Should the Twins Try to Pull Off an Early Trade?

[twinfan]

I'd rather they bring up some AAA hitters than trade anyone. We don't have much to offer right now.

[jkcarew]

To be a buyer, you should be ‘close’ or at least a serious team. This team can’t keep it’s head above water even while playing a soft ALC schedule. As of June 8, I’m a seller, if anything. 

[Fire Dan Gladden]

5 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

IMO, they are destroying the team from within, I haven't forgotten 21 or 22, and how unwatchable this team is now. This team has lost 5 in a row, 6 of their last 10 and now are under .500. It is totally up to you to enjoy this team, I am pissed and disappointed in them.

If they were in the East they would be 14 games back, if they were in the west they would be 10 games back.

Imagine if somebody said the second place team in the division was 5 games under .500 and the lead was 2 games.

So you wouldn't enjoy a repeat of the 1987 Twins.  Got it.

[Karbo]

20 hours ago, TopGunn#22 said:

There are certain guys I'd be willing to move on from NOW.  Kepler and Larnach come to mind.  If I was trading Larnach straight up for Esty Perez from the A's I'd do it to get a speedy, young CF'er at the top of my order who would create some havoc on the base paths.  I'd trade Kepler for a bag of baseballs and bring Wallner up.  This removes two OF'ers who i consider dead weight while adding two others who are younger.  Perez gives us speed.  Wallner gives us power.  Those are moves that could help right away without moving a Spencer Steer type of player.  

The additional BP arm needs to wait until closer to the deadline.  Nobody is trading that kind of asset until they can maximize their leverage.  Who knows, maybe Jorge Lopez will get his "stuff' together and if Stewart keeps doing what he's been doing and Theilbar does what he's capable of, the BP becomes a strength again.  

The biggest thing holding this team back are the "stars."  Correa is absolutely lost at the plate and Buxton, despite all the tender loving care is back on the IL.  Polanco has been underwhelming to this point.  The hope on offense now rests on Kirilloff and Lewis.  Unless Correa, Buxton and Polanco REALLY pick things up the Twins are going to continue to struggle offensively.  

Larnach is one of the RBI leaders on this team though.

[TwinsDr2021]

10 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

So you wouldn't enjoy a repeat of the 1987 Twins.  Got it.

yes, that is exactly what I said.

This team is nothing like the 87 teams, the 87 was fun to watch and won 85 games, this current team is not on pace for that. I hope like heck they can turn it around, I hope BB and CC figure their crap out. I hope players can stay healthy, I hope!

[jorgenswest]

12 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

So you wouldn't enjoy a repeat of the 1987 Twins.  Got it.

I don’t think those playoff conditions exist anymore.

• In 1987 the Twins had home field advantage in both the ALCS and WS in spite of their inferior record.
• In 1987 the Twins had to make it through just two rounds of playoffs instead of 4 rounds.

I am going to have to dust off my VCR if I want to enjoy a repeat of the 1987 Twins. I think the best I can hope for with this team is a repeat of the 2009 or 2017 Twins. Playoffs are no longer a crapshoot. 

[Riverbrian]

21 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I don’t think those playoff conditions exist anymore.

• In 1987 the Twins had home field advantage in both the ALCS and WS in spite of their inferior record.
• In 1987 the Twins had to make it through just two rounds of playoffs instead of 4 rounds.

I am going to have to dust off my VCR if I want to enjoy a repeat of the 1987 Twins. I think the best I can hope for with this team is a repeat of the 2009 or 2017 Twins. Playoffs are no longer a crapshoot. 

Agreed that the amount of wins necessary have increased due to more wild card teams... that can't be argued. 

However... It's still a small sample size. A 13-9 record in the playoffs will give the 6th seed a World Series Title. Every team in baseball (Even the Oakland A's) is capable of going 13-9 over a 22 game stretch.  

It is still possible that Jeremy Pena, Jorge Solar, Steve Pearce, Ben Zobrist and David Freese type players can be the World Series MVP. 

I won't call it a crapshoot but I'm sure you know what is actually possible by making the playoffs.  

[jorgenswest]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

However... It's still a small sample size. A 13-9 record in the playoffs will give the 6th seed a World Series Title. Every team in baseball (Even the Oakland A's) is capable of going 13-9 over a 22 game stretch.  

This isn’t a random 22 game stretch. I don’t believe there is any chance the A’s or even a .500 team in a weak division can go 13-9 in a stretch where they see the best in the AL and NL. I don’t believe the 1987  Twins could have gone 13-9 against the best in the NL and AL in 1987. Without the unearned dome advantage I don’t think they win in 87.

The conditions are very different now and we need to set the bar higher than best in AL central. Trading the future to add players at the deadline in hopes of winning the central will continue the cycle of mediocrity. Short of being the best team in the AL over the next 6 weeks, I don’t think the Twins should be a buyer.

 

[Riverbrian]

9 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

This isn’t a random 22 game stretch. I don’t believe there is any chance the A’s or even a .500 team in a weak division can go 13-9 in a stretch where they see the best in the AL and NL. I don’t believe the 1987  Twins could have gone 13-9 against the best in the NL and AL in 1987. Without the unearned dome advantage I don’t think they win in 87.

The conditions are very different now and we need to set the bar higher than best in AL central. Trading the future to add players at the deadline in hopes of winning the central will continue the cycle of mediocrity. Short of being the best team in the AL over the next 6 weeks, I don’t think the Twins should be a buyer.

 

I understand that the intensity is certainly up in that 22 game stretch and no I wouldn't bet my house on team like the A's going 13-9... but, 13-9 is not an impossible hill to climb. 

The A's won't be invited... we both know that. If the playoffs started today. 

#1 Seed - Rays

#2 Seed - Rangers

#3 Seed - Twins

#4 Seed - Orioles

#5 Seed - Yankees

#6 Seed - Jays

Twins would draw the Jays for 3 and Face the Rangers for 5 if they win 2 games against the Jays.  

Orioles/Yankees winner in 3 would draw the Rays for 5. 

You'll never convince me that the Twins have no chance of winning 2 against the Jays and 3 against the Rangers based on what is happening in June.

Especially with these starting pitchers. 

Now... you might be able to convince me that if the Twins don't fix their offensive problems soon that they will be golfing with the A's  and watching Cleveland, Chicago or Detroit facing that 6th seed.  

 

[KirbyDome89]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:38 AM, chpettit19 said:

I'm a no on this. Not because I don't think they need to make changes, but because if they're going to make changes I want them to be big changes, and I don't think this FO deserves the chance to make the big changes.

This organization is in a tough spot. Correa and Buxton were/are supposed to be the foundation on which this offense is built. If they're bad, and they're terrible right now, this org is going to have a near impossible time scoring. It's really hard to replace your 3/4 hitters in the middle of a season when they turn into bench production bats.

Tying back to this FO being allowed to make big changes, they're in "win now" mode. This FO had a plan, and have attempted to execute it. If they failed they shouldn't be allowed to be the ones to hit the reset button. If you're going to trade Gray and/or Polanco types you can't let this FO be the ones to do it. But you're not plucking a top guy from the Rays, Dodgers, Astros, whoever in the middle of the season to come in and make those big moves. 

This team needs to figure things out on their own. There's no magic trade to save them. Put the "young" guys in there and let them sink or swim. Don't trade prospects to try to make up for refusing to DFA Kepler, Correa, and Buxton being bad, and refusing to start Jeffers over Vazquez. Allowing this FO to try to save their jobs by putting any sort of dent in the farm system would be a mistake.

If they're selling in July the FO should be gone correct? 

The worst case scenario would be to stand pat, eek out a hollow division title, and forge ahead status quo. 

The Twins are in a weird place.

[BillyBallLives]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:42 AM, rv78 said:

I'd trade the FO and a few more guys... Rocco and his coaches. Acquiring hitters like Gallo that can't hit and keeping more hitters that can't hit like Kepler and then batting them at the top of the lineup or in the middle of the lineup proves these guys don't know what they are doing. If they trade away more prospects this year to try to make this current team better then they are only doubling down on their own stupidity. Add Buxton and Correa to Gallo and Kepler that are worthless. The last thing they need are more veterans that this FO thinks are good.

You nailed it. FO track record for trades is a D+ at best. Bullpen should have and could have been addressed in February....not now when the cost is far greater. I can't even watch this team anymore, The Kings of K from the Land of 10,000 K's is a boring brand of baseball. 

 

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

If they're selling in July the FO should be gone correct? 

The worst case scenario would be to stand pat, eek out a hollow division title, and forge ahead status quo. 

The Twins are in a weird place.

Weird place for sure.

I don't know how to salvage this season outside of the players simply figuring it out and playing better. I mean you start with getting the young guys up, and the Keplers of the world out of here. But there's only so many moves they can make from within the org itself.

If they're in sell mode in July it's because the FO screwed up so they shouldn't be allowed to be the sellers, but if you're bad enough to be in sell mode in July you need to sell. 

I don't see any way the Pohlads fire people midseason. Just not their style. But I also don't feel like they're going to fire them after the season either (that's mostly based on today's Gleeman and the Geek). This is all becoming very depressing.

[Riverbrian]

I would not be opposed to an early deal for a rental hitter... a rental hitter deal doesn't have to carry this enormous Ohtani price tag.

Someone... Like Umm Candelario with the Nats for example.   

Pick him up for a 10th or 15th ranked minor league player. 

I know some will be bothered by Candelario being a 3B with Lewis in town. Let Candelario play 1B and Kirilloff can play some OF.

Or... don't throw things at me. Lewis can play some OF... Maybe even CF. 

Kepler can be DFA'd to give Candelario a 26 and 40 man roster spot. Depth holds and we replace a struggling hitter in Kepler for a decent (not spectacular) hitter in Candelario and it costs us a Jose Salas type player.  

Now if you get Correa and Buxton back and playing like they are capable of playing. Lewis and Kirilloff performing along with Polanco. That occasional Gallo dinger might carry more weight and his .180 batting average won't be as problematic. 

Farmer, Taylor, Solano, Castro, Wallner, Larnach, Julien are still around for depth and hopefully they will be allowed to be in an honest competition for playing time should any of the above get hurt or struggle. 

I wouldn't be opposed to that type of deal.  

As far as the trade deadline goes. I don't believe in standing still.

If the team is in contention... help the team.

If the team is not in contention. Trade the expiring contracts... get something for them.

If we don't fix this offense soon... we will be trading expiring contracts.   

[KirbyDome89]

21 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Weird place for sure.

I don't know how to salvage this season outside of the players simply figuring it out and playing better. I mean you start with getting the young guys up, and the Keplers of the world out of here. But there's only so many moves they can make from within the org itself.

If they're in sell mode in July it's because the FO screwed up so they shouldn't be allowed to be the sellers, but if you're bad enough to be in sell mode in July you need to sell. 

I don't see any way the Pohlads fire people midseason. Just not their style. But I also don't feel like they're going to fire them after the season either (that's mostly based on today's Gleeman and the Geek). This is all becoming very depressing.

There's no quick fix for sure.

Absolutely, if they're selling in July there's no world in which this FO should be retained but I don't see the Pohlads having the gusto to make that move either. Honestly the fact that this conversation is taking place is a pretty good indicator or what should be done. 

[ashbury]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:34 PM, chpettit19 said:

I don't see any way the Pohlads fire people midseason. Just not their style.

The last time they fired a front office, it was mid-season.

Unless we're going to get into semantics of "resigned" versus "fired".  If they wanted him to ride out the rest of the season, he surely would have.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

The last time they fired a front office, it was mid-season.

Unless we're going to get into semantics of "resigned" versus "fired".  If they wanted him to ride out the rest of the season, he surely would have.

Well that's what I get for going from memory. Thanks for the correction.

[twinstalker]

Twins need to trade for prospects because they are bereft of prospects from A, A+, and AA (save for the overrated Lee).  They need to trade Kepler for a complex league pitcher who breathes.  They do not need to give up any more prospects for players they overrate or are injured.  Their scouting seems especially weak.

I'm seriously doubting Falvey has any idea what he's doing.  There are strengths, certainly, but he seems the guy you want to trade with in your fantasy league.

[Riverbrian]

On 6/9/2023 at 11:19 AM, jorgenswest said:

I don’t believe there is any chance the A’s or even a .500 team in a weak division can go 13-9 in a stretch where they see the best in the AL and NL

Just poking fun.

I waited until the streak stopped before posting this. 

Pirates, Brewers and Rays

[jorgenswest]

34 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Just poking fun.

I waited until the streak stopped before posting this. 

Pirates, Brewers and Rays

I live out here and really hope the A’s stay. They also won a series against the Braves in May. They have a chance to win their third series in a row today. If they can follow that up with winning a fourth series against the Phillies no need to poke fun you can just poke. A seven game series will be more challenging but it is not easy to win 4 series in a row. Today they can make it three series in a row. Go A’s!

The Twins also have not won four series in a row this year. The best they have done in two in a row. They have a chance with the Tigers and Red Sox coming up. Winning four series in a row is not trivial and certainly not a crapshoot. 

[John Belinski]

The Twins need better hitters so a trade is needed. With 7 possible starting pitchers we could trade one of them to get hitting help.

[Riverbrian]

3 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

I live out here and really hope the A’s stay. They also won a series against the Braves in May. They have a chance to win their third series in a row today. If they can follow that up with winning a fourth series against the Phillies no need to poke fun you can just poke. A seven game series will be more challenging but it is not easy to win 4 series in a row. Today they can make it three series in a row. Go A’s!

The Twins also have not won four series in a row this year. The best they have done in two in a row. They have a chance with the Tigers and Red Sox coming up. Winning four series in a row is not trivial and certainly not a crapshoot. 

The Brewers caught the A's at the wrong time... and it's probably safe to say that Twins caught the Brewers at the right time. It's why I love baseball and why I don't use all of my knowledge and bet on it so I can retire. 

You live out in the Bay Area? California is a beautiful state. The area around Carmel, Pebble Beach is one of the most scenic areas in the country in my opinion... especially as you head south on the pacific coast highway. It's a jaw dropping drive. 

Vegas is looking as close to a done deal as a done deal can look. 

I feel for the Oakland fans but all sports teams have fled the city and I can only guess it's because the city has bigger fish to fry  beyond keeping an owner of a baseball franchise fed because what I saw suggested that Oakland had to fix some stuff beyond  keeping sports teams.  

I took in a game last August at the Coliseum and I was shocked by the condition of it. They don't even bother cleaning up the blocks and blocks of garbage lining the streets that surround the stadium. It wasn't just a loose McDonalds Filet O Fish wrapper... it was garbage piled up to the point that you couldn't see the sidewalk. Even Detroit can keep the area around the stadium clean for a couple of blocks.

Modern stadiums have all kinds of additional revenue streams built into them and if Oakland doesn't build one for the owner... another city will.

That city is Las Vegas according to the state representatives who quickly got the money together to lure the franchise in. 

Watch out for earthquakes my friend and I'm sorry that you can't give the gas pump an extra squeeze to top of the tank.