What do we think Twins payroll REALLY will be?

[Blake]

 

I've been sniped.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs

 

*I can't believe no one has done this yet. It's like I don't know you people any more.

[Rosterman]

I alwaus laugh at payroll numbrs. Money associated with major league teams seem to be the best closed secret this side of candidates for office. Sure, we all get a figure for payroll costs. But sometimes I wonder what the real dollars are associated with this. Does the player pay, out of their salary, monies to the union for pension, insurance, and such. Does the team pay for medical insurance on top of salary, workman's comp? We know some contracts carry an insurance policy.

 

Then we wonder what a team actually spends on operations. The old 55% of payroll and 45% to operation always confuses me. Because if you suddenly jump, as the Twins have, from $90 million to $120 payroll, I don't necessarily see operatons costs jumping the same. At some point the cost of doing business stays pretty much the same with logical increases for employees.

 

And then we have the other kicker. How much do teams spend on player development. We have the numbers on hand paid out for draft picks. But how much does it cost to run Fort Myers. How much do the Twins pay to other minor league teams. What is the payroll for 150 or so players under control in the minors. What do minor league staff members actually make.

 

Income? Tickets. Media. Share in MLB revenue. Something from logos/branding & trademarks. Advertising. Names. Sponsorships. In-kind exchanges. Concessions.

 

Sometimes we hear that a profit is made. But profits can quickly turn into losses when you move things around, and sometimes one profitable part of a bigger business can offset losses in another part of a business for the betterment of the ownership.

 

What we know is winning will put butts in seats, increase viewer and listenership. You sell more jerseys, more beer, more hot dogs. Sometimes NOT selling a lot of season tickets works, as tickets are now kept off a secondary market that doesn't benefit the team. Having control of unsold tickets going into a season can be great if youa re winning and can sell those ticekts yourself for fullprice with little competition from secondary markets.

 

Looking at the Twins, as an asset that continues to grow (what were they worth when Target Field was built...something like $595 million or so). Are they NOW a billion-dollar worth team, with little or no debt - I understand - as they have managed to pay that down, if not toally off, in their shared expense. We know the player's union likes to say players deserve a percentage of revenue for the sport as a whole, which quickly goes out the window on the day a contract is signed and new media contracts are signed and ticket prices set.

 

Yes. The Twins can easily spend $120. They should spend $130 million. They can spend $150 million and not take a hit. Heck, they probably could go higher and higher if they THINK they can actually field a team that not only wins the division but can go deeper into the playoffs. Spending isn't always the key to sucess. It is the quality of the players. Investing in the future. Worrying about the cost of keeping the future in place.

 

$130 million in 2020. They still want to pisition themselves to make money, after three years of making money.

 

[pierre75275]

I dont think payroll is necessarily indicitive of success but I think they are looking at 135 to 140

[Oldgoat_MN]

Let's look at the recent history of Falvine. Everyone knew we had an issue with starting pitching last off-season. Everyone.

Patrick Corbin went to the Nationals, a team who had just lost Bryce Harper. There was little reason to believe that everything was going to fall together and the Nationals would do what they did, win the World Series.

Corbin signed for 6 years, $140M. This year he got $12.5M. The last year of the contract has $10M of his salary deferred.

It's likely any team could have gotten him for 6 years, $150M if you paid him $25M per year.

 

As far as I heard, we never spoke to him and got Martin Perez.

 

I take the under.

 

[The Wise One]

 

Let's look at the recent history of Falvine. Everyone knew we had an issue with starting pitching last off-season. Everyone.

Patrick Corbin went to the Nationals, a team who had just lost Bryce Harper. There was little reason to believe that everything was going to fall together and the Nationals would do what they did, win the World Series.

Corbin signed for 6 years, $140M. This year he got $12.5M. The last year of the contract has $10M of his salary deferred.

It's likely any team could have gotten him for 6 years, $150M if you paid him $25M per year.

 

As far as I heard, we never spoke to him and got Martin Perez.

 

I take the under.

In your mind any team could have got Corbin,  but not too much was published what Corbin was looking for. or thought   The FO is pretty tight lipped about who they have talked to, much like many FO. Certainty about what transpired is limited to what team and how much  the contract was for

[The Wise One]

The Twins revenue for 2018 was 268 million. The Twins had about 300,000 more fans in 2019,  The revenue per fan was $43. That is about another 13 million in revenue for last year. 140 million would be a reasonable expectation. If the attendance numbers climb, they can add payroll midyear

 

Non player costs are not fixed. New titles, new raises. Coaches will likely get raises to keep theme here, Tons of equipment purchases have to be paid for. New trainers, Enough nickles and dimes you get a buck. No player salaries go up, scouting expenses go up, nothing much ever goes down in price.

[Mike Sixel]

In your mind any team could have got Corbin, but not too much was published what Corbin was looking for. or thought The FO is pretty tight lipped about who they have talked to, much like many FO. Certainty about what transpired is limited to what team and how much the contract was for

It doesn't matter who they talk to, it matters what they do. They needed pitching last year, and signed Perez.

[Mike Sixel]

The Twins revenue for 2018 was 268 million. The Twins had about 300,000 more fans in 2019, The revenue per fan was $43. That is about another 13 million in revenue for last year. 140 million would be a reasonable expectation. If the attendance numbers climb, they can add payroll midyear

 

Non player costs are not fixed. New titles, new raises. Coaches will likely get raises to keep theme here, Tons of equipment purchases have to be paid for. New trainers, Enough nickles and dimes you get a buck. No player salaries go up, scouting expenses go up, nothing much ever goes down in price.

There is a zero percent chance their coaches make tens of millions more or less if the revenues change. Coaches just aren't paid that much. Not even close.

[USAFChief]

 

48-52% is the number that the Players Association wants. If they players are good with it, I'm good with it. 

Source?

[USAFChief]

 

$136,292,374.06.

 

Price is Right rules.

In that case, $1.

 

and that concludes the bids. 

[Seth Stohs]

 

Source?

 

 

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/2/21/17035624/mlb-revenue-sharing-owners-players-free-agency-rob-manfred

 

 

In December 2015, MLBPA executive director Tony Clark told the L.A. Times that the players’ share of revenue was “as close to 50 percent as it has been in a long time.” A year later, upon negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement that took effect in 2017, Clark said his expectation was that the split would “stay right in that general area,” remarking that the union “wouldn’t have agreed to the deal otherwise.” A 50–50 split seems to be the target that the Players Association has set for itself.

 

[Twins33]

135 seems reasonable due to all of their needs. Hopefully higher due to Cole or Stras.

[Battle ur tail off]

My guess?

 

100-115 million. It should be pushed to 130-150, but will really surprise me if it does. Basically, I will believe it when I see it. 

 

 

[howeda7]

$120-$130. Hopefully over $130, but I'm guessing closer to $120.

[Jham]

lower than last year. we'll be willing to go higher, but strike out on big free agents. then we'll say we have payroll to add salary through trades. then we'll say no one trades before the deadline. Then we'll complain that the guy we wanted was traded before the deadline. then we'll complain about the prospect price. then we'll trade for cheap rentals. rinse, repeat.

[The Wise One]

 

It doesn't matter who they talk to, it matters what they do. They needed pitching last year, and signed Perez.

Can't argue that they needed a pitcher. You also can't argue they should have signed Corbin because you have no clue the discussions. 6/140. Lot of money to put up for a pitcher that has had 1 TJ and one season with a Bwar greater than 4

[The Wise One]

 

There is a zero percent chance their coaches make tens of millions more or less if the revenues change. Coaches just aren't paid that much. Not even close.

I did not say 10's of millions, your words, not mine. 13 million total is what I said. Sorry I forgot to say the 50% rule. 6-7 million for a player, 6 to 7 for the team expenses. If you look at where the money goes, you can come up with  6-7 million  very easily. Do you think the Dynamic Duo did not get significant raises with their new titles to keep them from jumping ship?  The places I have worked, never a minimum wage job,  gave me cost of living raises and tenure raises. Linkedin lists the Twins as employers of 1000-5000 people. A raise of 1000 gets you 1 to 5 million. In terms of what coaches on mlb teams make. An old article. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-coaching-salaries-on-the-farm-bullpen-scatalogy-cards-step-more/ shows that life is good as a coach. I bet the newbies started on the lower. end. I bet they are going up. 7 coaches can take a lot in a raise from the bottom to the middle. Indeed 6-7 million can go quickly

[Mike Sixel]

 

I did not say 10's of millions, your words, not mine. 13 million total is what I said. Sorry I forgot to say the 50% rule. 6-7 million for a player, 6 to 7 for the team expenses. If you look at where the money goes, you can come up with  6-7 million  very easily. Do you think the Dynamic Duo did not get significant raises with their new titles to keep them from jumping ship?  The places I have worked, never a minimum wage job,  gave me cost of living raises and tenure raises. Linkedin lists the Twins as employers of 1000-5000 people. A raise of 1000 gets you 1 to 5 million. In terms of what coaches on mlb teams make. An old article. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-coaching-salaries-on-the-farm-bullpen-scatalogy-cards-step-more/ shows that life is good as a coach. I bet the newbies started on the lower. end. I bet they are going up. 7 coaches can take a lot in a raise from the bottom to the middle. Indeed 6-7 million can go quickly

 

I think I, and every national writer, don't agree that if the Twins payroll goes from 100 million to 140 million, that their off field expensies also increase by 40 million. It isn't realistic at all. If it was, then they'd fire a bunch of off field people when their revenue drops, just like they do players. 

[The Wise One]

 

I think I, and every national writer, don't agree that if the Twins payroll goes from 100 million to 140 million, that their off field expensies also increase by 40 million. It isn't realistic at all. If it was, then they'd fire a bunch of off field people when their revenue drops, just like they do players. 

Operations budget does not have to equal the mlb payroll.  It may exceed it on a given year.From Forbes  Payroll was 128 million when the revenue was listed at 268 million. Profit was listed as 16 million. Operations then cost 124 million. Payroll went down last year. There is no indication that payroll went anywhere but up.  There is no 40 million raise proposed from the 124 figure With the tech toys purchased, operations would have gone up on a one time basis. . I do not know where you would have got th3 40 million figure from. Please talk to that person

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I did not say 10's of millions, your words, not mine. 13 million total is what I said. Sorry I forgot to say the 50% rule. 6-7 million for a player, 6 to 7 for the team expenses. If you look at where the money goes, you can come up with 6-7 million very easily. Do you think the Dynamic Duo did not get significant raises with their new titles to keep them from jumping ship? The places I have worked, never a minimum wage job, gave me cost of living raises and tenure raises. Linkedin lists the Twins as employers of 1000-5000 people. A raise of 1000 gets you 1 to 5 million. In terms of what coaches on mlb teams make. An old article. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sunday-notes-coaching-salaries-on-the-farm-bullpen-scatalogy-cards-step-more/ shows that life is good as a coach. I bet the newbies started on the lower. end. I bet they are going up. 7 coaches can take a lot in a raise from the bottom to the middle. Indeed 6-7 million can go quickly

https://www.mlb.com/twins/team/front-office

 

Here’s the FO directory it’s about 250 people. Non- player Labor isn’t the major expense of operations. Operating the field is. Power, renovations, etc.

 

Also, The Minnesota Twins are a privately held company not held accountable to GAAP or the SEC. 16 mil is an estimate put out by a third party or the Twins.

 

Further, the Pohlad companies owns part of Fox Sports North. Attributing profits to the Twins and to the Pohlads as a result of the Twins are different things.

 

All this to say, player personnel at 50% +/- 5% of revenue seems like there’s still some significant profit to be had. We don’t know the costs or the full revenue picture. I’m still sticking with around 140

[Major League Ready]

 

Operations budget does not have to equal the mlb payroll.  It may exceed it on a given year.From Forbes  Payroll was 128 million when the revenue was listed at 268 million. Profit was listed as 16 million. Operations then cost 124 million. Payroll went down last year. There is no indication that payroll went anywhere but up.  There is no 40 million raise proposed from the 124 figure With the tech toys purchased, operations would have gone up on a one time basis. . I do not know where you would have got th3 40 million figure from. Please talk to that person

 

You are failing to include payroll taxes and benefits in payroll. (approx $15M)

[akmanak]

Laughable. Mayve 105 million tops. Folks the Twins are not going to spend money until they sell the team.