Help is on the Way! Twins Sign Matt Belisle!

[h2oface]

This is the FO looking to the future? This makes me sick.

[USAFChief]

 

Well he's certainly old enough. I think that's him there second in from the left.

 

 

We should've signed the guy three from the left. 

[yarnivek1972]

Has Magill even pitched in June?

How about a pitcher that is reliable so the Twins can give a little breather to Hildenberger, Pressly and Reed? The only plausible conclusion is that the Twins plan to use him higher leverage situations. He won’t be at “the end” of the pen. That’s Magill and Rogers. He’ll be in the mix in the 6th, 7th and 8th with the aforementioned guys needing rest. Smoke and mirrors only works for so long. The guy just doesn’t possess quality stuff.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Has Magill even pitched in June?

Good catch. 3 innings on June 5 (doubleheader day).

 

Seems unlikely they are signing Belisle to take that role...

[jud6312]

 

Good catch. 3 innings on June 5 (doubleheader day).

Seems unlikely they are signing Belisle to take that role...

I wish they would. I'd rather see if the 28-year-old is capable of more rather than reinforce that the 38-year-old isn't.

[jorgenswest]

This move spotlights the organizations ineptitude at developing a bullpen.

 

Is it an inability to recognize an arm that will be a successful reliever? They certainly have tried to invest in the draft.

 

Is it an inability to develop a bullpen arm? We have seen success in the minors not translate to the majors.

 

Is it poor use of those arms at the major league level?

 

Is it over reliance on a few arms that will not hold up over the course of the season?

 

Belisle is not a fix or even a band aid. At best he is an arm that the organization can give Molitor without worrying about about the long term impact of over use.

 

Falvey must solve this problem or the Twins won’t be successful. A good bullpen is going to give a team a positive record in those close games and that is not a margin the Twins can afford to lose.

 

It might take a full overhaul to turn things around from recognition to development to the manager.

[jun]

 

Regardless of how permanent this is, why make the move at all? Cleveland is desperate for bullpen help, even signing the rotting corpse of Oliver Perez... He couldn't make Cleveland's roster, but is good enough for us?

Just to be fair, Oliver Perez has been pretty good for the Indians. 3.2 IP 2 hits 4 strikeouts 0 ERA.

[gil4]

 

I predict that Dozier will start one of his patented hot streaks today, and we can forever debate if the two things are somehow related in any way.

So you're saying just watching Belisle pitch will make our hitters start hitting?  I guess it seemed to work for the batters he has faced this year... OK, cheap shot not based in fact.  He had barely pitched and hasn't been horrible, and the ERA of 5.06 is probably more SSS than actual performance.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Again, Cleveland is desperate for anyone with a pulse to pitch in their bullpen. Yet Belisle couldn't make that team. And somehow he's going to slot into our bullpen and most likely pitch the 7/8th inning.

"This don't make no sense."

 

Where do you get the sense he's going to pitch in the 7th/8th inning? I've seen nothing indicating his role. If he pitches in that inning he'll have earned it in lower-leverage situations.

 

Alternative view: Cleveland has so many pen spots going poorly that they can't afford to stash a guy Like Belisle at the end of their pen (like the Twins did with Hildy early in the season). He's expendable and they're at "throw things at the wall to see what happens" panic-level now.

 

Not saying that view is right but there's any number of reasons that Cleveland might be blowing up its pen. You can be sure that if the Twins pen was falling apart, a guy like Duke might get cut so they can bring up a young arm to stop the bleeding. Luckily, the Twins have been an average pen (#13/30 in an ESPN thingy today) so they've worked through some struggles and not panicked.

[ThejacKmp]

 

No reason in modern MLB to have a reliever go a week between outings, there are plenty of relief innings to around. Especially in the Twins pen, it's not like we have 3-4 shutdown options at the top who need to soak up all the innings.

I just don't see the point in investing innings in a guy at this point unless you think he can help you later in the season in a more important role.

 

Matt Magill pitched 5/29, 6/5 and not since then. So the Twins are already doing it. My silver lining for this (again, I don't think it's a great move, I just don't think it's disastrously inexplicable) is that perhaps the Twins are going to start using Magill more often, spreading out the workload for Reed/Pressley/Hildy. He may turn back into a pumpkin but he's had some nice K numbers in the minors and is only 28 so perhaps he's found something. I'd like to find out and maybe Belisle is part of that?

[yarnivek1972]

Where do you get the sense he's going to pitch in the 7th/8th inning? I've seen nothing indicating his role. If he pitches in that inning he'll have earned it in lower-leverage situations.

 

Alternative view: Cleveland has so many pen spots going poorly that they can't afford to stash a guy Like Belisle at the end of their pen (like the Twins did with Hildy early in the season). He's expendable and they're at "throw things at the wall to see what happens" panic-level now.

 

Not saying that view is right but there's any number of reasons that Cleveland might be blowing up its pen. You can be sure that if the Twins pen was falling apart, a guy like Duke might get cut so they can bring up a young arm to stop the bleeding. Luckily, the Twins have been an average pen (#13/30 in an ESPN thingy today) so they've worked through some struggles and not panicked.

 

I don’t know about 7th or 8th exclusively, but I’ll wager 6th, 7th or possibly the 8th in the mix with Reed, Pressly and Hildenberger. Magill and Rogers are the tail of the bullpen. I don’t figure this move changes that. Duke is the # 1 loogy. Molitor will use Belisle in higher leverage situations than Magill and Rogers because of what he did last year. Maybe even higher than Hildenberger. That is simply the way he manages.

[TheLeviathan]

Do we start planning the parade route now?

Some posters here have had their lawn chairs set up for years....you’re behind the times.

 

Busenitz needs to find some incriminating pictures. Or he’s in witness protection. Otherwise this is bananas.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Actually, the batters do sometimes change in the late innings in low leverage. Pinch hitting for regulars just to give them a rest, letting pitchers bat for themselves (Belisle was in the NL). And approach definitely changes too.

And Belisle didn't even have the peripherals to support those numbers. His FIP wasn't bad but it was basically a full run higher than his ERA those 2 years.

He wasn't necessarily bad, but it's a bit of a stretch to call those years "elite" for him. If they were in any way "elite", he wouldn't have been on a 1 year, $2 mil deal with the Twins.

 

Not sure you’re right in saying he was facing guys in low-leverage situations.

 

2015
Belisle had 2/3 of his opportunities were when the score was within two runs. If you extend that to his team being anywhere from -2 to +4 (teams tend to trot out capable relievers in that range, sneaking in bad guys down three but not playing with fire at 4 runs or less above) that number is up to 85%. So while he wasn’t a closer or elite set-up man, he pitched meaningful innings when you’d expect batters to be playing “normally”.

 

As far as inning goes, he only pitched in the 5th or 6th inning five times out of 34 appearances and four of those were close games. He pitched most often in the 7th or 8th and seems to have been a solid setup man.

 

2016
More correct here. Belisle had half of his 40 appearances when the score was -2 to +2. The other half were in low leverage situations. He pitched much more regularly in the 4th to 6th innings (about 40% the time). That said, 2016 was the rare decent Nationals pen as they had some proven arms in Teinen, Kelly, Papelbon, Solis and Felipe Vazquez in the pen. So perhaps it’s not surprising that he pitched in lower-leverage situations and was more of a 2018-Taylor-Rogers type. And again, half of the time in close situations suggests he wasn’t a long-man mopping up innings.

 

Elite is incorrect and overstated, you're right. But those two seasons are some really nice numbers and they're back-to-back. I don't think it's a stretch to think he might have something else left. Depends how they use him; we should wait before we riot.

 

EDIT: Looked into 2016 a bit further. He started out the year getting 7th and 8th inning games that were relatively close but then hit the DL for 6 weeks. When he came back he seemed to have been passed by a guy or two but still pitched meaningful innings. He really started pitching much earlier when the contending Nationals traded for Melancon and Rzepczynksi at the deadline. So perhaps 2016 lower-leverage innings is more the result of being with a better team than anything else. FWIW, his ERA was pretty steadily around 2.00 throughout the season.

[Platoon]

So you're saying just watching Belisle pitch will make our hitters start hitting? I guess it seemed to work for the batters he has faced this year... OK, cheap shot not based in fact. He had barely pitched and hasn't been horrible, and the ERA of 5.06 is probably more SSS than actual performance.

It's not just Twins hitters. Watching him pitch makes ME think I can hit MLB pitching.

[mlhouse]

Pathetic. 

 

 Alan Busenitz has a 0.38 ERA in Rochester with 28 strikeouts in 24 innings.

 

John Curtiss has a 1.61. ERA in Rochester with 31 strikeouts in 22 innings.  

 

Luke Bard has a 2.82 ERA in Rochester with 19 strikeouts in 17 innings.

 

The mighty Twins bring in a 38 year old.  The fact of the matter is, neither Busenitz, Curtiss, or Bard are spring chickens anymore.  If they are ever going to have a chance to make it the time to take a look is now.  In fact, for Busenitz and Bard at 27 years of age, the time has probably already passed.  Bard's chance was getting picked in the Rule 5 draft and getting out of an organization that does not promote its own prospects and probably the truth is none of them have the skills to make it.

 

BUT, I bet if Luke Bard or John Curtiss was a player that moved through another organization and after a bit of trial at the MLB level fizzled out and hten was waived, THE TWINS WOULD BE ALL OVER THEM.

 

[ThejacKmp]

 

I don’t know about 7th or 8th exclusively, but I’ll wager 6th, 7th or possibly the 8th in the mix with Reed, Pressly and Hildenberger. Magill and Rogers are the tail of the bullpen. I don’t figure this move changes that. Duke is the # 1 loogy. Molitor will use Belisle in higher leverage situations than Magill and Rogers because of what he did last year. Maybe even higher than Hildenberger. That is simply the way he manages.

 

Maybe. This seems pretty baseless, it's just your opinion man.

 

I could see him being ahead of Magill but I think he's behind Rogers to start. The difference is that Molitor trusts him as a vet (and a guy who helped the Twins last year) and if he pitches well early, he may move up to more meaningful innings. But he'll have to earn that role almost certainly. Molitor isn't an idiot, despite what the TD boards claim.

[USAFChief]

 

Where do you get the sense he's going to pitch in the 7th/8th inning? I've seen nothing indicating his role. If he pitches in that inning he'll have earned it in lower-leverage situations.

 

Alternative view: Cleveland has so many pen spots going poorly that they can't afford to stash a guy Like Belisle at the end of their pen (like the Twins did with Hildy early in the season). He's expendable and they're at "throw things at the wall to see what happens" panic-level now.

 

Not saying that view is right but there's any number of reasons that Cleveland might be blowing up its pen. You can be sure that if the Twins pen was falling apart, a guy like Duke might get cut so they can bring up a young arm to stop the bleeding. Luckily, the Twins have been an average pen (#13/30 in an ESPN thingy today) so they've worked through some struggles and not panicked.

That strikes me as what Cleveland did.

 

The pen was falling apart, so they ejected what they viewed as the weakest link.

 

Usually, the simplest explanation is the one to default to.

[yarnivek1972]

Maybe. This seems pretty baseless, it's just your opinion man.

 

I could see him being ahead of Magill but I think he's behind Rogers to start. The difference is that Molitor trusts him as a vet (and a guy who helped the Twins last year) and if he pitches well early, he may move up to more meaningful innings. But he'll have to earn that role almost certainly. Molitor isn't an idiot, despite what the TD boards claim.

Don’t these statements contradict each other? But it does make my point. I am saying exactly that. Molitor ALREADY has faith in Belisle. IMO he will have to fail to lose Molitor’s trust.

[by jiminy]

I liked Belisle fine last year. I certainly wasn't calling for him to be DFA'd. So why are so many people horrified he's on the roster now? It hasn't been that long. Why does everyone assume he's suddenly much worse?

[Doomtints]

The Twins have a really good bullpen. I'm not sure what this move accomplishes.

[Doomtints]

 

Where do you get the sense he's going to pitch in the 7th/8th inning? I've seen nothing indicating his role. If he pitches in that inning he'll have earned it in lower-leverage situations.

 

Belisle will have the very important role of being the #13/#14 pitcher.

 

Ahem.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I liked Belisle fine last year. I certainly wasn't calling for him to be DFA'd. So why are so many people horrified he's on the roster now? It hasn't been that long. Why does everyone assume he's suddenly much worse?

Not only did we not re-sign him (despite needing a lot of relievers), Belisle failed to get a MLB contract this past winter. And cleared waivers a month ago and spent a week at home before accepting a minor league assignment with Cleveland.

[Thrylos]

 

The Twins have a really good bullpen. I'm not sure what this move accomplishes.

 

From the AP.

 

Twins relievers rank 21st in the major leagues with a 4.15 ERA.

 

Really good it is not, it is not even mediocre.  It is pretty bad.  Improvement from awful, but still....

 

(Belisle's ERA is higher than that btw, but still...)

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I look at it as its better to have Molitor abuse a veteran arm - Belisle was pretty good in the closer role last year - although not sure what Busenitz has to do to get get a call-up.

FRE is the closer. Do you put Belisle in as setup man?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

MLB deal for Belisle. Would rather see the younger guys. Although Petit was redundant and not playing anyway.

From the Twins release, quote:

The problem? He'll need to leave his truck and most of his possessions behind in Detroit when he travels with the team to Cleveland on Thursday night.

 

"I've been [staying] at an Extended Stay America," Belisle said of his living situation the past two months. "One part of it's great, when you have a transition like that, it makes you appreciative for what you had. It makes you look at what's in front of you. It also simplifies your life.

 

"Everything I need is in that pickup, but I can [travel]. I didn't have any excess and I didn't want more excess." End quote

 

Oops, it was supposed to be about the contract... quote:

A day after requesting and receiving his release from the Indians, Belisle signed an MLB deal with the Twins on Tuesday, capping off what was a whirlwind 24 hours for the veteran reliever. End quote

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/twins-sign-reliever-matt-belisle/c-280902454

[gil4]

 

 

At least you stored it appropriately.

[gil4]

 

It's not just Twins hitters. Watching him pitch makes ME think I can hit MLB pitching.

I stumbled across a YouTube video titled "Think You Can Hit a Big League Pitcher?" It was video from a GoPro mounted on a catcher for a bullpen session with Dillon Gee. I was ready to grab a bat.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Don’t these statements contradict each other? But it does make my point. I am saying exactly that. Molitor ALREADY has faith in Belisle. IMO he will have to fail to lose Molitor’s trust.

 

I think he wants to have faith in him and is predisposed to have faith in him (kind of like how we all probably feel safer with an older doctor than a young gun with the fanciest training) but he still won't just give him the role. The Twins pen has set roles and they're not going to disrupt that for a guy they got off waivers, no matter the history. 

[ThejacKmp]

 

That strikes me as what Cleveland did.

 

The pen was falling apart, so they ejected what they viewed as the weakest link.

 

Usually, the simplest explanation is the one to default to.

 

Yeah. But I think if they had a decent pen, they might have stuck with Matt a bit longer. He wasn't pitching all that badly and the sample size was tiny. But sometimes you need change just to have change. And no one is likely to miss Belisle terribly.

[Rosterman]

Why Belisle instead of any of the youngsters on the 40-man, be it Busenitz, Curtis or Moya. You waste a 25-man spot and a 40-man spot. Seems to be too many of these types taking up space...unless the bodies can produce and bring back at least a low-level prospect in a light draft season during the trade dedline.