How high would you go for Cole?

[SwainZag]

How well has not signing big time free agents worked out for this team?

Cole isn't some big free agent. It's going to take the biggest offer the game has ever seen to get him to pitch here. It's just not realistic to even think it could and will happen.

[tony&rodney]

 

Zero. They went up to the 11th highest payroll when they extended him and we’re back to 24th two years later.

Zero is the exact number of times Mauer tied the Twins hands. I suppose there are people who believe Trout hurts the Angels too. 

There is a limit the Twins could go for Cole and I really doubt anyone believes the team would consider $300M. If the whispers are true, we don't need to worry about Cole any more.

[goulik]

While I appreciate all the comments and conversation, the point of this post was asking how high would you be willing to go before the actual signings happened. Many many posts have lost that focus.

 

My secondary goal (secretly) was to have this thread as a way of keeping ourselves honest about whether or not we think the Twins should have gone higher when we don't get certain pitchers. Example one, no one was willing to give Strasburg as much as he got The "Big Contract" thread is a better place to argue about Joe Mauer's contract and other similar side discussions.

 

Here, please keep it to how high, how many years would you be willing to go on the now top 3 remaining as this free agent pitching market unfolds in front of us.

 

It seems to me most of you are bowing out on the bidding wars. If all of you are out on Cole, the OP also asked how high you would go on Ryu and Bumgarner. Are we (the TD community) done with all of them and relegating ourselves to the 3rd tier pitchers like we accuse ownership of doing?!?

[Mike Frasier Law]

Cole: 7/260

Ryu: 3/60 (I'd prefer a 2/40 with team option)

Bumgarner 4/85

 

and yes, i think each one is going to get more than that.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

While I appreciate all the comments and conversation, the point of this post was asking how high would you be willing to go before the actual signings happened. Many many posts have lost that focus.

 

My secondary goal (secretly) was to have this thread as a way of keeping ourselves honest about whether or not we think the Twins should have gone higher when we don't get certain pitchers. Example one, no one was willing to give Strasburg as much as he got The "Big Contract" thread is a better place to argue about Joe Mauer's contract and other similar side discussions.

 

Here, please keep it to how high, how many years would you be willing to go on the now top 3 remaining as this free agent pitching market unfolds in front of us.

 

It seems to me most of you are bowing out on the bidding wars. If all of you are out on Cole, the OP also asked how high you would go on Ryu and Bumgarner. Are we (the TD community) done with all of them and relegating ourselves to the 3rd tier pitchers like we accuse ownership of doing?!?

 

Well reality as far as I'm concerned is that we need to walk home with someone big. My offseason plan had us getting Cole, but then again I didn't see the market doing this.. It's been pretty muted the last two years and I thought something like 7/210 would get it done, but teams are opening the check books right now, and it may be something like 7/300 to get him here. I have to admit that this one makes me nervous as a fan, and I want my team to be spending money this offseason.

 

On the down side, your consolation prizes at this point are Ryu or MadBum, and neither excites me due to their obvious warts. After reading the recent piece on why MadBum is not the right answer, I'm probably leaning more towards Ryu, who at least will pitch well when he's healthy, and hope and pray that our pitching health last year was not just dumb luck but something our FO is doing that is repeatable. 

 

The bottom line is that we need to walk away with at least one more high ceiling pitcher... I have a sneaking suspicion at this point that we're trading assets for it. That is not my first choice, but definitely something we have the resources to obtain. 

 

The bottom line is that we're either going to outbid with cash or with prospects, and I'll be very disappointed if we do not. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Ryu is intruiging but I have no idea what he’s worth.

 

Keuchel, no idea. Probably not much. Same with Teheran and Miley.

 

Wheeler signed so quick. I hope the front office did their homework. 5/125 seemed doable for him.

 

That leaves us with Bumgarner. I think my offer in another thread was 3/78, but If he is seeking 9 figures per reports, maybe 5/120 or thereabouts. I don’t know. Bumgarner seems like a steal to me at those prices, for a fierce guy who wants to win, whose mechanics are sound, and has three World Series rings.

[tony&rodney]

Cole can say no to 7/252, but the Twins should still put it forward.

Ryu is unpredictable, but an offer of 3/60 or 4/68 is an effort.

Bumgarner for 5/100 is a ceiling for the Twins.

 

It doesn't feel like these pitchers are keen to join the Twins. While I have no way of knowing, this feels like a difficult situation right now. Hopefully, there are opportunities to sign pitchers like Wood, Teheren, and Treinen as well. While I'm not at all opposed to big trades, there aren't any #1/#2 pitchers available and our young milb guns are soon to be ready; they just need another year. Maybe the Marlins could be cajoled to part with Alcantara. I'm holding out hope for one of the top three remaining to sign with the Twins.

[nicksaviking]

I'm kind of at the point where signing Bumgarner or Ryu would mostly be about showing good faith to the team and to the fans, which in itself might be worth it I suppose. Ryu looks talented but obviously there are injury scares but at this point I don't know that Bumgarner looks like much of a bet to be an upgrade from some of the lesser free agents.

 

Bumgarner is clearly a big name still, but I don't know that these guys are really in a different pitching tier than Nolasco/Santana/Lynn were at the time of their signings. This crop will surely cost more, but as far as talent and prior years' production, they all seem to be in about the same class.

[redstorm]

Ah yes, the classic "mystery team" line. Rabid fans everywhere going crazy thinking it's their team.

 

[nicksaviking]

 

Ah yes, the classic "mystery team" line. Rabid fans everywhere going crazy thinking it's their team.

 

 

Maybe the Twins and Brewers can go in together on Cole. Negotiate some kind of shared custody thing and someone can shuttle him back and forth between Minneapolis and Milwaukee. If he's a good boy maybe once a month he gets to stop at the Wisconsin Dells?

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Ah yes, the classic "mystery team" line. Rabid fans everywhere going crazy thinking it's their team.

 

 

The mystery team is Boras' burner phone. 

[nicksaviking]

 

The mystery team is Boras' burner phone. 

 

As long as it's not the White Sox.

[Vanimal46]

I’m going to start a band called Jon Heyman’s Mystery Team.

 

What kind of music are we going to play? Can’t tell you. It’s a mystery.

 

Where are we going to play? Not sure yet... that’s definitely a mystery.

[sweetmusicviola16]

I'll up my offers. Ryu, 3/66 Bumgarner 4/80 I have Ryu getting the higher AAV as I'm more comfrotable with the shorter deal. I'm not going with longer deals for either. 

 

Cole I'll up to a 7/280 instead of an 8/280. On an 8 year I'll go 8/302.

 

Here's the signings I actually predict we do: Tehran 2/25 and Wood 1/7

 

If our FO was really serious about a front end SP they would have went 5/125 on Wheeler. They knew full well that the 5/100 wasn't even close. You aren't getting the guy you want with less money and a lack of preference of where the player wants to play at.

[tony&rodney]

 

I'll up my offers. Ryu, 3/66 Bumgarner 4/80 I have Ryu getting the higher AAV as I'm more comfrotable with the shorter deal. I'm not going with longer deals for either. 

 

Cole I'll up to a 7/280 instead of an 8/280. On an 8 year I'll go 8/302.

 

Here's the signings I actually predict we do: Tehran 2/25 and Wood 1/7

 

 

If any of these happen - good, especially Cole. Still opposed to trading until FA options are exhausted. 

However, the Twins should be talking to everyone. 

[nicksaviking]

I know the mystery team is a bunch of malarkey, but didn't the Twins turn out to be the Mystery team for Ohtani and Darvish?

 

Maybe Boras gives out a "Mystery Team" punch card and after five times volunteering for the gig you get a 5% discount on your next 1st round draft pick?

[Tomj14]

 

Bumgarner is clearly a big name still, but I don't know that these guys are really in a different pitching tier than Nolasco/Santana/Lynn where at the time of their signings. This crop will surely cost more, but as far as talent and prior years' production, they all seem to be in about the same class.

lets not get too crazy, those three each had one really good season prior to coming to the Twins, Madison has had a bunch and Ryu two and he is actually pretty close to those three.

[Tomj14]

I have no limit on Cole, whatever it takes.

agree with most on 3 years for Ryu between 66 - 75.

I would go up to 5 for Madison, at 115, would prefer less.

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

As long as it's not the White Sox.

 

Truthfully, the only teams I can think of with the funds to be a real mystery team would be based in Chicago...

 

I'd like to believe it's us, but I know better. More likely is that it's just hype to drive up the price. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I’m going to start a band called Jon Heyman’s Mystery Team.

What kind of music are we going to play? Can’t tell you. It’s a mystery.

Where are we going to play? Not sure yet... that’s definitely a mystery.

 

I suppose the instruments played will be a mystery too. 

 

[Vanimal46]

 

I suppose the instruments played will be a mystery too. 

 

We don't know yet! 

[nicksaviking]

 

lets not get too crazy, those three each had one really good season prior to coming to the Twins, Madison has had a bunch and Ryu two and he is actually pretty close to those three.

 

Right but if you're paying for projection and not past performance, and just using the past performance as a data point, Bumgarner's most recent year and the direction he's trending doesn't really make it appear that he's a step up from the percieved lesser pitchers.

[nicksaviking]

 

Truthfully, the only teams I can think of with the funds to be a real mystery team would be based in Chicago...

 

I'd like to believe it's us, but I know better. More likely is that it's just hype to drive up the price. 

 

I could see the White Sox poking around since they've been tied to the other pitchers, but despite all of their bluster and fancy Chicago money, the biggest contract they've ever handed out is still Jose Abreu's original 6/68M deal. They make the Twins look like highfalutin* big rollers.

 

*Huh, had no idea the proper spelling was as one word

[terrydactyls]

I would offer Cole $45 (that's right - no zeroes) a year for ten years because it doesn't matter. He isn't coming to Minnesota.

[hugelycat]

 

Maybe the Twins and Brewers can go in together on Cole. Negotiate some kind of shared custody thing and someone can shuttle him back and forth between Minneapolis and Milwaukee. If he's a good boy maybe once a month he gets to stop at the Wisconsin Dells?

If there's a Twins/Brewers World Series, he can even start for both teams! Maybe even pitch to himself when he comes up in the order, Bugs Bunny style.

[goulik]

 

If there's a Twins/Brewers World Series, he can even start for both teams! Maybe even pitch to himself when he comes up in the order, Bugs Bunny style.

Might only go for 4 innings though...

[goulik]

 

I'll up my offers. Ryu, 3/66 Bumgarner 4/80 I have Ryu getting the higher AAV as I'm more comfrotable with the shorter deal. I'm not going with longer deals for either. 

 

Cole I'll up to a 7/280 instead of an 8/280. On an 8 year I'll go 8/302.

 

Here's the signings I actually predict we do: Tehran 2/25 and Wood 1/7

 

If our FO was really serious about a front end SP they would have went 5/125 on Wheeler. They knew full well that the 5/100 wasn't even close. You aren't getting the guy you want with less money and a lack of preference of where the player wants to play at.

Well, you now officially have the new high bid on Cole at 8/302! Congrats, you are the bravest among us!

[goulik]

 

I have no limit on Cole, whatever it takes.

agree with most on 3 years for Ryu between 66 - 75.

I would go up to 5 for Madison, at 115, would prefer less.

And you now have the high bid both in dollars and years on MadBum... Congrats!

[sweetmusicviola16]

 

Well, you now officially have the new high bid on Cole at 8/302! Congrats, you are the bravest among us!

yep, 40mil AAV for 7 years and Cole works for a paltry 22mil that last season if he accepts the extra season. I'm more than happy to spend Jimmy's money.

 

But it looks like tomj14 is willing to go past my offer.

[AZTwin]

Before reading this thread, I would do 8 years and 308M. I would feel pretty comfortable with it too with the current construct of the roster and potentially new tv deal in a few years?