Hanley Ramirez DFA'd

[Mike Sixel]

There is a thread on this already.... I'll repeat what I said there.

 

He's not good. He is a terrible fielder. He doesn't run. He can barely hit. Why?

[mikelink45]

Why would we want someone who is performing so poorly that the Red Sox will eat his massive salary.  Here is a quote from ESPN. "The Red Sox still owe him about $15 million for the rest of the season (no team is going to pick up the salary), so they'll be eating that no matter what. But what they really want to avoid is paying Ramirez $22 million in 2019."

 

No, no, no.  

[USAFChief]

There is a thread on this already.... I'll repeat what I said there.

 

He's not good. He is a terrible fielder. He doesn't run. He can barely hit. Why?

Even if you believe his current. 708 OPS is indicative of his ability, that is currently higher than both Grossman and Sano, among others.

 

I don't know if it makes sense, but for the MLB minimum, on a team desperately in need of bats--particularly RH bats--its not the worst idea in the world either.

 

The division is sitting there for the taking. Do SOMEthing ferpetesake.

[Mike Sixel]

Old, bad, players that can't field or run are not what I'm hoping they do.

 

An easy move is to call up Gordon....

[nicksaviking]

Being a veteran doesn't automatically bestow one with leadership qualities.

 

Besides, the Twins need to stop seeking out marginally capable vets who'll be gone in a year or two for leadership. They need the guys who'll be here long term to step up to those roles. Rosario, Kepler, Berrios, Buxton and company need to start shouldering those responsibilities.

[Riverbrian]

 

Why would we want someone who is performing so poorly that the Red Sox will eat his massive salary.  Here is a quote from ESPN. "The Red Sox still owe him about $15 million for the rest of the season (no team is going to pick up the salary), so they'll be eating that no matter what. But what they really want to avoid is paying Ramirez $22 million in 2019."

 

No, no, no.  

 

Actually... He has cooled off but his overall numbers are not in the "performing so poorly" catagory. 

 

Boston had to either send someone down to the minors or release someone to make room for Pedroia. If you look at their roster... they are deep. They got that good problem to have thing going on. 

 

There isn't an obvious alternative choice to send to AAA. They have 3 catchers who are all out of options and would be snatched up immediately. Holt and Nunez are capable backups at multiple positions and they are pretty solid 1-9. 

 

I'm not sure it is correct to assume that this decision was a black and white he can't play anymore decision. I bet there are other factors... such as that 22 million dollar vesting option that would trigger if he got 300 more AB's. This vesting option would not carry over to his new club. 

 

Nobody is going to trade for him and take over the contract so Boston will eat the rest of this year. 

 

This means that another team can pick him up for the minimum. If you look at the production with the minimum price tag it becomes a strong consideration. 

 

In my opinion... the Twins have no choice but to strongly consider Ramirez and should be in "what do we do with him" due diligence right now. Then they gotta get prepared to be more attractive than other suitors. 

 

I realize that some people don't like the thought of that but the Twins have built this lineup around Dozier, Buxton and Sano and when those three are not getting it done... they gotta address the right side somehow in case it doesn't fix itself.

 

Hanley might end up being that gift they can't turn down. They got to find someone who can put the ball in play. 

 

I think they have no choice. 

[Mike Sixel]

Actually... He has cooled off but his overall numbers are not in the "performing so poorly" catagory.

 

Boston had to either send someone down to the minors or release someone to make room for Pedroia. If you look at their roster... they are deep. They got that good problem to have thing going on.

 

There isn't an obvious alternative choice to send to AAA. They have 3 catchers who are all out of options and would be snatched up immediately. Holt and Nunez are capable backups at multiple positions and they are pretty solid 1-9.

 

I'm not sure it is correct to assume that this decision was a black and white he can't play anymore decision. I bet there are other factors... such as that 22 million dollar vesting option that would trigger if he got 300 more AB's. This vesting option would not carry over to his new club.

 

Nobody is going to trade for him and take over the contract so Boston will eat the rest of this year.

 

This means that another team can pick him up for the minimum. If you look at the production with the minimum price tag it becomes a strong consideration.

 

In my opinion... the Twins have no choice but to strongly consider Ramirez and should be in "what do we do with him" due diligence right now. Then they gotta get prepared to be more attractive than other suitors.

 

I realize that some people don't like the thought of that but the Twins have built this lineup around Dozier, Buxton and Sano and when those three are not getting it done... they gotta address the right side somehow in case it doesn't fix itself.

 

Hanley might end up being that gift they can't turn down. They got to find someone who can put the ball in play.

 

I think they have no choice.

They could deal some of that super deep minor league talent for an actual good player.

[Riverbrian]

 

They could deal some of that super deep minor league talent for an actual good player.

 

They could and probably should. 

 

They could also sign Ramirez and deal some of that super deep minor league talent for an actual good player. 

 

Straight up: Would you trade Grossman at $2M per for Ramirez at 600K? 

[jokin]

 

They could and probably should. 

 

They could also sign Ramirez and deal some of that super deep minor league talent for an actual good player. 

 

Straight up: Would you trade Grossman at $2M per for Ramirez at 600K? 

+1

[ewen21]

 

I didn't realize both guys started their career in 2018. The more you know!

Shame we don't have more data though.

i am not advocating for Hanley, but if you want to look back at his Boston numbers alone and stack them up against Grossman's career feel free to do that.  Then also understand that Ramirez was the better hitter not only this year, but for the last four years

[TheLeviathan]

 

i am not advocating for Hanley, but if you want to look back at his Boston numbers alone and stack them up against Grossman's career feel free to do that.  Then also understand that Ramirez was the better hitter not only this year, but for the last four years

 

At best he's been slightly better.  His wRC+ has been worse and he's been a worse fielder....as hard as that is to believe.

 

He's also older, less versatile, and been rumored to be a cancer in the clubhouse for years.

[ashbury]

What do you all think? We need a vet with some leadership qualities

Leadership? Dombrowski phrased it as delicately as he could, when he stated that his manager told him removing Ramirez wouldn't harm clubhouse chemistry.

[Mike Sixel]

They could and probably should.

 

They could also sign Ramirez and deal some of that super deep minor league talent for an actual good player.

 

Straight up: Would you trade Grossman at $2M per for Ramirez at 600K?

No

[Riverbrian]

 

No

 

I can respect that. 

 

I think we need the bat but he's got some quirks. 

 

I'm not going to get into the defensive discussion... I haven't seen enough of him recently to have an opinion. However... I think it's a defensive red flag when a guy goes from starting major league SS to rumored liability 1B in a rather quick time. 

 

I'm not going to get into a clubhouse cancer/leader discussion because I don't know... how could I (or anyone) but if he is a cancer... he's been a cancer on some winning teams so it must not be terminal. 

 

I'm strictly... We need a RH Bat and we need one right now and if Mauer is healing slow there is technically a spot to work with. I'd be a lot more interested if he still had a little 3B ability left in the tank and even more interested than that if he didn't completely fall apart during his time out in the OF. 

 

One thing is for sure... I don't like being in the position of actually feeling like we need Ramirez to fill (a rather large) hole. And I have that feeling. 

 

 

[ewen21]

 

At best he's been slightly better.  His wRC+ has been worse and he's been a worse fielder....as hard as that is to believe.

 

He's also older, less versatile, and been rumored to be a cancer in the clubhouse for years.

I didn't say I was advocating for him and I was not talking about defense.  I speaking strictly of his hitting.

 

You know Ramirez is a better hitter so we are good now

 

 

[USAFChief]

I don’t understand complaining about the lineup on one hand, and turning up our collective noses at potential improvements on the other.

 

Short of Sano/Buxton magically turning a corner, where are we expecting longer and better lineups to come from?

[KirbyDome89]

 

I don’t understand complaining about the lineup on one hand, and turning up our collective noses at potential improvements on the other.

Short of Sano/Buxton magically turning a corner, where are we expecting longer and better lineups to come from?

Nowhere unless a trade is made for an actual upgrade.

 

IMO these proposed improvements aren't actually an improvement. It's trading one set of warts for another. It also seems like the warts the Twins would be bringing in are worse than what they'd give up. Ramirez, Carter, ect seem to be benefitting from backup QB effect. 

[Winston Smith]

Trade Hughes for him. If he fails you aren't out any more money than you were going to pay Hughes if he hits ok you could maybe flip him at the deadline. Hughes = nothing in return for cost, Hanley = a maybe something. Maybe something > nothing.

[mikelink45]

 

Actually... He has cooled off but his overall numbers are not in the "performing so poorly" catagory. 

 

Boston had to either send someone down to the minors or release someone to make room for Pedroia. If you look at their roster... they are deep. They got that good problem to have thing going on. 

 

There isn't an obvious alternative choice to send to AAA. They have 3 catchers who are all out of options and would be snatched up immediately. Holt and Nunez are capable backups at multiple positions and they are pretty solid 1-9. 

 

I'm not sure it is correct to assume that this decision was a black and white he can't play anymore decision. I bet there are other factors... such as that 22 million dollar vesting option that would trigger if he got 300 more AB's. This vesting option would not carry over to his new club. 

 

Nobody is going to trade for him and take over the contract so Boston will eat the rest of this year. 

 

This means that another team can pick him up for the minimum. If you look at the production with the minimum price tag it becomes a strong consideration. 

 

In my opinion... the Twins have no choice but to strongly consider Ramirez and should be in "what do we do with him" due diligence right now. Then they gotta get prepared to be more attractive than other suitors. 

 

I realize that some people don't like the thought of that but the Twins have built this lineup around Dozier, Buxton and Sano and when those three are not getting it done... they gotta address the right side somehow in case it doesn't fix itself.

 

Hanley might end up being that gift they can't turn down. They got to find someone who can put the ball in play. 

 

I think they have no choice. 

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  I consider that he has had three years with Boston and one good one.  Not enough for me to grab him.  Our needs are for quality and the future and, for me, that is not Ramirez.  But then I am seldom excited by FA and waiver grabs unless a team is desperate and lacks its own talent. 

[Brandon Warne]

 

Trade Hughes for him. If he fails you aren't out any more money than you were going to pay Hughes if he hits ok you could maybe flip him at the deadline. Hughes = nothing in return for cost, Hanley = a maybe something. Maybe something > nothing.

 

The Red Sox have no incentive to do this. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I didn't say I was advocating for him and I was not talking about defense.  I speaking strictly of his hitting.

 

You know Ramirez is a better hitter so we are good now

 

I believe wRC+ is the best measure and by that measure, he is not actually better.  

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don’t understand complaining about the lineup on one hand, and turning up our collective noses at potential improvements on the other.

Short of Sano/Buxton magically turning a corner, where are we expecting longer and better lineups to come from?

 

I would like to see them pursue upgrades.  I'm a big fan of pushing in on Realmuto. I'd call about Sisco and Susac as possible catching gambles over Wilson if Realmuto isn't possible.  (And they have former top prospect cred)

 

I'd call about Danny Valencia.

 

I'd call about Brad Miller.

 

Hanley Ramirez?  Seems like something you'll regret by July 1st.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I don’t understand complaining about the lineup on one hand, and turning up our collective noses at potential improvements on the other.

 

Short of Sano/Buxton magically turning a corner, where are we expecting longer and better lineups to come from?

to Mikes point, bringing up Gordon could improve SS fielding and hitting in one fell swoop over Ehire. Then figure out what it takes to get an improvement at catcher over Wilson. I’m not against Ramirez over Grossman entirely but I wonder if that vesting option still holds valid for the team that picks him up. If it were as simple as making sure he doesn’t hit the threshold, then why not just bench him?

[ewen21]

 

I believe wRC+ is the best measure and by that measure, he is not actually better.  

That's all well and good, but I don't know too many others who would base EVERYTHING off "wRC+"

 

Never mind that Ramirez beats him in every category, but for OBP and that is only due to walks.

 

 

[Winston Smith]

 

The Red Sox have no incentive to do this. 

Probably not. Hughes has no value and is owed more money. I don't think Hanley is worth adding something to the pot to make the deal work money wise. Afraid Hughes is 100% dead money.

[USAFChief]

to Mikes point, bringing up Gordon could improve SS fielding and hitting in one fell swoop over Ehire. Then figure out what it takes to get an improvement at catcher over Wilson. I’m not against Ramirez over Grossman entirely but I wonder if that vesting option still holds valid for the team that picks him up. If it were as simple as making sure he doesn’t hit the threshold, then why not just bench him?

I’m all for Gordon.

 

We still need a better lineup daily.

[USAFChief]

I would like to see them pursue upgrades. I'm a big fan of pushing in on Realmuto. I'd call about Sisco and Susac as possible catching gambles over Wilson if Realmuto isn't possible. (And they have former top prospect cred)

 

I'd call about Danny Valencia.

 

I'd call about Brad Miller.

 

Hanley Ramirez? Seems like something you'll regret by July 1st.

How would you regret it? He’s free. Adios Ryan LaMarre, or Gregorio Petit.

 

Adios Hanley Ramirez by June 15th if you do regret it.

[Riverbrian]

 

I wonder if that vesting option still holds valid for the team that picks him up. If it were as simple as making sure he doesn’t hit the threshold, then why not just bench him?

 

The vesting option is over with unless you trade for him and the contract. 

 

For the Red Sox... It is also about roster space. They could have simply benched him to limit his at-bats but they would have had to lose a player just for the privilege of keeping him on the bench. 

 

Pedroia coming off the DL triggered it all. 

 

 

They could have sent down Brock Holt or Jackie Bradley to AAA but again you are sending them down for roster space issues to keep a guy that you want to limit his at-bats. Rumors were that they were considering sending Swihart down who is out of options instead. 

 

They needed to make a move and eating 15 million is something the Red Sox can do and they did. 

 

Ramirez will clear and then he will decide which team to join. The Red Sox will pay him 15 million to play for someone else and it is not necessarily because Ramirez was a bad player. 

 

The Twins have to look at this. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

How would you regret it? He’s free. Adios Ryan LaMarre, or Gregorio Petit.

Adios Hanley Ramirez by June 15th if you do regret it.

 

Your mother never warned you about nothing being free?  

 

I'm all for upgrades, but Hanley Ramirez might be a toxic personality who isn't all that better with the bat, is old, and a crap defender.

 

I'd much rather call up prospects.  Or have gambled on Jose Bautista last week.  Or just about any number of things other than Hanley Ramirez.

[jorgenswest]

I don’t see the Twins trading for him so he will have to clear release waivers and become a free agent.

 

His options at that point could be the Astros who need a DH and the Rockies who need a 1B. There will be other interest. I don’t see why he would select the Twins over opportunities from the Astros or Rockies. With Mauer, Morrison and Sano his path to regular playing time is more limited.

 

Does anyone have a great enough interest that they would trade for him?