The coming infield jam-up...

[Possumlad]

Figured this may be worth a fruitful discussion - something I was thinking about last night watching Julien mash his way through another big night. 

When Polanco & Royce return, how do we manage the left side of the infield? 

We'll have four worthy every-day starters across the left side - Royce, Correa, Julien, and Polanco. 

AND perhaps by the end of this year, a fifth in Brooks Lee.

How would you manage this, both for the rest of this year & beyond? 

I tend to prefer less screwing around to more... I like to see "everyday regulars" who know their position, know their position in the line-up, and are relatively locked in for ~80% of games.

Likely not all that difficult until Lee pushes his way to the majors, but a couple things I'd like to see: 

Royce @ full-time 3rd base

Correa @ full-time SS (He's signed through 2028 - no reason to consider anything but full-time @ SS for the time being).

Julien & Polanco rotating @ 2nd, with the other generally batting DH when not on the field. 

Polanco is signed through 2024, with a team option in 2025.

Do we consider trading him at the deadline? Hard to stomach given the state of the offense, but I could make a case for it.

Things get more difficult when Lee makes it to the majors. Royce needs to be locked in to 3B, but most projections have Lee's defense playing better at 3B than short. 

Assuming neither Royce nor Correa is going anywhere - where does Lee go?

Obviously these questions answer themselves is one is injured for a stretch - but wondering what everyone thinks for periods when they're all healthy? 

[Squirrel]

Who is due back when? I think Polanco comes back first, yes? Then I'd put him at 3rd, Wallner goes down. (Whether or not anyone wants that to happen is beside the point ... that is the likely move, since he came up when Miranda was put on the IL). Hopefully there are some trades in the mean time, before the others.

When Royce comes back, Royce is at 3rd and Polanco moves back to 2nd. Not sure what the corresponding move will be, but perhaps someone is traded or released (Solano?) But in the off-season, I work on getting Royce to the OF, leaving 3B for Lee.

But I don't think we will see Lee this year, unless there are a ton of injuries. He isn't even in AAA yet. But I would move him up, just in case.

What happens to Julien when Polanco and Royce are back up? There will be some rotating in and out and around. And it will depend on the 'elephant in the room' question that I won't get into here because it's been gotten into in every thread.

My question is what happens to Miranda? And that all depends on him, but he may end up being shut down for the rest of the year. After that? <shrug>

We do have kind of an on-going thread that much of this gets discussed from time to time, if you are interested to read some of the comments there. It can be nice to start fresh, though, so thanks for starting this.

[Possumlad]

11 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Who is due back when? I think Polanco comes back first, yes? Then I'd put him at 3rd, Wallner goes down. (Whether or not anyone wants that to happen is beside the point ... that is the likely move, since he came up when Miranda was put on the IL). Hopefully there are some trades in the mean time, before the others.

When Royce comes back, Royce is at 3rd and Polanco moves back to 2nd. Not sure what the corresponding move will be, but perhaps someone is traded or released (Solano?) But in the off-season, I work on getting Royce to the OF, leaving 3B for Lee.

But I don't think we will see Lee this year, unless there are a ton of injuries. He isn't even in AAA yet. But I would move him up, just in case.

What happens to Julien when Polanco and Royce are back up? There will be some rotating in and out and around. And it will depend on the 'elephant in the room' question that I won't get into here because it's been gotten into in every thread.

My question is what happens to Miranda? And that all depends on him, but he may end up being shut down for the rest of the year. After that? <shrug>

We do have kind of an on-going thread that much of this gets discussed from time to time, if you are interested to read some of the comments there. It can be nice to start fresh, though, so thanks for starting this.

Good thoughts. My thought (maybe just hope?) is that Miranda's likely out of the everyday plans for now unless something changes drastically. My other thought is you have to find a place play Julien every day - he looks to me like a solid .800 OPS regular, something this team is sorely lacking. You gotta keep playing him at least until / if he proves otherwise. Doesn't seem like a mirage to me - his approach is sound, great plate discipline, and no obvious holes in his swing to exploit (unlike Miranda). 

[Mike Sixel]

Polanco to third when he comes back. If he shows he's healthy, trade him at the deadline......

[FlyingFinn]

31 minutes ago, Possumlad said:

We'll have four worthy every-day starters across the left side - Royce, Correa, Julien, and Polanco. 

AND perhaps by the end of this year, a fifth in Brooks Lee.

Sometimes we just think we have a logjam and then suddenly we end up with no logs. We traded Steer as Miranda was having a great rookie year plus Lewis was coming back. Suddenly Miranda can't hit for power (shoulder?) and Lewis is on the IL and Steer is tearing up the league. 

For this year, I want Julien in the lineup 6 days out of 7, even against LH's (don't teach our young guys that they can only hit RH's). 2B or DH are the only two spots right now that Julien can play. He would need some work at 1B to play there and will not be at 3B or LF. 

For 2024, I just don't see Polanco on the Twins. Even if we move Lewis to CF, we still have Lee (or a Miranda comeback) at 3B, Correa at SS, Julien/Lee/Martin at 2B, with Castro and Farmer backing up everything (or playing until Lee is ready). All of this is based upon a certain someone still playing every day at DH.

[Possumlad]

11 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

Sometimes we just think we have a logjam and then suddenly we end up with no logs. We traded Steer as Miranda was having a great rookie year plus Lewis was coming back. Suddenly Miranda can't hit for power (shoulder?) and Lewis is on the IL and Steer is tearing up the league. 

For this year, I want Julien in the lineup 6 days out of 7, even against LH's (don't teach our young guys that they can only hit RH's). 2B or DH are the only two spots right now that Julien can play. He would need some work at 1B to play there and will not be at 3B or LF. 

For 2024, I just don't see Polanco on the Twins. Even if we move Lewis to CF, we still have Lee (or a Miranda comeback) at 3B, Correa at SS, Julien/Lee/Martin at 2B, with Castro and Farmer backing up everything (or playing until Lee is ready). All of this is based upon a certain someone still playing every day at DH.

Great thoughts. 

If I remember correctly, Lewis & his agent have made it very clear that they don't want him in the OF. Assuming I'm remembering that correctly, I'd respect that preference. I don't see a reason to move him off 3B. 

[FlyingFinn]

2 minutes ago, Possumlad said:

If I remember correctly, Lewis & his agent have made it very clear that they don't want him in the OF. Assuming I'm remembering that correctly, I'd respect that preference. I don't see a reason to move him off 3B. 

If every player and agent tells the Twins where they should play, this is now the NBA. What's next, demanding they bat 1st in the batting lineup? I'm only fine with the agent demand for 2023 and not beyond. That's my rant.

With Buxton at DH, Lewis, Correa, Lee and Kirilloff in the infield, what do you with Julien? Someone good has to play CF. Lewis and Buxton qualify. Martin playing like he did in the Arizona Fall League would as well. Stevenson and Keirsey are long shots. The Twins are so much better with either Lewis or Buxton in CF.

[Possumlad]

7 minutes ago, Bigfork Twins Guy said:

None of this takes into account that we have Austin Martin and Gordon coming in at some point.  Now, maybe they move Martin to the OF and prepare him for CF next year.  I see Gordon squeezed out of the infield at this point.

I don't believe Austin Martin or Gordon will ever be meaningful ongoing parts of the roster - at best, they fill the role of Gordon last year and Castro this year. Spot utility guys when the line-up looks the way it should.

[Possumlad]

17 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

If every player and agent tells the Twins where they should play, this is now the NBA. What's next, demanding they bat 1st in the batting lineup? I'm only fine with the agent demand for 2023 and not beyond. That's my rant.

With Buxton at DH, Lewis, Correa, Lee and Kirilloff in the infield, what do you with Julien? Someone good has to play CF. Lewis and Buxton qualify. Martin playing like he did in the Arizona Fall League would as well. Stevenson and Keirsey are long shots. The Twins are so much better with either Lewis or Buxton in CF.

Eh, I don't mind it in Lewis' case - he's now had two significant knee injuries, the most recent playing OF. And he's a good third baseman. In general, sure... you'd hope players were wiling to do whatever's asked of them. But it's not a common problem, and Lewis is a unique case. I understand the desire not to be jerked around - I wouldn't want it either as a number 1.01 pick & top prospect.

[ashbury]

56 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Polanco to third when he comes back. If he shows he's healthy, trade him at the deadline......

You don't have to have more arm to play 3B than SS, but you don't really want to have less either.  Unlike some players' moves off of SS, Polanco's mark against him was the arm.  Even at 2B he sometimes makes throws that look baffling and seem like he's straining. 

Unfortunately I don't envision Julien's game being impressive at 3B either.  To say the least.

I don't see how Julien and Polanco coexist on a roster, except on a team that can commit to DH for one, and I think Polanco's defense is better than Julien's and it's a shame to relegate a young'un to DH.  Probably they can work with Julien to raise his defense from "adequate" to "below average" at 2B.

So, concur with trading Polanco if we can.  Having him play 2B during rehab in the minors to demonstrate that he's back will have to suffice.

And I hate to trade Jorge.  He's one of my favorites.  Those laser-beam eyes when he's at bat.....

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, ashbury said:

You don't have to have more arm to play 3B than SS, but you don't really want to have less either.  Unlike some players' moves off of SS, Polanco's mark against him was the arm.  Even at 2B he sometimes makes throws that look baffling and seem like he's straining. 

Unfortunately I don't envision Julien's game being impressive at 3B either.  To say the least.

I don't see how Julien and Polanco coexist on a roster, except on a team that can commit to DH for one, and I think Polanco's defense is better than Julien's and it's a shame to relegate a young'un to DH.

So, concur with trading Polanco if we can.  Having him play 2B during rehab in the minors to demonstrate that he's back will have to suffice.

And I hate to trade Jorge.  He's one of my favorites.  Those laser-beam eyes when he's at bat.....

Right. No one WANTS to trade Polanco....but Julien has to be on the roster and playing. 

Also, if healthy, he's one of the best trade targets available. I have my doubts he can play 3B, but I'd give it a shot I think, if they keep him. 

[ashbury]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Right. No one WANTS to trade Polanco....but Julien has to be on the roster and playing. 

Also, if healthy, he's one of the best trade targets available. I have my doubts he can play 3B, but I'd give it a shot I think, if they keep him. 

Then do not trade AK for Goldschmidt.   Bad enough we need him to gather in the wide throws from Julien at 2B, now we'll be expecting someone to deal with occasional three-hoppers from 3B.

[RpR]

32 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

 Martin playing like he did in the Arizona Fall League would as well. Stevenson and Keirsey are long shots. The Twins are so much better with either Lewis or Buxton in CF.

Every rookie playing like they do in the minors is the wish of all baseball managers but it simply does not work that way so bemusing this problem of too many good players is not reality.

I would love to see Stevenson in the Bigs, just to see if he can keep it up; why Wallner is here and not Stevenson is odd.

[RpR]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Then do not trade AK for Goldschmidt.   Bad enough we need him to gather in the wide throws from Julien at 2B, now you're expecting someone to deal with some three-hoppers from 3B.

He could relay to the pitcher and then to first.😁

[ashbury]

1 minute ago, RpR said:

He could relay to the pitcher and then to first.😁

Good plan. The pitcher needs to be ready for the short-hop, though.

[Jocko87]

Lee won't be in this mix, no reason to make a 40 man move when you already have this log jam.  Much more clarity will come from the deadline. 

This conversation is one that unfortunately usually takes care of itself.  With the deadline and Sept 1st as important dates they will most likely be able to use a combination of rehabs and other injuries to sort it out.  Lewis might still be a month away, Wallner will go back down for Polo and Rocco will find places for Julien to play. 

We shouldn't be conflating the rest of this season plans with next year plans though,  Two different conversations. 

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Polanco to third when he comes back. If he shows he's healthy, trade him at the deadline......

All I’ve read is that Polanco will have a “substantial rehab” which, to me, indicates most if not all of the 20 day maximum. That will take us close to or beyond the trade deadline. I really doubt the Twins will attempt to show-horn him into third base, especially when it might be for only 10 days until Lewis is back. 

The most likely move is to IL Buxton when Polanco is ready and have Julien DH five days a week. Injuries likely will take care of the “logjam”. 

[PseudoSABR]

The solution is Buxton playing in the field.

[Mike Sixel]

17 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

All I’ve read is that Polanco will have a “substantial rehab” which, to me, indicates most if not all of the 20 day maximum. That will take us close to or beyond the trade deadline. I really doubt the Twins will attempt to show-horn him into third base, especially when it might be for only 10 days until Lewis is back. 

The most likely move is to IL Buxton when Polanco is ready and have Julien DH five days a week. Injuries likely will take care of the “logjam”. 

I mean, I'd IL Buxton....but they haven't yet, so I don't see them doing it.

I agree, they won't put Polanco at third......

I trade him. Tampa and Toronto need 2B. Go get a 45+ value guy, give or take. The younger the better. Likely a few other contenders could use Polanco....

[FlyingFinn]

41 minutes ago, RpR said:

Every rookie playing like they do in the minors is the wish of all baseball managers but it simply does not work that way so bemusing this problem of too many good players is not reality.

You can say the exact same thing about veterans playing like they did last year. The Twins are a good example - if our stars and big money players hit like they have in the past, we would have a big lead in the Central.

And Julien is playing exactly like he did in the minors, both hitting and fielding (SSS so far).

[RpR]

21 minutes ago, FlyingFinn said:

You can say the exact same thing about veterans playing like they did last year. The Twins are a good example - if our stars and big money players hit like they have in the past, we would have a big lead in the Central.

And Julien is playing exactly like he did in the minors, both hitting and fielding (SSS so far).

Majority of rookies at best, go flat in the Bigs; veterans are a known quantity who do eventually decline, that is not hope based on wishful thinking but sad reality.

For every 20 year player like Paul Molitor there are dozens of players like Randy Bush who put in 8-9 years and then hang it up.

[Linus]

I’ve been following the Twins for 50+ years. The next true logjam of good players will be the first. 

[Mike Sixel]

28 minutes ago, Linus said:

I’ve been following the Twins for 50+ years. The next true logjam of good players will be the first. 

Julien sat in AAA this year while Polanco played.....

[SpicyGarvSauce]

From rags to riches, right?

LOL

[MMMordabito]

7 hours ago, ashbury said:

And I hate to trade Jorge.  He's one of my favorites.  Those laser-beam eyes when he's at bat.....

[Trov]

Generally these things work themselves out.  Assuming all healthy and playing well, Lewis will stay at 3rd and Correa at SS, really Polanco and Julien are the only 2 fighting for playing time.  Rotating them and having the other DH from time to time is not a bad idea, but looking to see if Julien can play 1B some games, and moving AK to OF is possible too. 

[Puckett34]

Likely Wallner down when Polanco is ready. Once Royce is ready, I'd put Polanco back at 2nd, Lewis to 3rd, Juilen to DH and Buxton to the IL.  I guess unless Buxton is deemed fit to play the outfield, I dunno.

[Nine of twelve]

21 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

If every player and agent tells the Twins where they should play, this is now the NBA.

This is not a demand by Lewis or his agent. It's just an expression of preference. The team still decides who plays where no matter what they say, and in Lewis' case I don't foresee him squawking about where he plays. But I agree with others that the infield is where Lewis is best suited, for the benefit of both him and the team.

[Schmoeman5]

There is no coming infield logjam. It's real simple. Polanco 2nd Lewis 3rd Julien DH. Buxton with his continued futility is the issue. A buck sixty average over 3 months!!!  I understand customer loyalty but you have to attach a buyer beware tag. The only other option is to DFA Gallo. Move Kiriloff to LF. Try Julien at 1st. Solano and Farmer continue in their roles

 

[Schmoeman5]

20 hours ago, RpR said:

Every rookie playing like they do in the minors is the wish of all baseball managers but it simply does not work that way so bemusing this problem of too many good players is not reality.

I would love to see Stevenson in the Bigs, just to see if he can keep it up; why Wallner is here and not Stevenson is odd.

Yeah. Stevenson is the savior the Twins have and just don't realize  because they're so incompetent. He's a guaranteed HOF player languishing in AAA.