Tigers 8, Twins 4 : Twins Lick Their Wounds After a Tiger Attack

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

6 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

I don't think it's obvious at all. Gray is feisty, a competitor, and never wants to come out of a game, especially if he's been struggling a bit. Whether he has a personal issue with Rocco or Maki or the front office or whomever is total guesswork right now, and might always be.

he's not taking personal shots at anyone, we're not seeing blind quotes or any of the old "sources behind the scenes say" stuff to suggest that there's a real conflict or a problem there. I think Gray is just a little different cat than some: he's direct, pretty honest, and very very competitive. but he also seems like a good teammate who doesn't go after guys in the press (whether it's management or players) just because he's mad.

Sure, call it tension, competitiveness, whatever. Doesn’t really matter in the long run.

[Craig Arko]

4 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Sure, call it tension, competitiveness, whatever. Doesn’t really matter in the long run.

“In the long run we are all dead.” J.M. Keynes.

[Dave Borton]

11 hours ago, VivaBomboRivera! said:

Will the real version of the 2023 Minnesota Twins please stand up?

79-83 pending.
Tito will tighten up the Cleveland bunch, SPs will heal, and the meek offensive weapons will be sufficient to Guard (Ian) the division title. The Lake Erie boys then will get tossed in the 1st playoff round like 3-day old bait.

[Dave Borton]

4 hours ago, Eris said:

 It is just a joy to watch Lewis play. Trying to remember a Twins player who was that athletic. Maybe Buxton when he was allowed to roam CF. 

Lewis is fielding .905 at 3B this year. Hope it is just rook nerves driving the small sample.

[Dave Borton]

8 hours ago, RickOShea said:

That's the beauty of it.  You can be right one day and wrong the next in your assessments.  Let's tolerate the assessments.  Let them be a reflection of one's passion for the game.

Very well stated. Needed more than a "like."

[MABB1959]

Throw away your stupid tablet and manage the games.  I would have left the roster the way it was on the mini hot streak even if that meant leaving Buxton on the bench.  

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

17 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

“In the long run we are all dead.” J.M. Keynes.

“Keynes is dead.”

- god

[wabene]

2 hours ago, Craig Arko said:

Hmmm, eaten by bears in the game thread and by tigers here. Clearly, we require lions.

Oh, myyyyyy.

I will go on record stating I would rather go to sleep quietly while freezing to death than being eaten alive, just sayin.

[JD-TWINS]

13 hours ago, Althebum82 said:

While technically not mop-up duty when he came into the game, Jorge Lopez turned it into a mop-up appearance before he left the field.  After teasing us with a great start to the season, he has now not just supplanted Pagan as a bullpen liability, he has actually exceeded Pagan's ineptitude.

Depends who pitches last, you never know - I’ve been down on both of these guys since September 1 last year. I know I’m not alone. …….you are right, Pagan’s issues are focus & command based, no intestinal fortitude. Lopez has no guts either & less focus. He gets hammered ahead in counts with 2 strikes - then he walks a guy on 7 pitches………. one inning perfect, next inning he looks like a 9th grader. I get guys aren’t perfect but he’s almost unstable. What’s up with the big grins after he gives up multiple doubles?? Completely insecure & low confidence & trying to mask with laughter?

[jmlease1]

1 hour ago, MABB1959 said:

Throw away your stupid tablet and manage the games.  I would have left the roster the way it was on the mini hot streak even if that meant leaving Buxton on the bench.  

Pick one argument, eh? First you want him to manage the team, then you want him to not touch the lineup (I assume you meant lineup rather than roster?).

[MABB1959]

4 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

Pick one argument, eh? First you want him to manage the team, then you want him to not touch the lineup (I assume you meant lineup rather than roster?).

Line-up for now.  I am not sure what else you could mean.  Overall managing would that be putting Buxton in CF or calling up Wallner and DFA Kepler?  I would never change a line-up that is hot.  Playing Buxton right now does not make the line-up better.

[Squirrel]

7 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

Line-up for now.  I am not sure what else you could mean.  Overall managing would that be putting Buxton in CF or calling up Wallner and DFA Kepler?  I would never change a line-up that is hot.  Playing Buxton right now does not make the line-up better.

Some of that isn't on the manager, though. Who gets called up, sent down, DFA'd ... not on the manager. And I'm not sure that Buxton playing CF vs DH is a Baldelli decision alone. But, agree with some of the lineup choices and who's hot/not and playing accordingly. The strictness to matchups annoys me and wish he'd bend some on that.

[Craig Arko]

2 hours ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

“Keynes is dead.”

- god

God save the Keynes.

[Riverbrian]

10 hours ago, RickOShea said:

Baseball has a way,  for the best (divisionally or league-wise) finishing at the top, most of the time. That's the intrigue of a 162 game schedule.  Streaks, winning ones or losing ones, skew our perceptions and expectations.  After the last Milwaukee game, we were world beaters in some people's minds.  After this Detroit loss, we're scum.  The point is, IMO, that most seasons are like a roller coaster, in performance and emotions.  We need to let this play out a bit more.

However, part of the attraction of baseball, is it provides an opportunity for us to ride this roller coaster and experience all of its ups, downs, twists and turns.  So, if you're passionate about this game or a specific team, you're going to look at small sections of a season and critique, accordingly.  That's the beauty of it.  You can be right one day and wrong the next in your assessments.  Let's tolerate the assessments.  Let them be a reflection of one's passion for the game.

Every Year Every Team... without fail. 

I'm always amazed that a lot of people don't seem to notice the rollercoaster that it is. 

[Blyleven2011]

19 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Umm... because he's so competitive, he absolutely would lie to his manager, and he's going to say that he's good to go. That's why I like Gray. Love the competitiveness. He gets it. 

Seth either I wrote it wrong or you read it wrong  ....

I was stating that Gray was probably telling him he was good to go and im sure he was good to go  because of his competiveness to help the team for another inning and Rocco saw something that wasn't right in grays start and didn't let him pitch the fifth ... 

I too like gray and all the starters 

[TwinkieFan4life]

20 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

He worked through challenges pretty much every inning, as he acknowledges in this press conference. He had bases loaded an nobody out. Yes, he got out of it a couple of times and limited the damage, but he clearly wasn't on tonight. 

Love the competitiveness. Love the self-evaluation. Love that he wants to keep going. 

Love more that Rocco didn't back down. Gray is getting his innings in this year. He's got really nothing to complain about. This will - or at least should - be over by tomorrow. 

Seth maybe there is an explanation for this, but I noticed something interesting in our starter game logs.  Neither Pablo or Ryan have been pulled after 80 or fewer pitches this season.  After his first start Pablo has thrown fewer than 88 just once (83).  Joe Ryan has typically sat somewhere between the high 80's and 100 pitches when pulled.

Sonny Gray seems to be treated differently.  He has been pulled with pitch counts in the 70's 4 times.  He wasn't particularly bad in any of these starts.  Obviously P Lopez has had rougher outings.  What could explain the tendency to hook Gray in the 70's while never doing so with your other top  starters?

[Wilco1]

I really believe we need to get rid of baldelli. His management relies on numbers to a fault. No sense in my going over all the poor decisions he’s made this year. I don’t think sonny gray will resign with the twins because of baldelli. I don’t believe he I’d the only current player getting disgusted with him and his analytics to decided who plays or not. Some of our young talent has to be discouraged every time they bench them for someone with a lesser batting average. If the owner was smart he’d replace falvey too. The club has been getting some great crowds lately but I can’t see that continuing once they dropout of first place in a league that is as bad as the central. I would also send reliever Lopez with roccco since he likes him so much. I feel I’ve wasted to much of my time watching this team and even more writing this review.

[Blyleven2011]

18 minutes ago, Wilco1 said:

I really believe we need to get rid of baldelli. His management relies on numbers to a fault. No sense in my going over all the poor decisions he’s made this year. I don’t think sonny gray will resign with the twins because of baldelli. I don’t believe he I’d the only current player getting disgusted with him and his analytics to decided who plays or not. Some of our young talent has to be discouraged every time they bench them for someone with a lesser batting average. If the owner was smart he’d replace falvey too. The club has been getting some great crowds lately but I can’t see that continuing once they dropout of first place in a league that is as bad as the central. I would also send reliever Lopez with roccco since he likes him so much. I feel I’ve wasted to much of my time watching this team and even more writing this review.

Your amongst friends that are disappointed too ...

[jorgenswest]

13 hours ago, TwinkieFan4life said:

Seth maybe there is an explanation for this, but I noticed something interesting in our starter game logs.  Neither Pablo or Ryan have been pulled after 80 or fewer pitches this season.  After his first start Pablo has thrown fewer than 88 just once (83).  Joe Ryan has typically sat somewhere between the high 80's and 100 pitches when pulled.

Sonny Gray seems to be treated differently.  He has been pulled with pitch counts in the 70's 4 times.  He wasn't particularly bad in any of these starts.  Obviously P Lopez has had rougher outings.  What could explain the tendency to hook Gray in the 70's while never doing so with your other top  starters?

It matters how you get to those 70s. Did you get there is 4 innings or is 5 or 6 innings? Did you get there by having a 27 and 35 pitch inning? 

I think if you look to that detail you might see that Gray is treated differently because he arrived at those pitch count numbers differently.

This is on Gray. Throw strikes to the Detroit hitters in the bottom half of the line up instead of putting up inning pitch counts of 27 and 35 by walking four of them and you will stay in the game. Against a team like Detroit we need him pitching 7 innings instead coming out after 4 and questioning whether he should get a 5th inning. He can’t get to 7 without throwing strikes.

[the_brute_squad]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:16 AM, jmlease1 said:

I'm really confused why you think changing the manager will significantly cut down on the hitter's strikeouts. A new manager isn't swinging the bat.

Twins pitching was bad last night, and it sucked. They let a meh Tigers squad feel hope instead of stomping on their faces. Gray did not have it and was fighting his command. I get there are those who thought he should have gotten a chance to get it back in the 5th, but he did nothing in the 4th to show he should. 3 walks in an inning is pretty bad, and it's not like he was getting squeezed by the ump. Moran couldn't hold it down, and Lopez let them tack on extras in the 9th which technically didn't change the outcome but sure felt like they put it out of reach. Just not a good night for the pitching staff outside of Pagan (man, that feels weird to type).

Offense was a bit toothless last night outside of the 2nd, but Boyd did a good job hitting the zone.

Got to re-set for Friday and put this one behind them.

The hitting philosophy of the team comes from the manager. His philosophy obviously doesn't fit the talents and abilities of this team. 

I'm old enough to remember when players, even HOF, would choke up, go the other way, do whatever they could to put the ball in play. Rocco obviously thinks every swing should be for the fences at all cost. Might have worked for the Bomba squad but that team is long gone.