot, coming from the BiggestRoccoFan 😂

[Aggies7]

Might as well burn duran for no reason whatsoever 

[wsnydes]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

Might as well burn duran for no reason whatsoever 

That was my first thought too.

When was the last time he worked?

[mrtwinsfan]

6 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

So Rocco is the reason they are getting shut out?  That's some length gone to blame the manager for the hitters not getting it done today. 

So Rocco is the reason they are getting shut out?   No  i give him props for at least trying a hit-run,  its the visual that he Projects  its on the Hitters to hit,  Frustrating !!!!!!!

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, wsnydes said:

That was my first thought too.

When was the last time he worked?

Been a while, but down 3 when you’ve had 2 hits all game…seems pointless. Nearing 20 pitches 

[USAFChief]

6 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

Francona is one of those rare managers that actually makes a difference though.  That's why he's revered.  There aren't many of those types of managers.

The majority are just like Rocco, not really harmful, not really helpful.  

I realize that's a commonly held opinion.

I don't know that I agree.

By definition, half of MLB managers are above average, half below. It's certainly possible the range of difference isn't large, but it's alo possible it's quite large.

We are talking about 162 games of decisions on playing time, pitching moves. Practice time and procedures. Acceptable/non acceptable behaviors. Leadership.

It seems to me a daily 6 month endeavor would lend itself to managment having a large impact, rather than small.

I could be wrong. But that's my take.

In any case, even if you believe Francona is a unicorn, shouldn't we be looking for the next one? Or do we just accept he's a run of the mill, average guy and not try for better? 

 

[Danchat]

1 minute ago, wsnydes said:

That was my first thought too.

When was the last time he worked?

The bullpen chart said he hadn't pitched the past 5 days, possibly more. I don't think it's a horrible move.

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, Danchat said:

The bullpen chart said he hadn't pitched the past 5 days, possibly more. I don't think it's a horrible move.

Made more sense to use him last night in that situation. 18 pitches, at least he threw strikes 

[RickOShea]

Do we cross Duran off for being available in Friday nights game?  No biggie, it's only Philadelphia.

[mrtwinsfan]

4 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Might as well burn duran for no reason whatsoever 

its worse even, if he wanted to make sure he got work in, do it at 1-0  not 3-0,  shouldnt matter what inning , even more so in a 1-0 game

[USAFChief]

3 minutes ago, Danchat said:

The bullpen chart said he hadn't pitched the past 5 days, possibly more. I don't think it's a horrible move.

I'd say it's moronic.

[mrtwinsfan]

Just now, USAFChief said:

I'd say it's moronic.

And it was !!!!!

[mrtwinsfan]

Max  keep doing that in Philly , and you will be rewarded

[wsnydes]

1 minute ago, USAFChief said:

I realize that's a commonly held opinion.

I don't know that I agree.

By definition, half of MLB managers are above average, half below. It's certainly possible the range of difference isn't large, but it's alo possible it's quite large.

We are talking about 162 games of decisions on playing time, pitching moves. Practice time and procedures. Acceptable/non acceptable behaviors. Leadership.

It seems to me a daily 6 month endeavor would lend itself to managment having a large impact, rather than small.

I could be wrong. But that's my take.

I don't know that we're all that different in thought process.  In my mind, the largest portion of managers is within say plus or minus 20% of that 50/50 middle.  The worst managers are in the bottom 30%, the top managers in the top 30%.  That middle 40% largely don't provide a meaningful impact as the pros/cons essentially even themselves out.  Francona is one that does make a meaningful impact, which is what makes him special.  There are probably 25+ teams that would see a positive impact from having him on their bench.  

[wsnydes]

7 minutes ago, Danchat said:

The bullpen chart said he hadn't pitched the past 5 days, possibly more. I don't think it's a horrible move.

Yeah, that's where I was going with that.  I would agree with you there.

[glunn]

Only 2 hits against the Tigers.  I think that is pathetic.

[CRF]

Wow! Lose 3 of 4 again to the Kittys, with two shutouts this time. Embarrassing. 

[USAFChief]

The last 14 Twins went down in order.

Snoozefest.

[USAFChief]

3 minutes ago, wsnydes said:

I don't know that we're all that different in thought process.  In my mind, the largest portion of managers is within say plus or minus 20% of that 50/50 middle.  The worst managers are in the bottom 30%, the top managers in the top 30%.  That middle 40% largely don't provide a meaningful impact as the pros/cons essentially even themselves out.  Francona is one that does make a meaningful impact, which is what makes him special.  There are probably 25+ teams that would see a positive impact from having him on their bench.  

So...keep Rocco? Just live with mediocrity?

[SwainZag]

Just now, wsnydes said:

Yeah, that's where I was going with that.  I would agree with you there.

Plus Duran hasn't been good lately.  Runs in 3 of his last 4 games.   Low leverage spot to gain some confidence back.  18 pitches might make him unavailable 1 day this weekend.

[Vanimal46]

I thought getting swept by KC was bad. This is worse. 

[MABB1959]

Shouldn't our "washed up" veterans at least know how to work a count?

[wsnydes]

Just now, USAFChief said:

So...keep Rocco? Just live with mediocrity?

Not at all what I'm saying.  I'm pretty indifferent to Rocco.  I just don't think that's going to be an impact move without also improving the roster.

[wavedog]

Unfortunately we have soon too many games like this this season.   Frustrating that we did not pick up a hitter and bullpen piece at the trade deadline.     We may still win the central because all the other teams are not good.    

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, USAFChief said:

The last 14 Twins went down in order.

Snoozefest.

Im gonna have to check, but I don’t think that qualifies as “battling their tails off”

[wsnydes]

Pretty pitiful offensive performance in this series.  

[USAFChief]

Just now, wsnydes said:

Not at all what I'm saying.  I'm pretty indifferent to Rocco.  I just don't think that's going to be an impact move without also improving the roster.

Fair enough.

 

[tony&rodney]

Every team in MLB has good players. The Twins are keeping above .500 for now. Those who picked 82-87 wins are looking good.

On to Philadelphia, where they will be welcomed by big hitters in a small park. The Twins have had excellent starting pitching this year. Without it they might be hanging out with the Royals. Hopefully the starting pitchers hold down the Phillies.