If only the Twins could find a right handed bat who averages 38 home runs, 98 RBI, 90 runs scored per 162 games with a career OPS over .800

[Vanimal46]

I posted a couple of times in the Sano Farewell threads that he’ll have a hard time finding employment this winter. I didn’t think he would get an MLB contract and will have to settle for a minor league + ST invite deal. He will be joining old friend Willians Astudillo in Japan by 2024. 

[DocBauer]

No thank you. Forgetting 2022 and any remaining hope/belief he might turn up in shape and determined and ready to go, or that he might suddenly be capable of playing 140+ games  sometimes it's just time for both parties to move on.

I also don't see a fit. Arraez is at 1B, and hopefully Kirilloff will finally be healthy and able to advance his career. Miranda and Gallo can also play 1B. This team needs a RH bat who can play OF to counter all the LH bats, and be better than Garlick. There's still a handful of guys out there who can fill that role. And brining them on board is a better fit for the team construction than hoping Sano would suddenly be what he was always hoped for.

[mrtwinsfan]

J.D. Martinez signed for less than gallo,  his average was 100 pts higher , and he is right hand4ed batter, oh wait we already got thje  old bald guy, to hit lefties, 

[dxpavelka]

7 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

A little confusing because Sano has never hit 38 HR in a season nor 98 RBIs.

So I think the wording was a little tricky.

And e-gads, he’s comin off a season with an .083 batting average. The Twins would be stark raving crazy to bring him back. Low batting averages are what made the Twins offense so inconsistent and ineffective last year.

Not tricky at all.  Clearly states "per 162 games"  Go to baseball-reference.com and it's right there in black and white.  The .800 OPS is even less  tricky.

[Fat Calvin]

Yeah,me too.  I'm surprised nobody's signed Sano yet.  In fact, I'm surprised I haven't heard a peep out of him or about him this off season.  I wouldn't mind the Twins taking a flier on him.  If he's healthy, give him a one year contract with a base base and a ton of incentives to make a lot of money if he performs.

 

 

[dxpavelka]

14 hours ago, DocBauer said:

No thank you. Forgetting 2022 and any remaining hope/belief he might turn up in shape and determined and ready to go, or that he might suddenly be capable of playing 140+ games  sometimes it's just time for both parties to move on.

I also don't see a fit. Arraez is at 1B, and hopefully Kirilloff will finally be healthy and able to advance his career. Miranda and Gallo can also play 1B. This team needs a RH bat who can play OF to counter all the LH bats, and be better than Garlick. There's still a handful of guys out there who can fill that role. And brining them on board is a better fit for the team construction than hoping Sano would suddenly be what he was always hoped for.

Yes, Arraez is at first and yes, he just won a batting title.  But he won a batting title with an OPS under .800.  That's hard to do.  It also portends empty numbers.  And as far as the "hope" that Kirilloff will finally be healthy, hope is a TERRIBLE strategy.

 

[ashbury]

23 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Yes, Arraez is at first and yes, he just won a batting title.  But he won a batting title with an OPS under .800.  That's hard to do.  It also portends empty numbers.  And as far as the "hope" that Kirilloff will finally be healthy, hope is a TERRIBLE strategy.

But Sano hasn't recently exceeded the .800 OPS threshold you tout either, not since 2019, when the ball was juiced and he was still 26. He'll be 30 next May, and he'll have to bounce back a lot in order to achieve even the mediocre overall results of 2020-21 when he was a below-average contributor overall. The terrible strategy of hope plays a large part in investing anything in Sano for 2023.

[dxpavelka]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

But Sano hasn't recently achieved the .800 OPS threshold you tout either, not since 2019, when the ball was juiced and he was still 26. He'll be 30 next May, and he'll have to bounce back a lot in order to achieve just the mediocre overall results of 2020-21 when he was a below-average contributor overall. The terrible strategy of hope plays a large part in investing anything in Sano for 2023.

Sano has a career OPS over .800 so we've seen that he CAN do it.  With Kirilloff all we have his hope. 

[ashbury]

1 minute ago, dxpavelka said:

Sano has a career OPS over .800 so we've seen that he CAN do it. 

You are hoping against hope that that incarnation of Sano still exists.

[dxpavelka]

4 minutes ago, ashbury said:

You are hoping against hope that that incarnation of Sano still exists.

I'm hoping that an incarnation of Sano that I've seen before still exists.  You're hoping that a version of Kirilloff you've never seen actually might exist.  Willing to take my chances.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

I'm hoping that an incarnation of Sano that I've seen before still exists.  You're hoping that a version of Kirilloff you've never seen actually might exist.  Willing to take my chances.

Don't think I said a peep about Kirilloff in reference to Sano, but have fun with your forecasts.

[Stew]

I  Know someone who could do that for the twins. But can we keep him healthy and play 140 games. Come on Buxton ! One great season before your bones fall off. And they sweep you off the field.

[h2oface]

4 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Yes, Arraez is at first and yes, he just won a batting title.  But he won a batting title with an OPS under .800.  That's hard to do.  It also portends empty numbers.  And as far as the "hope" that Kirilloff will finally be healthy, hope is a TERRIBLE strategy.

 

That's where baseball is at now? A place where the best batting average can be championed as "empty numbers"? Where a base hit is subject to disdain? But Ks and rare hits are accepted for the occasional solo home run? SMH.

[dxpavelka]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Don't think I said a peep about Kirilloff in reference to Sano, but have fun with your forecasts.

"and hopefully Kirilloff will finally be healthy"  Your words not mine.

[dxpavelka]

5 minutes ago, h2oface said:

That's where baseball is at now? A place where the best batting average can be championed as "empty numbers"? Where a base hit is subject to disdain? But Ks and rare hits are accepted for the occasional solo home run? SMH.

Hits for average but scores and drives in runs at a pedestrian rates.  That screams empty to me.  The game's about scoring runs not hitting for average.

[ashbury]

22 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

"and hopefully Kirilloff will finally be healthy"  Your words not mine.

Somebody's words, anyway.

[h2oface]

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

Hits for average but scores and drives in runs at a pedestrian rates.  That screams empty to me.  The game's about scoring runs not hitting for average.

I guess that means the players with the OPS are striking out and not making contact after he gets on base, maybe the guy hitting .163 and striking out 40% of the time, and the guys in front of him more of the same, and not on base to take advantage of the hits and be driven in to score. Bummer.

I think it includes scoring, driving in runs, and getting lots of hits and walks - great defense, base running, and accurate throws, and great pitching. Lots of great pitching, because it happens the most in every game. Pitching the ball. All important. None empty. Anything but an out from the batter, and GIDP. I'll take any hit any time. The more the better. Doubles, triples and homers are gravy. Will take them as often as possible, too. Not fond of a low average ever. I try not to make excuses for it.

[Vanimal46]

For the last 3 years, Sano has been nothing better than a replacement player. I’ll bet by February 1 he’s still looking for work. He’s been a one dimensional player who has lost the ability to catch up to fastballs in the zone. If anyone offers him playing time at the MLB level good luck. 

[dxpavelka]

5 hours ago, h2oface said:

I guess that means the players with the OPS are striking out and not making contact after he gets on base, maybe the guy hitting .163 and striking out 40% of the time, and the guys in front of him more of the same, and not on base to take advantage of the hits and be driven in to score. Bummer.

I think it includes scoring, driving in runs, and getting lots of hits and walks - great defense, base running, and accurate throws, and great pitching. Lots of great pitching, because it happens the most in every game. Pitching the ball. All important. None empty. Anything but an out from the batter, and GIDP. I'll take any hit any time. The more the better. Doubles, triples and homers are gravy. Will take them as often as possible, too. Not fond of a low average ever. I try not to make excuses for it.

Nothing more useless than a high (or any)  average that doesn't produce runs.  Probably  the main reason Arraez' name is coming up in trade talks.

[h2oface]

2 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Nothing more useless than a high (or any)  average that doesn't produce runs.  Probably  the main reason Arraez' name is coming up in trade talks.

[dxpavelka]

8 hours ago, h2oface said:

=batting champion + 78 win team

[Dave The Dastardly]

On 12/29/2022 at 9:04 AM, chpettit19 said:

Miguel Sano.

The Whiffer? Mr. Un Clutch? Mr. Low and Away? Mr. Moonshot Or Nothing? That guy? I'll take Gallo.

[Dave The Dastardly]

18 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

Nothing more useless than a high (or any)  average that doesn't produce runs.  Probably  the main reason Arraez' name is coming up in trade talks.

And I would argue there's nothing more worthless when trailing by multiple runs than a 450 foot moonshot with nobody on base.

Old baseball strategy: get men on base, drive them in. Any way you can.

[dxpavelka]

15 minutes ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

And I would argue there's nothing more worthless when trailing by multiple runs than a 450 foot moonshot with nobody on base.

Old baseball strategy: get men on base, drive them in. Any way you can.

And yet your batting champ only managed to score 88 runs. 

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, dxpavelka said:

And yet your batting champ only managed to score 88 runs. 

Miguel Sano, the implicit subject of this thread, has never scored 88 runs in his major league career. What are we talking about, again?

Arraez scored his runs in 603 plate appearances. Only two other batters in all of MLB with that few PA scored more runs than our Luis. What are we talking about, again?

The "per 162 games" argument seems to come and go at will.

[Greglw3]

On 12/30/2022 at 6:02 PM, chpettit19 said:

 

I didn't start this thread, was just answering the question of who was being discussed. I think the author was being purposefully vague to show Sano's career numbers over 162 games so people would think before automatically writing off such a bat. I have no opinion 1 way or the other on Sano. Was just answering someone's question on who the thread was about.

My response was directed at the author f the thread. It just shows you can do just about anything with numbers that you like.

[dxpavelka]

2 hours ago, ashbury said:

Miguel Sano, the implicit subject of this thread, has never scored 88 runs in his major league career. What are we talking about, again?

Arraez scored his runs in 603 plate appearances. Only two other batters in all of MLB with that few PA scored more runs than our Luis. What are we talking about, again?

The "per 162 games" argument seems to come and go at will.

Perhaps if Sano had been in the lineup Arraez WOULD have scored more runs.

[Parfigliano]

On 12/29/2022 at 11:14 AM, LewFordLives said:

You're forgetting the right-field experiment back in 2016.  The short answer:  No, he cannot play outfield.

I doubt he could even waddle out to RF nowadays.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, Greglw3 said:

My response was directed at the author f the thread. It just shows you can do just about anything with numbers that you like.

Yes, but you quoted my comment answering someone's question about who the thread was about. I was just letting you know I wasn't the author so if you were looking for a response from them you weren't likely to get one from quoting my comment.

[Craig Arko]

Offer him a minor league contract with an invite, if nobody else offers more.