Max Scherzer ejected, then suspended

[William K Johnson]

Scherzer is ejected for the same reason that German was found guilty of, that is a substance found on his glove.    Just as German stated that it was excess rosin, the umpires in the Mets-Dodgers game weren't buying it and Scherzer was ejected.    However, in our game with the Yankees, since German is a Yankee, his penalty was to wash his hands and promise not to do it again.   

[cheeseheadgophfan]

8 minutes ago, William K Johnson said:

Scherzer is ejected for the same reason that German was found guilty of, that is a substance found on his glove.    Just as German stated that it was excess rosin, the umpires in the Mets-Dodgers game weren't buying it and Scherzer was ejected.    However, in our game with the Yankees, since German is a Yankee, his penalty was to wash his hands and promise not to do it again.   

And yet he didn't wash his hands......and was still allowed to pitch.

[jkcarew]

I don't think we yet have quite enough information to really know the situations were totally analogous.

Even if they were, these situations are unfortunately, (or maybe fortunately if a Twins pitcher is involved at some point), going to involve some subjectivity on the part of the umpires as it relates to the use of rosin...and what looks like, or doesn't look like rosin...and what's excessive vs acceptable.

I actually think there's a very fine line with regards to 'legal' substances (rosin, saliva in some circumstances) ...I don't want the pitcher's objective to be obtaining 'unfair' or 'unnatural' advantage...but I also want them to have a very good grip/control of the ball in their hand. Especially in the cooler weather. It's a matter of player safety.

Also, if the umpires are playing favorites, I have a hard time believing they toss the hall-of-famer and defer to Domingo German...no matter who they play for.

[Nine of twelve]

Of course we don't know for sure, but it's possible that the crew that tossed Scherzer learned from the mistake made by the crew that allowed German to resume pitching.

[ashbury]

19 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

Of course we don't know for sure, but it's possible that the crew that tossed Scherzer learned from the mistake made by the crew that allowed German to resume pitching.

Or maybe, the league brass huddled, decided to clarify a detail or two, and sent out a directive to all crews going forward.

[Squirrel]

Or maybe Scherzer tried what German did and this crew didn’t let it pass

[Richie the Rally Goat]

the Athletic sounds like the Scherzer ejection is to serve notice 
https://theathletic.com/4429864/2023/04/19/max-scherzer-ejection-sticky-substance/
 

“In a memo sent to all 30 teams this spring, MLB said that pitchers who are caught possessing or applying any foreign substance would be subject to immediate ejection and automatic suspension. So the Mets could be looking at losing Scherzer not just for this start but for an extended period.

Equally noteworthy: Last year, there wasn’t a single ejection of any pitcher for “sticky stuff” usage. Then this year, despite the heightened focus by the league, spin rates on both fastballs and breaking balls have not dropped. But Scherzer’s ejection appears to be a signal that this time, MLB means business. — Stark”

[ashbury]

56 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Or maybe Scherzer tried what German did and this crew didn’t let it pass

The Red Sox announcer at tonight's game talked about the incident and pointed out that the umpire (whose name I forgot) is the only one to have thrown out a pitcher for a substance on a hand this season.  And this is his third.  So yeah, it could be just the judgment call by the particular crew.

[Nine of twelve]

1 hour ago, Nine of twelve said:

Of course we don't know for sure, but it's possible that the crew that tossed Scherzer learned from the mistake made by the crew that allowed German to resume pitching.

 

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Or maybe, the league brass huddled, decided to clarify a detail or two, and sent out a directive to all crews going forward.

I think these two things are pretty much the same.

[tony&rodney]

Hard to eject German in Yankee Stadium when he had thrown three perfect innings. Maybe if it was at Target Field.

[Nine of twelve]

12 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Hard to eject German in Yankee Stadium when he had thrown three perfect innings. Maybe if it was at Target Field.

In theory, where the game is being played and how the pitcher is doing have no bearing whatsoever. But: In theory, in theory and in practice are always the same. In practice, in theory and in practice are not always the same.

[Nine of twelve]

The most obvious thing to me about the German and Scherzer situations is that MLB has to make the rules governing the use of grip-altering substances by pitchers as uniform and objective as possible.

I understand and agree that pitchers must not be allowed to make any alteration to the ball. But batters are allowed essentially unlimited use of grip enhancers. Is it fair that pitchers can't do the same, as long as the ball itself is not altered? If rosin is allowed as a grip enhancer, why should other grip enhancers be banned? This also opens up the Pandora's box of the use of lubricants on the pitching hand. Why should those be banned as long as the ball is not altered? Historically, one reason for the use of rosin is to dry the hands. I have never been a pitcher so this may be a naive take, but it seems to me that simply drying one's hand on a towel should be helpful.

I'm starting to think that the only solution is to allow no use of grip-altering substances of any kind for pitchers.

[4twinsJA]

With all the stats, spin rates available today in real time, I would think someone could be monitoring spin rates. If a pitcher suddenly has significantly higher spin rates, then give them a closer inspection and if find something would lead to ejection. Someone posted how German's spin rates were significantly lower after being confronted by umpire. 

[Trov]

From what I have heard today is that the umpire for Scherzer said his hand was the most sticky hand he has felt while doing the hand checks.  Scherzer says it was just rosin, which all people who have used it say your hand will get really sticky from it.  I also understand you cannot wash it easy in just a minute or two, but requires long washing or use of other products.  If the league will continue to toss guys for rosin they need to just get rid of rosin.  However, when hitters start getting plunked more and more, they cannot complain. 

[Craig Arko]

It appeared during yesterdays game at Boston that the umps were checking all pitchers at the end of the half-inning.

[Doctor Gast]

Thank you William for starting this thread about something that needed to be discussed & challenged. Too many MLB pitchers have been abusing this rosin thing. Rosin is for keeping pitchers hand dry like 9 of 12 said. The problem has never been a pitcher using too much rosin as German protested. It's when used as a sticky substance for an unfair advantage we have a problem. Rosin should be applied only on the mound, not in the dugout where it can be doctored up with sweat, alcohol etc. 

Although the 2 situations are simular, German situation was much more flagrant. Where German did not comply at all with the demands. Also was more obvious because German was having a terrible season not able to go 5 innings until his rosin game with us where he was unhittable. I also believe it was club motivated because TB was running away with division. MN came in with the momentum that could have swept the Yanks at home, putting them in a much deeper hole. The Yanks had to do something, the simple thing was over do the rosin thing. Having a cockamamie excuse all prerehearsed before hand ready for the emminent umpire check. Being at home they figured they could get by with it and they did. Hats off to Cuzzi for having the scrupples to enforce the rule. Boo to the NYY umps for backing down.

Another thing facinating is all the NYY driven hype on social media that went on after the German incident to defend the umps NYY bias non decision. Of course rosin is legal but not when it's purposely used as a sticky substance.

[Nine of twelve]

1 minute ago, Doctor Gast said:

Hats off to Cuzzi for having the scruples

Words I thought I'd never see written on this site.

[August J Gloop]

I'm sure we'll see the evolution of this match up with other cheating "scandals" in sports. First the players will be incredulous. Then some me-first rabble rouser like Donaldson has a particular beef with a particular pitcher and wants some attention. They'll pour out a tiny bit of tea about some clubbie they know who makes DIY-tack that looks and smells like rosin+sweat. Then the pitchers will act contrite and say they didn't know and throw said clubbie into the ocean. But it won't stop, and someone will get a big suspension and we'll hear about 'the big mistake'. 

With Scherzer? Dude went so fast to swearing on his kids lives that it wasn't cheating. He's a man who is used to screaming and intimidating others into accepting his reality. He need to keep his spin rate up as his velo dips, and he went the cheater's route, just like German. They have crap on their glove for Pete's sake. They aren't just putting rosin on their fingers and then sweating that into a fine paste. 

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Craig Arko said:

It appeared during yesterdays game at Boston that the umps were checking all pitchers at the end of the half-inning.

That's been SOP for a year or two now, hasn't it?

[h2oface]

The umpire was Phil Cuzzi. What more do you need to know? He has had trouble seeing for years. Judgement impaired is one of his traits. Unbelieveable he is still allowed to umpire. Remember, as you judge Scherzer without touching his hands or really knowing any details other than spin, we have Carlos Correa on our team.

https://nypost.com/2023/04/19/umpire-phil-cuzzi-who-ejected-max-scherzer-has-prior-glove-drama/

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/sports/mlb/2012/10/14/1633511/

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

6 hours ago, h2oface said:

The umpire was Phil Cuzzi. What more do you need to know? He has had trouble seeing for years. Judgement impaired is one of his traits. Unbelieveable he is still allowed to umpire. Remember, as you judge Scherzer without touching his hands or really knowing any details other than spin, we have Carlos Correa on our team.

https://nypost.com/2023/04/19/umpire-phil-cuzzi-who-ejected-max-scherzer-has-prior-glove-drama/

https://www.usatoday.com/videos/sports/mlb/2012/10/14/1633511/

 

The only thing you can say nicely about Phil effin’ Cuzzi is he isn’t Angel Hernandez

[Squirrel]

Now suspended:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/04/max-scherzer-given-10-game-suspension-plans-to-appeal.html

[h2oface]

Sometimes ignorance makes people proudly act like they know what they are talking about. Scherzer did as he was told in front of umpires, and the alcohol activated the rosin to be more sticky. Looks like MLB and the teams need to come up with a solvent that works, instead of making the pitcher get more sticky and then ejecting them and suspending them.

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2023/04/24/david-cone-rosin-experiment-sunday-night-baseball-max-scherzer-suspension